My company apparently hates firearms...

B

Blue Jays

New member
Hi Everyone-

Political Correctness knows no bounds....

My firm has a "Use of Internet Policy" that forbids staffers from accessing the Web for reasons not related to work. This includes an automated response for pointing the browser to "inappropriate" web sites.

Guess what? Anything with the word "gun" or "firearms" in it is now on a big no-no. Not only that, if you try to go to a mainstream site like Remington, Winchester, S&W, etc, you get the dreaded "Use of Internet Policy" statement. Violations are likely published at the HQ building for review by management.

In the mood to push my luck, I tried going to places like Heckler & Koch, Vang Comp, The Wilderness, and other sites that do not specifically mention those naughty words. No problem at all there. Time will tell.

Here's what rubs me the wrong way. If I'm sitting at my desk during lunch and want to research DECENT and LEGAL information, we shouldn't be lumped-in with pornographers!

How long before "TFL" is added to the list?

Perhaps we need a site that will allow us to access 2nd Amendment & firearms information from an innocent-sounding place like Flowers4Boss.com!

~ Blue Jays ~
 
To: Rich Lucibella
Fr: 4V50
Re: TFL Name Change

Suggest website name change to, "For the Children..."

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
The place where I work isn't that bad- I can go whereever I want on the 'Net, as long as it isn't porno, but we are expected to limit our online time. However, my company, and other based here, have a specific "no weapons" policy that states that we cannot have weapons at work, even if we are in lawful possesion of a
CCW license!

I know of several people who work at Texas Instruments, and it is their policy that if you fight with other employees, even if they started it and you are defending yourself, you will be subject to disciplinary action, including termination. Who are they to tell me to ignore my rights, and to roll over and pee on myself if someone tries to do me harm? If I were fired for exercising my rights, I wonder what a court of law would say?

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"Fear is the path to the Dark Side...
Fear leads to gun laws, gun laws lead to disarmament, disarmament... leads to Tyranny!"

-------------------------

"If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP!"
 
I long ago found the ULTIMATE solution to this sort of idiocy.

On lunch, I fire up my laptop, connect my external modem, raise my modem's antennae and hit the net at 56k.

All I need is power. The radio signal is RSA encrypted, they can't even tap it.

It's $30/month for unlimited wireless internet. That includes SMTP mail, full ISP services, but no free disk space for a website.

Considering that if you use it from home you're not tying up your voice line so it's the equivelent of a 2nd phone line in your house AND you've got total internet privacy at work and it'll work even from a restraunt...oh ya.

Net heaven.

http://www.ricochet.net

They just got a pile of venture capitol to expand nationwide, too. Right now they're in greater WashDC and surrounding areas, all of the SF Bay Area and greater Seattle. LA's getting it soon, after that I think they're pondering Dallas/Ft. Worth.

Kewl.

Jim March
 
I can see their point, Blue Jays.

The company bought the computer equipment for improving the business. They own it, and can make whatever rules they want as to how it's to be used. Just because someone is on their lunch hour doesn't mean they can use company property for personal reasons. I certainly wouldn't be able to take the welder from my job, and go out into the parking lot on my lunch break to do some body work on my truck.

In fact, someone used a company computer for "unauthorized" internet access, and corrupted the whole system with a virus. Very expensive.

I also can't argue with the "No Firearms Allowed" policy at my plant. I don't own the property, the Company owns it. It belongs to them, and if they say I can't carry my gun on their property, then that's their right, and I'm obliged to respect it. I may disagree with it, and I do, but I can't argue with it. It's a "private property rights" issue.

As for defending myself on company property, policy is irrelevant. If assaulted, I will savage. Ever get a 65 lb. torsional vibration damper upside the head? :) Ouch.

-boing

[This message has been edited by boing (edited June 30, 1999).]
 
Hi All-

4V50...I was trying to think of a "cute" URL and you've really done it! LOL!

J.March...That's the way to out-tech the big 'ole company. If push comes to shove, I can always just access via my ISP at home. Could really make a statement with that wireless modem, though! :)

Boing...I hear that side of the arguement. My main concern is that the language used is SO strong and would make ANYONE feel like a complete cretin! If retribution didn't loom so large, I'd love to post it for you guys. It would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic. I'm not thin-skinned, I just think the firm is "orchestrating" how they feel their employees should "conduct" themselves the remaining hours of the week.

It all goes back to that string "Are You Proud To Be a Gunowner?" Some truly powerful people are sincerely interested in demonizing the use of firearms.

If someone was "on the fence" at my place of employment, they would be horrified to learn they visited a forbidden place. They certainly wouldn't become Proud Firearms Owners without some other point-of-view.

Utilizing the Web certainly uses bandwidth, no arguements here. I just feel it's a bit overboard and alarmist.

Thanks everyone,

~ Blue Jays ~
 
If I were a business owner who had an employee who was complaining about not being able to access certain sites on their "own" time on the company-provided equipment which had to be configured by at least one company-paid tech in order to keep employees from playing donkey-kong all day long; I'd just can the employee who complained about access over their noon hour or break time, rather than provide a new tech just to keep track of the break and lunch hours of the one using the internet for non-business purposes.
 
It seems to me that BlueJays was complaining about the SELECTIVE access to the Web. Evidently the company doesn't mind some surfing, it just has to be PC -- that's a valid cause for a gripe to me. As far as a
"no guns, even CCWs on the property" -- a couple of friends of mine let management know that they have instructed their wives
to sue the bejaysus out of the company if
they are killed on site. The approach being that the company prevented them from defending themselves. One outfit said "Okay, Okay, just don't flaunt it"(!) When PC clashes with the Great God Bottom Line, it loses every time.
 
I, too, can understand a company not wanting weapons on their premises. I know it's their right. What I object to is the knee-jerk "no guns 'cause guns are badbadbad" mentality that would lead to such a policy, even if the gun is legal.

Having my wife sue if I'm killed at work sounds good. Think I might try it. ;)

------------------
"Fear is the path to the Dark Side...
Fear leads to gun laws, gun laws lead to disarmament, disarmament... leads to Tyranny!"

-------------------------

"If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP!"
 
My company has a discreet no-guns sign at the security desk; the problem is that the sign says "It is unlawful to carry a concealed handgun in this facility."

I puzzled over this for a minute, then asked the (unarmed) guard why it's illegal to carry here.

"It's against company policy," he muttered.

"Excuse me?" sez I. "Since when does [company] have anything to say about the law?"

"They just don't want guns in the building."

"OK, I understand that part. What I *don't* understand is why they say it's ILLEGAL!"

"Hell, son, I don't know why it says that. Ask the CEO."

Yeah. That'll happen.
 
Company computers are NOT "Personal Computers" , they are owned by the company and they can set any rules they want, and as long as you work there you've gotta go by what they say. (At my company, I'm the guy they call to fix it when people screw up their computer with "The Titanic" screensaver, or whatever. I DESPISE DOWNLOADED SCREENSAVERS! And I truly believe my hunting license should come with a couple tags for virus programmers, but anyway..)

As for using your labor to benefit a company that encourages beliefs that are in direct contrast to your own, well I'd be looking for another job. (Most of our exec's here are hunters, shooters, and/or ex-military.)

As for "No Gun" policy. Screw 'em. Keep it hidden, out of site, out of mind, and if you should ever need it, live to find another job.

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"Come and Take It!"
 
My company goes one step further. Firearems not allowed within 300 yards of any company facility INCLUDING the parking garage. Also, vehicles in said gargage have been broken into with regularity. So you can't even leave something in your truck.

It basicaly means my company has taken it on themselves to provide for my safety anywhere around the company. Ok. If I get attacked here on the premises, they will be liable.

But what they don't seem to realize is that by not allowing a firearm in my truck (which is legal with my CHL) they are also saying they take responisbility for my safety on the trip to and from work each day. So if I stop to change a flat; a la Bill Cosby's son; they are so liable for anything that happens.

Can you say multi million dollar law suit? I knew you could.

Does that mean I am following company policy. I take the 5th. ;)



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Bubba
IDPA# A04739
====
It is long been a principal of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully. - Jeff Cooper
 
With all the BS I have to deal with already at work -
If I cant browes freely - excluding of course any porn sites - around the web...

Management knows I will quit on the spot. If I have down time - it is MY time. As long is my work doesnt suffer... neither do I.
I would challenge you company on this. 1st and 2nd amendment here! Tell them they are violating you civil rights and you will call the ACLU... :)

------------------
Every man Dies.
Not Every Man Truely Lives...

FREEDOM!

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
I really hate to be the one to break this to you, Kodiac, but the first and second amendments don't apply on private property. They don't even apply on public property if you are in the employ of the public entity that owns the public property.

Not that I think you shouldn't be able to say just about whatever you want, and carry wherever you want.

Would I/do I violate my employer's anti-guns policy? Of course not, because that would be against department policy, and would be wrong. :)
 
And I hate to be the one to break this to you...

You can QUESTION "AUTHORITAH."
Some one made a rule.
You can ask "WHY?"
And if you dont like it you can ask them to change it.

If that doesnt work - you can take it - or leave it.

------------------
Every man Dies.
Not Every Man Truely Lives...

FREEDOM!

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE



[This message has been edited by Kodiac (edited June 30, 1999).]
 
Wow, I feel blessed. The company I work for let us build a shooting range on the property, we have benches set up as far as 400 yards. Guns are not to be carried onto the plant site itself but we can even hunt deer with rifles on the surrounding property (10,000 acres).
As for internet access, it is limited by policy to "business purposes only" but on back shifts we get away with surfing as long as we stay away from the porno sites.
 
deanf,

"...the first and second amendments don't apply on private property. They don't even apply on public property if you are in the employ of the public entity that owns the public property."

Would you care to explain this to us. I'm a strong believer in property rights, but this seems a little extreme to me. "shall not be infringed." is what I remember reading. Not "shall not be infringed unless the property owner says so." Was there some kind of Supreme Court ruling on this that you could expain? Do the same limitations apply to other rights like the 4th?

I'm not trying to flame you. It just seems to me that the wording of the second amendment would cause my right to self preservation to be above your property rights even if I'm on your property. (of course you have the right to fire me if I don't comply/agree.)

So, please humor me with an expanation. Thanks.

PS. Another question in regard to your last sentence. WHY would it be wrong? (again no antagonism here. Just curious.) Does legality = morality?

[This message has been edited by xyzman44 (edited July 01, 1999).]
 
Oatka & Jedi Oomoda-

You're right on the money with where I'm coming from on this topic! The company is well within their rights to make any rule they want...my beef is in how senselessly selective they are about it.

In theory, Rosie O'Donnell web sites should be on the "Use of Internet Policy" no-no list because she does not support the Bill of Rights. How can an American-based, international, multi-billion dollar organization not support this document?

I certainly feel for the MIS people and Network Administrators amongst the TFL crowd...the things employees do to screw up corporate computing environment is enough to make you pull out your hair!

My feeling remains that there are many more forces affecting corporate America far more seriously than a highly-productive staffer who also happens to be a gunowner.

Regards,

~ Blue Jays ~
 
OK, Blue Jays, here's what you do:

Find a website with gun content that you absolutely must access in order to make your company some money. Then go to your boss and say, "See how much money your policy's costing us!" That'll get 'em.

-boing
 
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