Mystery Revolver

C

chorting

Inactive
This one has me completely stumped - the only marking on it is a "J.C" stamp I found when removing the grips. The gun itself appears to be a rimfire, and my guess is it's 30 caliber (give or take). The action on it is surprising smooth, and makes me think it's worth figuring out what exactly it is.

It belonged to my grandfather, who's been gone for 30+ years and not much help in this regard. I can imagine him cursing under his breath that my grandmother didn't bother to tell me anything about it (gone as well now).

EDIT: I should mention that it's a folding trigger if that wasn't clear from the image.

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Very interesting. It is European and I would say it is a pinfire rather than a rimfire. The cartridge had a pin that projected from the little groove at the end of each chamber. When struck by the hammer, the pin ignited the powder charge. I bet someone knowing a lot more than I do will have some comments and info for you.
 
Knee-jerk guess is a J.C. Higgins revolver. These were a Sears-brand revolver, and the actual firearms were manufactured by several big-name companies. From what I found on Google, these items were sold from 1908-1968.

I'll keep digging and see if I can find more info and a match for the model, or if it actually IS a J.C. Higgins or not.

EDIT: It's diffinitely European aesthetically, but from what I read the J.C. Higgins brand were based on any number of well-known models. I'll see if it pans out...
 
you might be right that it's a pin - the hammer hitting a flat plate seemed unusual to me, but I can't get it apart enough to tell if there's a center pin or not.

I thought about this being a Higgins (given it's the only "JC" I've heard of), but all their stuff has the brand name emblazoned across the grip and barrel that I've come across. That made me think maybe a much earlier piece, but who makes a gun without stamping their name clear as day (even a bad one)?
 
It is a pinfire revolver of European origin. Probably Belgium or France. There is what appears to be a proof mark near the JC. That may give you a country of origin.
 
Looks like a european 7.65mm (.30cal) "Velodog". Might be a Belgian Chefneux. Trigger and grip angle look the same, and has a "JC" on the grip frame. Is there a Belgian proof mark on the cylinder or frame anywhere? If you find some other proofmark, use your Google fu to find the country of origin, and report back. We might be able to nail it then.
 
Key word being 'might'

Back then just about everybody was into copying successful designs. Quality was all over the map and it's most likely just a conversation piece.
Totally cool though.
 
Here's a bit more to go on - I completely stripped it down to get a look at the backplate, and there's no pin for sure. As for markings, I found a "V" near the top of the frame under the grip, and what looks like a "forward slash" followed by a star at the base of the barrel. On the cylinder there is an "F" and an upside-down "L". There are two circles before the "J.C", but I can't make any more detail out about them.

I can't thank everyone enough for taking time to suss this out. Probably made more headway today than in the last two weeks.

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The "forward slash" with the star that you mention looks more like a "rampant lion" to me, which would make it a Belgian proofmark. Given the type of gun, this would make more sense. However, the photo is blurred, so I can't be sure.
 
I think you could be right about it being an older form of the Belgian proofmark. It's so incredibly small & worn I can't find a way to draw out more detail.
 
Ok - found a Belgian proof hidden in the design on the cylinder - it's the "E L G" over a star, which makes it definitely Belgian, and the date between 1866 &1893. The star with a line is actually an "X" over the star, or the inspector's mark (helpful, but not really helpful).

This takes care of origin and rough time period. I'd love to know the manufacturer/model, but without someone stumbling across it I don't see that happening - I think MrBorland's assessment of a Belgian Chefneux is pretty close to the mark for sure. From what I keep reading the "F L" is likely a subcontracter stamp. They cast the frame & cylinder, then "J C" did the inlay and assembly.

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Howdy

Sorry, it is not a J. C. Higgins. I can remember going into Sears when I was a kid and they carried the J.C. Higgins line, but those were clearly cost models of the Winchester 1894 and other American made guns. Not European antiques.

Here is a link to European proofmarks. Your revolver has a Belgian proof mark and I'm pretty sure it is pin fire. The slots on the cylinder are where the pin of the cartridge was positioned so it could be struck by the hammer. That was one of the problems with pinfires, you had to carefully orient the rounds in the chambers.

Here is a link to all kinds of European proofmarks.

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/archives/Proofmarks.pdf

Today we think of Belgian made firearms as high quality products from FN Herstal and the likes, but during the 19th Century Belgium made a lot of cheap knock offs. S&W had to sue one Belgian company to stop them from making S&W counterfeits.
 
It is a Belgian-made pin fire revolver. (Use Google to look up "pin fire".)

It is not a J.C. Higgins anything; the "JC" initials are coincidence.

I think the name some of you are looking for is Lefaucheaux, who invented the pinfire system. The pin fire originated in France, but was very common in Europe and revolvers were made in several countries, especially Belgium. They were not commonly imported into the U.S., though some were used in the Civil War by both sides.

In top condition, they have a mild collector interest, but most seen here are in poor condition and worth very little, around $50 or so. Few dealers will take them in trade since they cannot be guaranteed, parts being near non-existent.

Jim
 
I think clarification is needed on what "pinfire" actually means. The pin in "pinfire" isn't part of the gun, but rather part of the cartridge. With a pinfire gun, rather than a firing pin striking a centrally located primer or a rimfire primer, the hammer strikes a small pin which protrudes outward from the base of the cartridge. Once struck, the pin ignites the priming compound inside the case and fires the cartridge.

Pinfire cartridges were among the first practical self-contained metallic cartridges. They were supplanted by rimfire and centerfire cartridges due to those designs' inherent advantage but continued to be manufactured well into the mid-to-late 19th century.

Your revolver can be identified as a pinfire by both the shape of the hammer (it is supposed to strike the top of the cylinder where the pin would be located) and the notches in the rear of the chambers to allow clearance for the pin.
 
This is what a pinfire cartridge looks like...

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The revolvers were only mildly popular in the United States, as Jim notes. They were more popular in Mexico and Central and South America.

Pinfire shotguns were also very popular in Europe, and occasionally seen in the United States.

Pinfire shotshells were loaded in Europe right up to World War II.
 
The proof mark is definitely Belgian and while I don't know what the "JC" means it's NOT J.C. Higgins. The gun is way too old for that.
 
Thank you everyone for the comments and help. The explanation of the pinfire is very useful as well, as I had falsely assumed that referred to a hammer striking the center of the round (and in this case there is nothing but the vibration to ignite it).

I doubt highly there's any monetary value in this gun - but then it's a family piece and like the others I just gathered up, I want to clean them up and put them in a gun safe to protect them for the time being. Any that are in operating condition I fully plan to take out time and again, but otherwise I want to keep them where they won't get exposed to elements and pass down to the next generation.

I'm the only member of the "younger" (not that young, mind you) generation that has any interest in doing so. Some would consider disposing of them entirely. I'm very thankful for open forums like this one that can share knowledge and information to help better document where these pieces come from and how they were used.
 
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