Nation of cowards
- Thread starter 40MM
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hunters_haven
Inactive
An observation
Speaking as a former victim (never again will I let that happen), there is something to be said for retaining one's dignity, self-respect and honor. Perhaps in our society we don't value these things, but in many cultures these things make or break one's place in one's culture. Never again will be forced to plead for my life because I had no way to protect myself. I always stay armed, in one fashion or another, and I will NEVER surrender my dignity again. If I am to die, it will be after I had struck a fatal blow to my attacker and make that person bleed out along with me. I have a strong desire for self-preservation so I make sure I have the skills necessary to remain alive while making sure that I can effectively terminate the threat to my life.
Unless you have been where I have been, it is rather difficult to understand how it feels. I politely, but firmly, state that until you know how it feels to be a victim, you can't fully comprehend the psychological pain that stays with you, making you wish that you had died so it would stop. Rather than wallow in the pain, I turn it into a drive to protect my life. Though I strive to avoid conflict, if I have to fight, I fight to win and will use whatever means, methods and tactics are required for me to do so.
I am neither a hero nor a coward, rather just a human being who wants to ensure that he remains alive as long as possible.
Speaking as a former victim (never again will I let that happen), there is something to be said for retaining one's dignity, self-respect and honor. Perhaps in our society we don't value these things, but in many cultures these things make or break one's place in one's culture. Never again will be forced to plead for my life because I had no way to protect myself. I always stay armed, in one fashion or another, and I will NEVER surrender my dignity again. If I am to die, it will be after I had struck a fatal blow to my attacker and make that person bleed out along with me. I have a strong desire for self-preservation so I make sure I have the skills necessary to remain alive while making sure that I can effectively terminate the threat to my life.
Unless you have been where I have been, it is rather difficult to understand how it feels. I politely, but firmly, state that until you know how it feels to be a victim, you can't fully comprehend the psychological pain that stays with you, making you wish that you had died so it would stop. Rather than wallow in the pain, I turn it into a drive to protect my life. Though I strive to avoid conflict, if I have to fight, I fight to win and will use whatever means, methods and tactics are required for me to do so.
I am neither a hero nor a coward, rather just a human being who wants to ensure that he remains alive as long as possible.
I would suggest that we are succeeding too well at being a kindler and gentler society. I never realized how much freedom I had as a child and at the same time, what a relatively rough neighborhood I grew up in, at least by small town standards. My mother was an invalid, so I was somewhat unsupervised much of the time, compared with other kids, though all of my friends enjoyed pretty much the same freedom in most ways. The funny thing is that it seems like I went to the movies more, watched more TV and still managed to be outside somewhere a lot.
I was in fights all the time and did have to go to the hospital a couple of times. No, I didn't carry a weapon and don't now (See, I live in a nice neighborhood now). A person has to be willing to put up with some hard knocks and some pain to be able to stand up to other people for whatever reason. You also can't be all that shy, either, which is another story. You also have to overcome the idea that danger lurks around every corner, or if you are in the woods, every tree. It just isn't that way, though my standards may not be the same as yours. That isn't to say there isn't any danger but rather that you can't let it stop you.
Oh, yeah. I wore glasses, too. That didn't help anything. I sure went through a lot of glasses, including when I was in the army. I guess horseplay isn't tolerated now, though.
Or as someone else put it, "Life is truly difficult. Acceptance of this fact makes life much easier; difficulty becomes normal and is no longer an issue."
Now, finally, I'm not so sure at this point I want to stay alive as long as possible. To what end?
I was in fights all the time and did have to go to the hospital a couple of times. No, I didn't carry a weapon and don't now (See, I live in a nice neighborhood now). A person has to be willing to put up with some hard knocks and some pain to be able to stand up to other people for whatever reason. You also can't be all that shy, either, which is another story. You also have to overcome the idea that danger lurks around every corner, or if you are in the woods, every tree. It just isn't that way, though my standards may not be the same as yours. That isn't to say there isn't any danger but rather that you can't let it stop you.
Oh, yeah. I wore glasses, too. That didn't help anything. I sure went through a lot of glasses, including when I was in the army. I guess horseplay isn't tolerated now, though.
Or as someone else put it, "Life is truly difficult. Acceptance of this fact makes life much easier; difficulty becomes normal and is no longer an issue."
Now, finally, I'm not so sure at this point I want to stay alive as long as possible. To what end?
This is a part of this story.
http://ktla.trb.com/news/la-na-pepe11jul11,0,3194719.story?coll=ktla-news-1
"He arrived at the hospital with the knife's black handle still jutting from his eye, quivering. "Louis refused to be carried out," recalled his sister, Eileen Trotta. "He wanted to walk out to show the terrorists that we won, meaning the U.S.A., and that he did not give up."
Talk about maintaining dignity, and then being cast aside like garbage.
http://ktla.trb.com/news/la-na-pepe11jul11,0,3194719.story?coll=ktla-news-1
"He arrived at the hospital with the knife's black handle still jutting from his eye, quivering. "Louis refused to be carried out," recalled his sister, Eileen Trotta. "He wanted to walk out to show the terrorists that we won, meaning the U.S.A., and that he did not give up."
Talk about maintaining dignity, and then being cast aside like garbage.
Long-Goodbye
New member
Ther is something more inportant to fight for than dignity and that is freedom.If I depend on the effort of another person to protect me than I am only free to move about my community as long as that person is available to protect me.Law makes me free.If I am subject to the thug with a weopan who wants my property than I am not free and if I give it to him I send the message to other thugs that this is the new law in wich the thug is the dictator.I am the president and prime minister of me and I have my own well equiped military who in times of need call on allies such as my governments millitary and the local police.The rise of the "give up and live" movement that emerged in the 70s has been punctuated by a staggering crime rate.
Harley Quinn
Moderator
Long Goodbye
You need to get over and participate in the thread about the 9mm.
Don't run away you need to fight for your thoughts, you are being missed
Yes I agree with you on this one. The crime rate in our country of the good OLD USA is an absolute disgust, and a blight on a rather well intentioned society.
It is the fault of the liberal Judges and week sister Police. We need to take it back and kick some azz.
HQ
You need to get over and participate in the thread about the 9mm.
Don't run away you need to fight for your thoughts, you are being missed
Yes I agree with you on this one. The crime rate in our country of the good OLD USA is an absolute disgust, and a blight on a rather well intentioned society.
It is the fault of the liberal Judges and week sister Police. We need to take it back and kick some azz.
HQ
Double Naught Spy
New member
Thank y'all just the same, but I think I would prefer to fight for my life, defend my life. I can get more dignity. I can't get more life.
It is most definitely not always a good idea to fight back at the time of assault or at a particular point in the assault. Why? Simple, it may get you killed. It most definitely may be more prudent to either suffer the indignity of the assault until opportunity presents itself to finally fight back when you can do so effectively. There comes a point were dignity and stupidity cross paths. I don't think you will find too many posters here suggesting you try to outdraw on multiple drawn guns against you unless you care to die fighting and then what were you fighting for, life or dignity. If life, you lost it. If dignity, you didn't live to experience it further.
But hey, if you value dignity above life or quality of life, I have no doubt Brendan McKowan is at the top of your list. He is no coward, but he wasn't a smart fighter. That verbal onslaught he delivered really didn't do much but get him shot 5 times. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189562&highlight=tacoma+mall
I think some of y'all are swayed by existential doubletalk.
. Many intangible concepts exist that may not be worth fighting for. Whether or not you should fight for it is not what justifies its existence.
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And yet "Nation of Cowards" does exactly this. The author resorts to name calling because it makes him feel superior, more dignified, by belittling others. He is attacking their dignity. By golly, he is a criminal.
flashman70
New member
I thought this was going to be about France.......
When is a good time? Should I have my people get in touch with my attackers people and set up a good time?
Your example of trying to out draw numerous guns tells me you take IPSC/IDPA a little to seriously. The likelyhood of ever being confronted by more than two attackers is incredibly small. Only by putting yourself in a bad position can that be accomplished.
In fact, most violent crime is a single person victimizing another person. Guns are not in the majority of weapons used in those crimes.
You need to look at it from a different point of veiw. Ever know a woman who has been raped? It is a very difficult concept for us men to wrap our heads around, but the profound loss of self respect and dignity is crippling in many cases. Some victims will commit suicide at some point down the road becasue they feel so violated. At what point during a rape would it be a good time to defend yourself? Before the damage can be done or afterwords while your attacker takes a breather?
I am not trying to change your mind, the only person that can decide what to do in a given situtation with an infinate number of variables is the person facing the opposition. But just becasue you don't belive dignity and self-respect are worth fighting for, don't tell others that it is not and belittle them for it.
In his book or collection of comments, Mr. Snyder observed regarding those who are anti gun, those who would refuse to defend themselves, those who would preclude YOU from taking the action they are unwilling to undertake, SELF DEFENSE, those who would rely on the forces of Law and Order to do, for relatively poor wages, what they are unwilling to do for themselves, engage in SELF DEFENSE, should the need arise, that they weren't worth the trouble, as I recall from reading a Nation of Cowards.
It always seemed to me that he was correct in the criticism he offered. I still think so.
It always seemed to me that he was correct in the criticism he offered. I still think so.
bluetrain said:
Thanks for posting that quote. It held a lot of meaning for me, especially at this date.
Related to that, I have found myself feeling exactly what you stated in the line that followed. What really is the point of all of this? We know it all does end; and when it does end, the ending makes the having-been utterly irrelevant.
-azurefly