Naa Mini As A Personal Defense Gun?

M

MR.G

New member
I am interested to hear the openion of others regarding the use of a North American Arms mini revolver as a personal defense gun. I feel that bigger is usually better, but in my case that is not allways possible, when it comes to concealed carry. I live in Florida where the clothing that I wear often doesn't conceal a firearm very well. I purchased a .22 l.r. 1-1/8" and a .22 magnium 1-5/8" mini for those times when little else will conceal well. The l.r. 1-1/8" can be concealed with any clothing, and the magnium can be carried almost allways. My question is, are these guns too underpowered with the short barrels to be effective against a typical mad man in a defensive situation ? Will the already challenged .22, fired from a really short barrel only generate enough energy to p.o. the attacker even more ? Accuracy of the weapons is not my concern, since I have practiced with them a lot, and am fairly proficient out to seven yards.
THANKS,
MR.G
 
Mr.G: Lots of people laugh at the NAA Minis for protection, but I don't. I figure the will to use a weapon decisively is more important than ballistics. Of course this type of weapon cannot be expected to stop an assailant with a center-of-mass shot. CNS disruption is required.
I know you said accuracy is not a concern, but I feel it is very important when we are talking about hitting something the size of an eye socket.

I believe a better choice among NAA guns is the 2" Black Widow in 22 Magnum. It has either fixed or adjustable sights that are far more accurate than the front blade on the 1 5/8" model. Mine will shoot 1.5" groups at seven yards. To make the Black Widow more concealable, you can replace the grip with one designed for the 1 5/8" model--they have the same grip frame. NAA also sells an pocket holster by Akers that can also be molded to fit the Black Widow. This rig will fit in just about any front pocket. A second Black Widow in the other front pocket for backup is even better.
Good Shooting, CoyDog
 
Afternoon Poster's;

I too, own both the .22LR and the .22 Magnum, both
with the shortest barrels available. Like Mr.G said, sometimes it isn't possible to conceal a
larger gun type; thus I have to resort to one of
these NAA mini's. Most of the time, I reach for
the magnum; simply because it has a little more
"spunk" than the LR version. I do not feel unprotected by carrying these small "mouse guns".

If you recall, I believe it was in the state of
Georgia whereas a patrolman working drug intradiction stopped a motorist, and after a
brief search the perpatrator pull out a NAA
mini magnum and killed the officer. I present
this just as fuel for thought and discussion
purposes. Bottom line, all LEO's make sure
you conduct a through search of any scum bag's
that become suspect's!!!:D:)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member



Molon Labe!!!
 
I think these are fine for backup guns, but not for any sort of primary gun. Of course, .22 lr and .22 magnum can be fatal. There is no doubt about that. Of course, .22 lr and .22 magnum and be ineffective as well. Shot placement is going to count at lot more with these little guns with short barrels and little bullets. What you have is a small bullet that does not get up to its fullest potential speed, most likely fired out of a gun that isn't actually being aimed so much as pointed.

I firmly believe that many people fall into the "well, it is better than nothing" mindset when they have little guns and opt to carry them in place of a larger gun because the little gun is definitely better than going naked. While it is better than nothing, it still may not be the best choice for the situation and it might be better to consider other clothing options and carry a gun with more punch. I sometimes carry a small caliber gun as well, but I do so when it is imperative that it is not accidently discovered by anyone. Otherwise, I make other arrangements to carry bigger.

Also, the NAAs are single action only, have 5 shots, and have to be hand cocked. There is nothing about that combination that suggests a particular quick or long lived response if you should need it. And forget reloading under pressure.

With all these shortcomings, if you do decide to carry a little NAA mini revolver as a primary, not backup gun, then you need to take the time to train with it as your primary gun. If you are carrying it in a pocket, next time you go to the range, do 100 draw from the pocket, cock, point, and fire drills and determine what kind of problems might result from that type of carry and just what sort of reaction time you can expect. How long does it take you to do that and fire 1 shot, then 2, then 3? When I have shot them, I have found that the little guns tend to hop a bit in my hand and follow-up shots had to be preceded by a slight grip adjustment. Maybe you are much more adept than me?

Every type of carry offers its own benefits and own problems, so for a gun of this size and ability, you really need to be on the ball and get everything right the first time because chances are you aren't going to get too many attempts to use the gun in defense for a given situation. Practice Practice Practice - and with the cost of .22 ammo, the cost of ammo is no excuse for not practicing.
 
If you want a toy or a trinket then get yourself one of these cute little guns. But if you want a gun that holds more than a few rounds and is user friendly, don't buy one. They are dangerous to use and carry and slow/clumsy to get into action, not to mention that every shot is single action. Don't even think about ease/speed of reloading. Not an ideal combination for a gun that you are going to bet your life on. Get a Keltec P-32 which will give you 8 rounds of center fire .32acp Corbons, in a compact, flat and light weight package, that only weighs 6.6 ounces. I have owned one for well over a year and I carry it daily as a LEO backup gun. I carry it in a Ken Campbell Custom Holster and I don't even notice that the gun is there. I chose the hard chromed slide and barrel for rust resistance. I will agree that the little mini revolvers are cute, but I sure as hell would not want to depend on anything in a rimfire for self defense. Because if you know anything about the way .22 LR ammo is made, it is well known that it experiences more missfires, than does quality centerfire ammo. The rim fire case has the wet priming compound put in, it is then spun and the compound is susposedly distributed around the perimiter of the case. But unfortunately this does not always happen and a void occurs. If your firing pin hits one of these voids, a dud round is the result. This is just one of the reasons, not to mention the weak and underpowered round. The .32 Corbon round is a far more viable choice and the p-32 will fire any .32acp that will fit into the magazine, unlike the pricey and ammo choosey Seecamps. Do some serious checking before you waste your money on one of these toys, especially if you're seriously considering carrying a gun for self defense. When I teach civilian self defense courses, I will not allow them on the firing range, due to their inherent risks.

7th
 
They are great compared to what I have carried as my primary weapon at times. There are times that it is just not feesable to pack a full sized or even a traditional mini pistol. If you have to think about where to wear your handgun, you may start leaving it behind when you go places. That is not good. Rule #1 for a gunfight: Bring a gun. I have carried as little as a 2 shot 22LR Derringer. Small? Yes. Effective? Yes.
 
The .22LR minis aren't adequate.

That's my opinion after looking at the NAA velocity tables and energy levels. I wouldn't carry one. If you *must*, the Remington Yellowjackets are the best of a bad situation.

In .22Mag from the 1.5" barrel, the situation is a lot better. The CCI MaxiMag +V will pull just shy of 1200fps, with enough energy to reliably penetrate skull. So at a minimum, you've got an excellent "nose gun surprise". Those CCIs come in either regular or "TNT", both are 30grain JHPs, the TNT has a more advanced JHP like a teensy little Ranger SXT :).

The other thing about .22Mags from a short tube is that the monster fireball adds that "extra something" to contact-range shots. Total damage is as nasty as a .45 JHP from across the room :).

The Black Widow with smaller grips and fixed sights is the best NAA minigun because the sights are a lot better, and the integrated barrel is more accurate. It's still concealable within a front pocket, which is all that matters. I'd like to see the MiniMaster with a barrel factory cut to 3", that should still fit in a pocket. I've been considering doing exactly that to mine, while putting a better front sight on.

In any case, these things are a great "front pocket surprise".

In .22Magnum. NOT in LR!
 
In any case, these things are a great "front pocket surprise".
Click to expand...
Thanks to your comments on other threads, Jim, I now always carry a Mini-Master in the right front pocket. The rug it came in serves as an excellent pocket holster.
 
Ahh, the MiniMaster, the cool weird cousin of the lot :)

For me, the MM is just too long for the front pocket. Once I score CCW, I'll probably carry it as an ankle backup, or maybe rig a sleeve holster :).

These things are REAL accurate, mine can pull 5" groups at 25 yards offhand.

And the 4" barrel might get the best .22LRs going fast enough to do some good. I keep the .22LR cylinder loaded with Yellowjackets as a "Clint Eastwood reload" :D. That's the *only* way to get anything close to a combat reload out of a mini.

Jim
 
"ALWAYS"

My NAA 22LR is with me always. It is without question better than no gun.
I will concede the fact that it does NOT make much of a primary arm, but local threat assessment suggests that it is better than no gun.

A "New York reload" is near-bye, and at times a larger primary piece is worn.

If my personal threat assessment changes I dress accordingly, but I still have my "always" with me.

I have found my NAA to be a perfect (and safe) alternative to going unarmed.

How can anyone disagree with that?




------------------------------------------------------------

"all my handguns are concealed-carry handguns"
 
Common Sence dude.......22/.22 mag are the last choice in conceal carry. Now saying that, some of us do not have a choice sometimes and are forced to carry this small weapon. Why? Because any weapon is better than NO weapon.
What is it, 2 million times a year citizens display their weapon and stop a crime in progress.
I prefer the .22 mag loaded with CCI Maxie Mags HP, 2200 fps.
But remember you should practice with this weapon at least once a week, shooting, and everyday accessing the weapon.
Look at the little inside the pant belt holsters or the little ankle holsters, but consider pocket carry.
good luck dude
DA
 
I've almost forgotten about my Mini...

..SEVERAL times. I've began buying these "cargo pants" from LL Bean that have flap covered pockets down on each leg. These pockets are the perfect size for carrying my .22LR, 1 5/8 barrel Mini Revolver in it's nylon holster. (Certainly not my primary pistol, but loaded with those new .22 "Quick-Shoks", a really nasty surprise for the bad guy at "nose" range!) Many times I've heard the washing machine turn on downstairs and have gone running to the stairs shouting, "WAIT, WAIT, I LEFT A PISTOL IN MY POCKET AGAIN!!! Sometimes I run down the stairs at break-neck speed only to find that evil woman standing there with a big grin on her face, TIMING ME with her watch, just to see how fast I can make it down the stairs before she puts the pants into the water!

Kentucky Rifle
 
I used to carry one, always.

Now, after I've worked enough murder cases to see what actual bullets really do to people from various guns, I have put away my .22 lr 1" bbl NAA. Muzzle velocities are very low, even with Vipers and Stingers. Slow into action and weak on tiny-caliber penetration is no way to win a fight.

Things might be different with the magnum or the longer bbls. My wife uses a S&W 34-1 with a 4" bbl, because it's all she's comfortable with. That's at least DA. The mini-revolvers are still slow to operate. I'm not a big fan of mouse guns (I've seen a lot more woundings with these than killings), but I'd at least want to be able to put 9 rounds in someone's face in three seconds (like with a Beretta 950).

I think it was Massad Ayoob who (back in the '80s) said that he'd rather have a knife than a mini-revolver. At the time I thought he was nuts. Now, I agree - just because it's a gun doesn't mean it's a real weapon.

They're neat little guns, though. If it makes you feel better, use it.
 
I still think you guys who ridicule the NAA minis are overlooking the importance of the WILL of the person behind the gun. Tell me, which would you rather face: Jeff Cooper armed with a NAA mini, or Alan Alda armed with a .45???

CoyDog
 
>>WILL of the person behind the gun. Tell me, which would you
>>rather face: Jeff Cooper armed with a NAA mini, or Alan Alda
>>armed with a .45???

Will has only so much to do with it. A .45 fired by Alan Alda is just as deadly as from Jeff Cooper, although I understand your point.

justinr1
 
Mr. G, I'll let you know what I think of the NAA Mini-revolver soon as I just order one - the Black Widow with fixed sigths and both lr and mag cylinders. I'm going to modify it like Jim March. Jim your ideas look great and I can't wait to try them out. Thanks for answering my e-mail. It was the deciding factor in ordering the NAA BW. Now, not to get into the "whats adequate for self defense" debate. I do have a SP101 .357 that I carry in cooler months when I'm not stripped down to a pair of shorts, sandals and nothing else, or at work where its jeans and a tucked in t-shirt, ditch digging, water pipe repair, etc. For me I can't hide any small frame revolver or auto in these situations (including my old J-Frame bodyguard airweight or M380 Auto). I can carry my SP at time when I have an untucked shirt, jacket or in the pocket of my Chinos. For me the NAA BW will be a very deep concealed firearm that will a. hopefully deter an attack, b. allow me to get to a larger bore firearm, c. with practice slow or stop an attack with appropriate accuracy. The single action aspect does not deter me as I own and shoot several large bore Ruger Bisleys and SBHs. SA are what I am most comfortable with. There are times when something larger just will not do and if Masad Ayoob would like to demonstrate his theory of rather having a knife than the NAA in a bad situation I am also a certified EMT (cuz he'll need one). Not to deride Mr. Ayoobs opinion of the NAA but I believe it will fill my need. The Kel-tec is out as Autos are not my game and I can practice much more with the BW. Again, this is not my perferred CCW but with practice, familiarality and more practice it will certainly do the job it was intended for. I'm off my soapbox now, forgive my lenghty oration.....Good shooting, RW:D
 
I'd like to see Jeff Cooper weilding a .22 mini-revolver.

Maybe wearing a tutu and kissing Diane Feinstein . . . as long as we're dreaming. :D I suspect the ol' Col. would be scandalized with either thought.

Well, Ravenwolf, I love my Ruger SAs, too, but I have to say it's a whole different thing to use a mini quickly. Perhaps the Black Widow's larger grips will make it easier than it was with the ones I've had.

Like I said, if it makes you feel better, use it.
 
it's a whole different thing to use a mini quickly. Perhaps the Black Widow's larger grips will make it easier
Click to expand...
The NAA Black Widow and the NAA Mini-Master (4" barrel) are just as quick and easy to use as a single action Ruger.

The BW or MM in a pocket, whenever it isn't possible to have a Ruger, beats all other options as far as I am concerned.

My choice for CCW is my SP101 .357. However, my NAA Mini-Master is always in a pocket; the SP101 is often not.

The "always" gun (NAA Mini-Master, in my case; the Black Widow in Ravenwolf's case) is really quite much more than mere psychological comfort . . .
 
The key to "tactical minirevolver 101" is that you need a pocket holster. The NAAs usually come with little suede belt-holsters with a leather belt loop - you can cut that loop off and what's left is the start of a decent pocket holster.

With *any* pocket holster, you have to sew a strip of cloth with a button hole to the bottom of your holster. The easy way is to take an old beat-up shirt and cut one of the buttonholes out. Sew it to the bottom of the holster. Then add buttons to the bottom of every strong-side pocket :).

Once in and "buttoned up", you can draw the gun and the holster will drop free when the pocket goes inside-out.

You could also use a safety pin. I advise against that. It will eventually open and jab you :D. Do you need to ask how I know this?

Any pocket holster should cover the trigger spur, but not the hammer.

OK, back to being serious a sec.

If you get "bad vibes" about your surroundings, it's perfectly normal for a civilian to stand around with your hands in your pockets. Nobody need know that you've got your thumb on the hammer, grip is set, forefinger is *straight* and off-trigger.

You're about .8 seconds away from aimed fire, with a bit of practice.

I recommend drawing straight up, muzzle down, gun close to your chest. Just about the point where the gun is as high as your lowest ribs, the holster will fall free and you can transition to horizontal. You'll make horizontal at eye level and about as far out as your elbow or so, then while pushing the gun further out, you line the sights up and fire right as everything locks up in a proper stance.

It looks funny, but it works. With a BW you can drop one right in somebody's eye socket at a couple of paces out, which is where muggings happen.

There's no better "front pocket surprise" available. First-strike speed *matters*.
 
Have you ever shot a NAA Mini?

Most people can't hit a barn wall with them.

Lots of practice to instinctively operate that tiny manual of arms.

I like my . . .

K-T32RH-BPw-pouch.jpg
 
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