My co-worker was mugged

J

Jedi Oomodo

New member
This past Sunday, a co-worker friend of mine was mugged- right outside his apt. building.

He and two female friends had just parked, and were headed toward the stairwell. He noticed the 2 BG's come from behind the nearby laundromat, walking in their general direction. He heard one of them speaking, but ignored them, as he figured the BG was speking to his companion. Then one of them tossed something at him, and said "I was talkin' ta YOU!". When he turned around, the one said "Gimme yo' wallet". My friend didn't react for a moment, and the BG retrieved a gun from his accomplice. Oddly, he held it by the muzzle, as if he would pistol-whip my friend, rather than shoot him. :confused: He did hand over his wallet, and the rat-scum took off. Fortunately, the two women were in the stairwell, out of the BG's sight, so they were safe.

My friend now wants to buy a gun, and has asked me to take him with me to a gun show, so he can check out what's there, and have an "expert" opinion (disclaimer: I do not consider myself such. He simply knows next to nothing about guns, whereas I know a bit more). I also offered to take him to a range so he can rent a few handguns, to get a feel for calibers and models. He also wants to get his TX CHL (he knows I, as well as someone else on my shift, have a CHL).

This got me to thinking- How would I have reacted were I in this situation?

Questions/comments? He has also since learned the two punks stole a purse off a friend of his, who lives on the other side of the street from him, within the past 2 weeks. Dumb, dumb, dumb BG's. :mad:

In other news, another co-worker related this story to me this morning: About 2 days ago, early in the AM, his wife was in the bathroom, er, "handling her business" :o, when she noticed a head-shaped sillhouette through the frosted-glass exterior window. Apparently, this window is composed of 4"X4" glass squares, and somewhere down at the bottom, there a a gap in the caulking large enough to allow someone to see into the bathroom.

You guessed it- someone was watching her in the bathroom, through that gap. :eek: Creepy.

The police were called, but no perp has yet been found. We spent a merry 15 minutes discussing claymore booby traps! :D

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Pray as though it's all up to God, act as though it's all up to you.

If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!

[This message has been edited by Jedi Oomodo (edited July 17, 2000).]
 
Personally if it had been me, and some doofus threatened me while holding the gun from the wrong end, and he was close enough to take my wallet, then I'm close enough to take his gun. Preferably after I smash his teeth down into his digestive tract to distract him a little. But then again, I'm a really big guy, so he would probably have mugged me with the gun pointing in the right direction.

That is assuming that I am unarmed. If I was carrying (which I do) then I can guarentee that I can draw down on him before he could ever get his gun turned around. Where we go from that point is up to him.



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Anyone who brandishes a deadly weapon in an attempt to rob you should be shot dead as soon as possible. You don't have any chance of knowing what they will do to you.

A family friend was approached by two men. They demanded his wallet. He gave it to them without any resistance. Then they shot him. He died on the ground in front of his friends. He was about 30 years old.

Mugging people is an act of violence. It is not an efficient way of getting money. If they cross the line of confronting you with a weapon- just like crossing the line of entering your home- they should be dead.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MountainGun44:
Anyone who brandishes a deadly weapon in an attempt to rob you should be shot dead as soon as possible. You don't have any chance of knowing what they will do to you.

[/quote]

Agreed. This is a story that they published on me in Guns and Ammo a few years ago in the 'Real Life' column.
When I was 18 I did newspaper deliveries in the black section of town, the 'bad' section. I delivered to stores and machines picking up money and so I carried a LOT of cash in my vehicle. I also carried a sawed-off Winchester auto 12gauge and sometimes a handgun.
The tranny had gone out on my main truck and I was driving a ratted out Plymouth horizon that had a water leak thru the cylinders-no power and definatly not a 'leave quickly' car. I was sitting in front of a closed store doing some paperwork and two BG's came to the car-one on each side. Started in with "Give us your money Mofo or we'll blow your head off!" Turns out I'm pretty calm in a situation-got mad as hell but kept everything calm and cool. After telling me they'd blow me away about 6 times and never seeing a gun-I figure they are unarmed. I finally gave the money and they started to walk away. That when I brought out the Winxhester. Got my money back. :D
and let them go.

However, and I've debated it over the years with myself...sometime I feel I shoulda shot them...next time they might be armed and the person the 'rob' might not be as calm or as lucky.

Got a lot of flack from the G&A readers on this...many said I should not have pulled the gun after the fact, that I was being 'reckless'.



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Jedi,

Please see to it that your friend learns how to shoot properly. In my opinion, the to BG's in that situation should have been given a little lead poisoning if you know what I mean, but unfortunately some might think professional BG's have a right to a safe work environment and therefore citizen with firearms shouldn't be allowed. Had your friend been armed, it is quite possible the situation would have turned out differently. But there could be many other details you didn't mention. Had he been more aware of his surroundings, would the situation have been preventable? Everyone should consider simple things like this, whether carrying a firearm or not. Many things are avoidable, whether they are or not, being prepared is the key. Many liberals will point these things out and try to say there is no reason to be carrying a firearm. However, avoiding situations that cause fires is not an justification to not have fire extinguisher available.

As for the bathroom incident, I would recommend having a magazine rack full of various gun magazines in plain view. Someone peeping through a window might get the idea. Besides, it's good reading material when taking care of business.
This past Sunday, a co-worker friend of mine was mugged- right outside his apt. building.

He and two female friends had just parked, and were headed toward the stairwell. He noticed the 2 BG's come from behind the nearby laundromat, walking in their general direction. He heard one of them speaking, but ignored them, as he figured the BG was speking to his companion. Then one of them tossed something at him, and said "I was talkin' ta YOU!". When he turned around, the one said "Gimme yo' wallet". My friend didn't react for a moment, and the BG retrieved a gun from his accomplice. Oddly, he held it by the muzzle, as if he would pistol-whip my friend, rather than shoot him. :confused: He did hand over his wallet, and the rat-scum took off. Fortunately, the two women were in the stairwell, out of the BG's sight, so they were safe.

My friend now wants to buy a gun, and has asked me to take him with me to a gun show, so he can check out what's there, and have an "expert" opinion (disclaimer: I do not consider myself such. He simply knows next to nothing about guns, whereas I know a bit more). I also offered to take him to a range so he can rent a few handguns, to get a feel for calibers and models. He also wants to get his TX CHL (he knows I, as well as someone else on my shift, have a CHL).

This got me to thinking- How would I have reacted were I in this situation?

Questions/comments? He has also since learned the two punks stole a purse off a friend of his, who lives on the other side of the street from him, within the past 2 weeks. Dumb, dumb, dumb BG's. :mad:

In other news, another co-worker related this story to me this morning: About 2 days ago, early in the AM, his wife was in the bathroom, er, "handling her business" :o, when she noticed a head-shaped sillhouette through the frosted-glass exterior window. Apparently, this window is composed of 4"X4" glass squares, and somewhere down at the bottom, there a a gap in the caulking large enough to allow someone to see into the bathroom.

You gussed it- someone was watching her in the bathroom, through that gap. :eek: Creepy.

The police were called, but no perp has yet been found. We spent a merry 15 minutes discussing claymore booby traps! :D

[/QUOTE]
 
Jedi, you are in Texas and at that range a head shot to each is in order. Officer, I shot the one with the gun and the other guy picked it up so I shot him too. The prints of the guy carrying it will be on the grip, the prints of the guy who picked it up will be on the barrel. Make the world a safer place.
 
JediO, I'd have considered the two men as a deadly threat to me and the women who were with me. I carry a Colt's .45 Lightweight Commander, and I'd have shot them both to stop the deadly threat.

That said, I strong suggest you have your friend who wants a gun, to learn gun safety, and HOW TO SHOOT on a .22LR, handgun. In my opinion, based on having trained a BUNCH of people how to shoot, everyone should learn on .22s. After mastering safety and shooting fundementals, move up to the heavier calbers.

I.e., when my wife and I married, she had never been around firearms and was afraid of them. But she wanted to learn. Over a period of time, she shot 1,500 rounds of .22LR in my S&Klinton K22, and about another 500 rounds through my Browning Challenger, before we went to the larger calibers.

Now her personal handguns are Ruger .357 Mag., and a S&Klinton 36 .38 Sp. H.B. 3"bbl., which she carries. She also knows how to shoot my other handguns, but those are her's and she's very comfortable with them.

Start 'em on .22s! You/they won't be sorry.

FWIW. J.B.
 
I agree with Jeff. As a Texas CHL holder myself, the scumbag with the gun would have been "stopped" immediately.

CMOS

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It seems the general consensus is that both BGs should have been ventilated, pronto. I called him right after I found out about it, and during the course of our conversation, he said something to the effect of "If it had been you, those two (scumsuckers) would be dead now". I said "Yup". Anyone who attempts to take by force what is mine, will be dealt with harshly.

RHarris, as for the bathroom incident, I'm so creeped out since hearing about it that I plan to begin taking my shotgun with me anytime I leave my bedroom in the middle of the night, no matter what for! :eek: About his situational awareness, I don't think he was quite in Condition Yellow, but not quite Condition White, either.

Jeff, even though the BGs were no more than 10' away from my friend, if it had been me I don't know that I can shoot well enough to pull off head shots! I would most likely double-tap the BG who had the gun with my P245, then deal with other based on how he reacts to having his plans ruined! :D

Somewhat OT- this friend of mine is acquainted with an LEA who might be able to set me up with some Black Talons. That would assuredly ruin those mugger's day! :D

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Pray as though it's all up to God, act as though it's all up to you.

If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!

[This message has been edited by Jedi Oomodo (edited July 17, 2000).]
 
" The only morally appropriate conclusion to an armed robbery is a dead robber- on the ground, at the scene, at the time. JHG
crankshaft
nralife, goa, jpfo, fcsa, smvfm
 
I have this comment, which is if you don't take a defensive stance when you see a couple guys who don't look like members of the local country club come from around a building towards you and you don't even know they are talking to you, what the hell good is a gun?

Be aware of your surroundings first. Just b/c you are going to your house or apt. is no reason to drop your guard. I had to live in Liberal Lawrence, KS for a while and always took a Glock with me from car to front door, even if that distance was only 40-50 feet with a clear view.
 
30+ years ago the answer would have been to throw the wallet in one direction and then run the other way. Either that or carry a fake wallet (still probably a good idea).

These days you have to ALWAYS assume worst-case scenario. If your life's at stake, what else can you assume?

Some people (on this board and others) think that my plan to kill any intruder who's broken into my house while I'm home is unwise. Certainly I won't tell the cops that I "shot to kill" but be sure that either I or the perp will be dead at the end of the encounter. Such are the times we live in.
 
This story gets my adrenaline pumping as much as watching a Charles Bronson movie. However, you can figure that if you fire on and bring down an 'alleged perp" it will cost you $20K-$80K in court costs, depending on where you live. And then you can brace yourself for civil court.
As unpleasant as it is, I would do everything to satisfy a mugger (knowing that you could still draw down on him and kill him) just to avoid the aftermath. Any of you who have been brought up on these charges, or anything less in court, know exactly what I'm referring to. If you want stress in your life for several years, and the thought of prison, go ahead and pull the trigger. I am not saying that one should not defend oneself. I carry, and all of us who do understand the thinking behind it. But if you want a Kafka-esque nightmare, go ahead and make the defendant's day. Pull that trigger.
We indulge in a certain amount of bravado on these boards, but I hope that won't taint our advice to someone who may truly put himself in harm's way.
 
Jedi,

No flames intended, but if you were involved in a shooting in which you used Black Talons, the prosecution would have field day - even if the shoot was justified.

There are plenty of good load choices out there that will get the job done without having the evil stigma. My advice is to stay away from the Black Talons unless you are LEO. I would also stay away from any ammo that is outrageously packaged or has a menacing name or label. Just more fodder for the prosecution to rattle you with...

Just my $.02... :) Glad your friend is OK.

[This message has been edited by AKrob (edited July 18, 2000).]
 
Please understand that my advice is becasue Jedi and his friend live in Texas. When I lived in Arlington people were shot in the back over stealing a lawnmower and a bicycle. In Feb 1998 a 15 year old was killed and two wounded when trying to steal hubcaps. It is legal to shoot 'taggers' under certain circunstances and one robber was killed over $2. All these shootings in Texas were sent to a Grand Jury and all were no-billed. Anti-social behavior is not acceptable. You may die as a result and that is just fine. I would probably have given up the wallet to the unarmed person THEN shot both of them.

Jedi, you can make head shots at 10 feet. I shot four 8' circles at 12 feet in 1.44 secs and I didn't win. The guy that beat me was using a Detonics and did it in 1.27 secs.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MountainGun44:
A family friend was approached by two men. They demanded his wallet. He gave it to them without any resistance. Then they shot him. He died on the ground in front of his friends. He was about 30 years old.[/quote]

I have heard from LEO friends that muggers do this sometimes so the wallet owner won't be able to call in the stolen credit cards before the muggers and use them. Whatever the reason, I fully concur that, if armed in that situation, what's called for is a double-tap to each, gun holder first, follow up if needed. (This assumes there was no second gun in the hands of the other bad guy.)

Serves the mook right for holding his weapon by the barrel.
 
Second that on the Black Talons - they're "old tech" now, and will get you extra attention you don't need.

One thing I never liked about the BTs was their designed-in tendency to leave sharp points for a surgeon to prick his fingers on, right through latex gloves. In the AIDS era, opening up that possibility to an innocent doctor trying to save the perp's life is simply uncool...not far different from not checking your backstop in a defensive shoot.

Glasers/Magsafes can be defended in court by explaining the "reduced stray ammo" effoct of frangibles...but you need to know this issue inside and out first.

Jim
 
Valid points on the BTs. I have considered the implications with the ER Dr, and am also considering Triton's Quik Shoks for that reason- similar effect, no sharpies (I currently use Federal Hydra-Shoks). I have read info on frangibles that indicate to me that they're not all they're cracked up to be.

As for the prosecutor and his field day- he can bite me. By that same logic, if I used my Mossberg 590 on a home intruder, I would get "extra attention" due to the "menacing look" of what is obviously not an SG meant for hunting, in addition to the Super-X 00 buckshot and 1 oz. slugs loaded in it. Woe to me if I used my evil black AR-15... :rolleyes: Why should I elect not to use effective tools just because some spineless bastard of a DA might not like it? :confused: As Jeff stated, in TX a justifiable shoot has a 90+% chance of being no-billed- IF the DA even elects to prosecute. The case would be judged on the relevant facts and the totality of the circumstances. I don't see a legitimate self-defense shooting here, being turned into a murder conviction because of the ammunition that was used. Take the recent case of the Austin CHL holder who was acquitted after shooting the critter who broke into his SO's truck. True, he used some admittably bad judgement, and WAS tried, but he was acquitted. I can't think of any other State in the Onion(sic) where that would happen. Anti-social behavior is unacceptable- PERIOD.

DISCLAIMER: I do not speak from bravado. My statements were made based on the facts as I see them. Any rancor/vitriol detected is present because I know the mind-set that AKrob and Jim March describe exists, and it galls me :mad:. My ire is directed at those aforementioned spineless DAs, not my TFL buddies. :cool:

B Shipley,

Perhaps more info is needed: My friend doesn't exactly look like he came from a country club either. He did not recognize them, but they very easily could have been new residents to his apt complex. He did not know they were speaking to him, because he was walking AWAY from them as they went PAST him, and by their comments one could naturally assume they were speaking among themselves, rather than to my friend. He chose not to speak to them, and elected to make for the stairs. He only turned to them AFTER they threw something at him. That being said, I think he should have initially regarded them as more of a threat than he apparently did. As for shooting someone so they can't call in the stolen cards before they're used- that's why I always assume such a scenario is worst-case, and act accordingly.

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Pray as though it's all up to God, act as though it's all up to you.

If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!
 
I woulda blown out that guy's spleen... but thats just me.
Its tough getting confronted by a guy like that... a human predator. You can not rely on the protection from law enforcement. Your person protection is your personal responsability. Wanting to purchas a gun AFTER THE FACT is good preperation for NEXT TIME... however preparation should have started years prior. Its a shame people just have to wait until something bad happens in order to make a logical move to prevention.
Being a victim is something I refuse to let happen. Just ask Mongo the Wonder Tongan... :D
 
Jedi, Jay is right about the 22cal, to start with if your friend knows little about guns.
I started my daughters out on my HS Olympic 22 short at age 10, withen about 3weekends of shooting they were out shooting me.( They still are )
I then moved them up to my BHP, they had such confidence with the 22, the HP didn`t even make them flinch and was out shooting me with it from the getgo.
One of my daughters lives real close now and is right there shooting the m14 rapid fire with me, also my 30-06 with heavy realoads, she shoots it and mones a little but keeps on shooting untill the amo is gone. And Damn she is still out shooting me, pistol, rifle, black powder you name it.
I think to many people start out with to much power and it scares them,build confidence first.

Ps: my daughters are twins, 5ft 2in about 115-120lb

[This message has been edited by B9mmHP (edited July 22, 2000).]
 
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