National Park Carry FAQ

How do you suppose in-park vendors will react, referring to lodges and restaurants?

Probably the same way as those outside the park. The Federal law only prohibits the park service from prohibiting firearms, not private property owners/leasee's.

If the facility is operated by the National Park Service itself, AND there is a regularly employeed NPS Employee there, firearms will be banned.

If the facility is leased or owned by a private party, that private party may ban firearms within that facility if they choose to because then it would not be the Department of the Interior banning firearms, it would be the tenants/owners of the building banning firearms.

Whatever method they chose to post such leased/privately owned buildings would have to comply with the state laws.
 
In VA a lessee can not forbid carry of weapons onto to property owned by the State. So at least in VA in National Park Facilities (owned by a public entity) you should be good to go, except restaurants that serve alcohol (for CCW). Hopefully that restriction will end this year.
 
The National Park property would not be owned by the state. The building would be leased from the Federal government, not from the State of Virginia.
 
If the building was posted as a restricted building under federal law, then carry would be prohibited, but the Federal Government has that right not a non-federal lessee. Under VA State law carry would be legal.
 
Citation to the law that would say a private party leasing a building from the Federal government cannot prohibit firearms in the building they are leasing, please?
 
I am just pointing out the VA state preemption laws that prohibit private parties from prohibiting the carry of weapons in publicly owned buildings, unless they have a specific cause such as it being a school or something of that sort. Whether such a provision would carry over to Federally owned buildings leased for private use may have to be decided by a court. In practice it may never happen because the Federal Government may just label all its buildings as prohibited places.
 
In practice it may never happen because the Federal Government may just label all its buildings as prohibited places.

My bet is, with the Federal government owned buildings in National Parks, they probably won't post them with signs at all. I think they will just rely upon common knowledge of the prohibition and if they do see a firearm in the building will ask that person to leave. It will be interesting to see what they do.
 
i thought you could carry in public buildings in Virginia...

seems like once a year they have open carry at the state capital don't they?
 
You can open carry in VA public buildings except courthouses, police stations, prisons and k-12 schools. You can carry in the Capitol but it is a little different, it might concealed only, or open only or only with a permit, something different than the rest.
 
In addition, a State can ban carry in a National Park. It is already happening, or should I say they are trying to make it happen in Maine.

Proposal targets gun ban for parks
Lawmakers seek return to earlier 'status quo'

By Kevin Miller
BDN Staff


AUGUSTA, Maine — Lawmakers heard testimony Wednesday on a proposal to reimpose restrictions on guns within Acadia National Park and along the Appalachian Trail in Maine in response to Congress’ controversial decision to lift long-standing limits on firearms.

Last year, Congress passed a law authorizing visitors to carry guns — both concealed and carried openly — in national parks. Congress passed the law after a federal judge overturned similar regulations enacted in the final days of the Bush administration.

But the new law, which takes effect later this month, does allow states to establish specific rules governing where and how firearms can be carried in the national park system.


For the remainder of the story....

http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/136137.html
 
As posted on Arches National Park's website:
Firearms

As of February 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park.

It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. As a starting point, please visit our state’s website.

Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park; those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.


The Canyonlands District has purchased over 100 "No Handguns" allowed signs a few months ago. This would be for posting in Arches, Canyonlands (Island in the Sky, Needles, Maze areas), Natural Bridges and Hovenweep. All four locations fall under Canyonlands Park Headquarters.
 
Bump for the weekend (we're almost there)
And also the latest commentary from the Washington Post.

Federal government to lift restrictions on guns in national parks

Federal government to lift restrictions on guns in national parks

By Ed O'Keefe
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 19, 2010; A16

The federal government will lift long-standing restrictions on guns in national parks Monday, meaning that visitors with proper permits could pack heat along with camping and picnic gear to most of the 392 parks. The move concerns current and former employees of the National Park Service who are convinced that the move will damage the spirit of the nation's park system.

Depending on state gun laws, visitors will be able to carry concealed and loaded guns into parks, the Park Service said.

The District bans people from carrying firearms; Maryland law allows gun owners with permits to carry handguns and rifles. Virginia allows for open and concealed carrying with proper permits and has reciprocity agreements with 30 states.

West Virginia, home to Harpers Ferry National Historical Site, allows for open carrying but requires a state permit for concealed firearms.

The Park Service has spent months preparing for the new law, holding conference calls in recent days with park supervisors to review the changes and ensure they prepare signage and talking points for visitors, spokesman David Barna said.

Differing state restrictions make understanding the new law complicated, especially for parks situated in more than one state, Barna said. Supervisors will have to ensure that tourists keep guns out of visitor centers and rangers' office buildings, because federal law bans firearms in federal facilities. But guns could be carried into private lodges or concession stands, depending on state laws.

"The burden for the public rests with knowing what the law is in the state that you're in, in a similar way that you have to know the automotive or marriage license laws of the state you're in," Barna said. Park Web sites will provide links to states' gun laws, he said.

In the Washington area, gun owners will be able to carry a firearm into the Wolf Trap National Park for the Performing Arts, but not beyond the ticketed entrances to the Filene Center, the park's amphitheater.

"Whether you sit on the lawn or under the canopy, firearms are prohibited," said Park Service regional spokesman Bill Line. Private restaurants on the grounds will also ban weapons, Line said.

Congress lifted the gun ban last spring, after years of efforts by a bipartisan coalition that said differences in state and federal firearms laws made it difficult for gun owners to travel between state and federal lands.

The Bush administration had lifted the ban on concealed weapons in its final months, after pressure from gun rights groups, including the National Rifle Association. But a federal judge blocked the move last year. The Obama administration declined to appeal the ruling, and Congress passed the law. President Obama signed the measure without comment as part of a credit card reform package.

National parks hosted about 275 million visitors in 2008, the agency said. There were 3,760 reported major crimes, including five homicides and 37 rapes. The agency does not note which crimes involve firearms. Crime is down across the system's parks, according to the statistics.

Bill Wade, president of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, said that could change Monday.

"Visitors are going to go to national parks with an increased amount of suspicions and weariness and concern," Wade said. Worse, he said, the new law will erase the park system's reputation as a place of solitude and safety.

"People go to national parks to get away from things that they face in their everyday living, where they live and work. Now I think that social dynamic is really going to change," Wade said.

Scot McElveen, president of the Association of National Park Rangers, said that the new law violates the Park Service's original mission to serve as a preserve for the United States' natural resources and wildlife.

"Our tens of thousands of years of collective experience in operating and managing parks leads us to believe that allowing loaded, readily accessible firearms in parks is one that will lead to lessened preservation of park resources," McElveen said.

Critics are also concerned about the possibility of an increase in illegal hunting and poaching.

"There are a group of folks that will never break the law, no matter what, because they believe the law and want to keep their weapons," McElveen said. "But there's also a group in the middle that can be tempted by opportunity when they think that no one's around and no one will find out."

John Velleco, director of federal affairs for Gun Owners of America, said he thinks such concerns are misguided. "If poaching is a problem, go after the poachers. Don't go after the millions and millions of people who have concealed permits and who could otherwise carry on Park Service land," he said. The new law will only make the parks safer, Velleco said.

"If anything, it's going to lead to fewer criminal attacks, because people will be able to defend themselves," Velleco said.

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), who led congressional efforts to change the law, said that concerns about the law's potential negative impact on parks are overblown.

"I don't expect anything major to come from this other than to restore the Second Amendment rights taken away by bureaucrats," Coburn said. If states want to change their gun laws, he said, "it'll be left up to the people and not the bureaucrats in Washington."
 
wally626 said:
You can open carry in VA public buildings except courthouses, police stations, prisons and k-12 schools. You can carry in the Capitol but it is a little different, it might concealed only, or open only or only with a permit, something different than the rest.
Police Stations? Where did you see that?

TFred
 
Police Stations? Where did you see that?

Was thinking courthouses (police stations) but there is no specific ban in police stations or prisons for that matter that I could find in a short search.
 
wally626 said:
Was thinking courthouses (police stations) but there is no specific ban in police stations or prisons for that matter that I could find in a short search.
Ah, ok just wanted to make sure there wasn't something I was not aware of! :)

TFred
 
I was not aware there was so much crime in national parks. If you went to a national park for the next 25 years, your chances of being involved in a serious crime would be about one in 4,000. It is always interesting to look hard at numbers. For instance, are there really millions and millions of people who have concealed carry permits?
 
Some National Parks are mainly roads Blue Ridge Parkway, Skyline Drive being two I am familiar with, and having a road deep within the state of Virginia with special anti-gun laws is rediculous.

But aside from that, most adults residing within Vermont or Alaska for instance, have the right to carry concealed, so it must be well into a million or so, with all the other states factored in to those two populations.

That stat(1 in 4000), seems a higher probobility than having a situation at a grocery or convenience store altho I don't know for certian....the grocery/convenience store statistics either.
 
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If you went to a national park for the next 25 years, your chances of being involved in a serious crime would be about one in 4,000.

But ultimately (like seatbelts and homeowners insurance), it's not about the "odds", it's about the consequences if it should turn out to be your "bad day" and you aren't prepared.

To quote Churchill: "A gentleman shall almost never need a pistol, but if he should he will need it badly and right away".
 
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