National Domestic Violence not for guns

M

Miss Demeanors

New member
Thats right! They do not recommend a women getting a gun to protect herself! I called this hotline and asked them what do they recommend for an abusive husband that threatens to come after a wife. They gave me a low down of how I should 'go to a shelter' 'talk with people' 'get a protection order' then participate in their community events such as a chili bake off! A CHILI BAKEOFF? Ya that is what a woman needs after her life is being threatned, a friggin chili bakeoff? Orders of protection do nothing but piss the guy off even more. A shelter that is basically a homeless shelter. Talk to people? To a point yes, but that will not solve the problem. After they explained this I asked what they thought of a woman getting a gun and taking a saftey course, they said "We do not recommend purchasing a firearm in cases like this. Most of the time the gun is turned on them and the victim is the one who pays with their life". Can you believe that? I told them they should be ashamed of theirselves for calling them a domestic violence help center. If someone was to listen to them they will end up dead or hurt. Here is what their website says and the toll free number you can call. I would be curious as to what the rest of the so called operators say about guns. Anyone care to flood their call center? Be my guest! :-)


The National Coalition Against Domestic Violence (NCADV) is dedicated to the empowerment of battered women and their children and to the elimination of personal and societal violence in the lives of women and their children. NCADV's work includes coalition building at the local , state, regional and national levers; public education and awareness activities; training and technical assistance; public policy development and monitoring; information and referral services; focus on the leadership of NCADV's caucuses developed to represent the concerns of under-represented groups; and other social change strategies designed to eradicate societal conditions which contribute to violence against women and children.

Although we do not have the resources to offer direct services to victims and survivors of domestic violence, there are many community programs which exist to to provide counseling, shelter, telephone hotlines and referrals to other organizations which may be able to help. These organizations are able to provide information and support on a confidential basis and many of the services are free.

For information on available services in your area, or if you would just like to talk to someone, we encourage you to contact the domestic violence shelter or family crisis center in your area. Or you can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 (voice) 1-800-787-3224 (TDD).

You DO have a right to a life free from violence and the threat of violence. We hope you will contact any resource that you need to protect your safety and well-being.


***Sorry for the rant but this makes no sense to me at all!
 
Miss D, trying to get these maroons to understand that an armed woman is as empowered as she can get is a waste if breath. They'd rather see women dead, instead of criminals.

Makes you wonder who the real He-Man Woman Haters are... those who teach women how to protect themselves, or those who encourage them to lie back and think of England.

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"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question.."
Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
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Coinneach, CO CAN Operator
 
Job creation and job security, kids....

A woman defending herself with a gun makes them face the cold truth, that they are useless and irrelevent and a sham. However, if they sucker these women into their clutches and mindset, then they all can hold hands, sing "Kumbaya" and get paid.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
MissD, here's a general quote from memory from an article titled "A Nation of Cowards".

"How can anyone have any sense of self worth when they will not take any responsibility at all for their own protection?"

Ask them that question.

That policy of theirs is "enabling" those women to continue to be victims. DC hit the nail on the head, they WANT those women to need them. Then they keep their jobs and "feel" useful and productive while more women are battered or killed.

MissD, the greatest thing you can do is to recruit more women into the shooting sport.

CMOS

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Join GOA, NRA, LEAA and vote.
 
What a ludicrous joke! If it wasn't such serious business, misleading women like they do, it'd be laughable. Many women who take their advice will probably end up losing their lives.

In the one and only time I was in the middle of a domestic brawl, I was headed for a gun, and would have shot the pr*ck if I'd gotten to it. You're right Miss D, those restraining orders don't work, they only serve to enrage the guy more as is evidenced by all the women who are killed after they file orders against their husband/boyfriend.

It's just like how the anti's believe that making guns illegal will keep nasties from getting them and will cause crime to stop: Wake up people and smell the gunpowder!!! Just because you tell someone not to do something, or forbid them from having something, does not stop them from doing it! (Any parent can attest to that!)


AARRGHH! I'd just calmed down from what I watched on TV last night, and now my BP is up again.


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"Liberty or death, What we so proudly hail... Once you provoke Her, rattling of Her tail- Never begins it, NEVER- But once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!
 
LMAO DC! You got that right!

I find it hard to believe that this place can stay in business. That is the worst advice I have ever heard in my life. The protection order is the biggest joke around, like that has ever made a difference. Then the chili bakeoff *sigh* "Here lady you can work off your advice and make us all some chili!" How does chili and getting beat fall into the same category? The only thing I can come up with, is if the chili is hot enough throw it at him. BTW this organization supports gun control also. I need to go shooting again very soon! :)
 
I'm sorry to see that this is just another apparently left-leaning organization that values politics over personal protection, preconceptions over reasoned thought, and warm fuzzies over cold truth.

As I see it, urban pacifists like the leaders of this organization are the Neville Chamberlains of postmodern America. They'd be happy if all of us--men as well as women--followed them down Chamberlain's doomed path of weakness in the presence of evil.

My $0.02.
 
"Although we do not have the resources to offer direct services to victims and survivors of domestic violence..."

In other words, all we have to offer is some free advice that doesn't cost us anything.

Thanks!
 
Miss D,
The sad part is that we pay for these people to come up with this stuff. Most of these agencies are actually quasi-governmental bodies. Most of their funding doesn't come from chili bakeoffs, but from government grants. After all, you can't pay for many masters and PHDs in social work to have a good upper middle class standard of living with bake sales.

Orders of Protection are only good if the woman (or man) who is protected by it wants to be. I see a lot of cases where people who are under OOPs live with the protected party and the protected party thinks that's great until an arguement breaks out. THEN they want the OOP enforced.

OOPs are not printed on kevlar they won't stop a bullet, deflect a knife of cusion the blow from a fist. Someone who is determined to harm someone will not be deterred by the fact they will be arrested if caught near the person they want to harm. H*&l, they know they will be arrested for battery or worse for the act and that doesn't stop them.

I have seen a lot of domestic violence, but I haven't seen many people who truely want to be away from their partner. I don't know why, I guess o some people that is the only way they know to have a relationship. I've seen people leave abusive relations only to start another one just like the one they left with someone else. Don't have any idea how to solve it.

The whole concept of standing there and taking abuse and letting the authorities deal with it just blows my mind. For a long time I have wondered why as a police officer, I'm taught to fight with my last ounce of strength and never give up, but a normal citizen is to stand there and take it, hoping the scumbag won't hurt you bad or even worse.

I'm sorry, but your life is worth just as much as mine. Fight, with everything you have and don't give in. I'm often asked by women what they should carry etc. to defend themselves as Illinois has no concealed carry. I always say OC, but the most important thing is mindset. Don't stand there and take it, hit hard and run.

Somehow I don't think I'll get any grants to fund that type of an advocacy program though.

Jeff
 
The only way I could see them saying this is if they assumed the husband was still in the home. If he knew where the firearm was it is possible that he would get it so it could not be used against him, I know I would if i knew it was there. If the guy has been kicked out and a VPO issued, a firearm and training may be the only thing that will save your bacon. If you have an ex-husband/boyfriend beating down the door with a sledgehammer, I would suspect a gun would be more preferable to have than a telephone to dial 911 on.
 
We have referred to PPO's a Partner Pissed Off because once one is issued the person it was issued against normally gets really PO'ed. The only true PPO is one that says Permit to Carry Concealed.

Massad Ayoob told the story one time of he and his wife going to a function at a half way house for battered and abused women. He left his pistol in the car and had the holster on his belt. One of the women running the shelter noticed the holster and had a hissy fit. Ayoob and his wife were offering a safe haven for one of the battered women. They were told no deal just because he had something to do with firearms. (Just a little, being the director of the Lethal Force Institute). To cut the story short the husband found wheere they placed his wife, went there and killed her. She made no attempt to do anything but die. Did the group feel any responsability for her death? Not much I would bet.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
The point of the shelter, counceling, PPO, etc is to create a paper trail documenting the dangerous abusive nature of the scumbag. This helps to convict and jail the bum which makes everybody involved look good and adds to the statistics they spout and they can proudly proclaim what a sucess their program is.
This grand plan only has one minor flaw, the woman is DEAD!
I'd much rather see statistics for justified self-defense shootings rise.
 
Grayfox,
I'm with you 100%. As you point out, their failures are used to document and justify a "need" to expand their program.

Their failures also document and justify their anti-gun campaigns and the consequent "need" for ever-increasing controls over every aspect of our lives!
 
Now that I read this I really dont think there is much of a choice in this type of situation. If it actually comes down to having to shoot the abuser what are the chances of that person proving their life was in danger? It could backfire, if the woman has kids she loses her kids and goes to jail. OTOH, if she choses to hide in one of these shelters, what kind of life is that? Rotting somewhere hidden from the outside world? Either way she/he loses. Its really sick to think that a place like this just cares about money and stats, not really the person that is on the other end of that phone. I was really expecting someone there to mention the right to protect yourself. Guess that right is forgotten everywhere. (but here :)) Just another reason to fight for RKBA.
 
Now it makes sense to me why they do not recommend a gun for protection. Look who started the whole thing.


By the President of the United States of America

A PROCLAMATION

Most families provide a nurturing web of relationships where children learn to love and
respect others and themselves and absorb the values that will shape them as adults
and citizens. But for millions of Americans, family life has become a battlefield where
women, children, and sometimes the elderly become casualties. The tragedy of
domestic violence touches all our lives by weakening families, leaving emotional scars
as devastating as physical ones, and creating a destructive cycle of violence where
those who were abused as children may become abusers themselves.

My Administration has taken important steps to reduce domestic violence by creating a
system that punishes offenders and provides victims with the information and
assistance they need to escape destructive family environments. The cornerstone of
this effort has been the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA), which was part of the
historic Crime Bill I signed into law in 1994. This landmark legislation combined tough
new penalties for offenders with funding for much-needed shelters, counseling services,
public education, and research to help the victims of violence.

We also have established a toll-free National Domestic Violence Hotline
(1-800-799-SAFE) where staff responds to as many as 10,000 calls each month;
worked to raise awareness in the workplace and among health care providers about
domestic violence; and more than tripled resources for programs to combat violence
against women. To build on the success of the VAWA and the Crime Bill, in May of this
year I unveiled my proposal for additional legislation -- the 21st Century Crime Bill --
that will reauthorize the Violence Against Women Act and toughen penalties for those
who commit violent crimes in the presence of children.

We have increased funding for State maternal and child health programs that include
child protection and family preservation services. We have worked with the Congress to
pass legislation that strengthens law enforcement, enhances child predator tracking and
protection mechanisms, and supports child abuse prevention efforts in State and local
jurisdictions. And, at the end of last year, we launched the Children Exposed to Violence
Initiative (CEVI), designed in part to reform Federal and State laws to provide swift and
certain punishment for those who commit child abuse and neglect. CEVI will also
strengthen local programs in hopes of reducing the number of children who are exposed
to violence or become victims of violence themselves; it will also encourage alliances
that include government as a partner with schools, communities, parents, and other
family members in an effort to prevent child abuse.

We can take heart in our progress and at the outpouring of concern and compassion we
see for the victims of domestic violence. Whether members of the law enforcement
community, health care professionals, educators, religious and community leaders,
policymakers, or concerned private citizens, Americans have united in the crusade
against domestic violence. With increased awareness, strengthened prevention, and
communities united in common cause, we are making the reduction of domestic
violence a reality and the dream of ending it one day a possibility.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, WILLIAM J. CLINTON, President of the United States of
America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the
United States, do hereby proclaim October 1999 as National Domestic Violence
Awareness Month. I call upon government officials, law enforcement agencies, health
professionals, educators, community leaders, and the American people to join together
to end the domestic violence that threatens so many of our people.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this thirtieth day of September,
in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and ninety-nine, and of the Independence of the
United States of America the two hundred and twenty-fourth.

William J. Clinton
 
Miss D, Darthmaum and others have said it all better than I can.

All of the failures of Protective Orders, etc. are well known. I do remember one young woman who took the premise of protecting herself and her child quite seriously, and it bears repeating here.

In the early 1980s I was stationed at Ft. Lewis WA, which is near Tacoma. A young single mom (low income, but proudly working and providing a good home for her child) made the decision to break up with her mentally and physically abusive boyfriend. IIRC, he was an ex-soldier from Ft. Lewis. He persisted and on at least two occasions, forced his way into her apartment and raped her. He threatend her and her child with death if she went to the police. Having had enough of this, the young woman purchased a .38 Special revolver and a box of ammo. I don't know if she took shooting lessons or not, but the next time Romeo came calling and started kicking in her door when she refused to let him in, things took a good turn. As he was almost through the door, she let him have, IIRC, all six rounds. Result: one scumbag, graveyard dead. The local DA, in an attempt to reap liberal support in future elections, had her arrested for either murder 2 or man slaughter. At that point, a public hue and cry went up and the good women of Pierce County and the surrounding area let it be known that they were, more or less, prepared to march on the County Court House, and then relieve the DA (a male of course) of some specific parts of his genetalia that (it was presumed) he might want to keep.

Bottom line, she was released rather quickly and was treated like the hero she was by the people of the community.

That, my friends, is the ultimate way for a woman to protect herself from a man intent on achieving absolute control over her, specifically killing her.

Mike
 
Great story Mike! More women need to take responsibility for their lives (and their children's), and not rely on agencies like the one Slick Willy instituted.

The proclamation Miss D posted is truly revolting. Klinton is simply a bellows, stoking (or stroking) his own fire/ego.

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"Liberty or death, What we so proudly hail... Once you provoke Her, rattling of Her tail- Never begins it, NEVER- But once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!
 
Klinton is simply a bellows, stoking (or
stroking) his own fire/ego.

LMAO Darth! I just sprayed pop all over the place!

I sent out 14 emails to people that run this, I cant wait for a response! :)
 
Miss D,

A chili bakeoff. You are joking right???

Did they also suggest maybe talking things over with Mr. Scum Puppy? Maybe over a game of midnight basketball!!

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I Love My Country, But I Fear My Government!
 
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