Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Interesting write Wyosmith. Learned a little today from your experiences. {Looks like I'll have to tweak my lead casting recipe from now on concerning its BHN.} Appreciate your time & effort Sir.
Muzzleloading
- Thread starter hogheaven
- Start date
I've got nothing against conicals, sabots or inlines but I get along just fine with a .54 patch and ball. I don't have the notches in my gun some of you guys do but every deer shot with it has been a complete pass through and haven't required any tracking. Doesn't require any holdover at 75 yards either.
Our muzzle loading season is in january and the weather is usually not great. There have been times I've thought it would be nice to have an inline that I don't have to worry about getting wet, banging it up if I take a spill on ice etc. and a scope would be nice for those end of the day low light shots you sometimes get. If i get one you can bet I will shoot whatever load is accurate and cheap. I don't think deer are THAT hard to kill and pretty much any slug out there should be able to poke a half inch hole clear through one.
Our muzzle loading season is in january and the weather is usually not great. There have been times I've thought it would be nice to have an inline that I don't have to worry about getting wet, banging it up if I take a spill on ice etc. and a scope would be nice for those end of the day low light shots you sometimes get. If i get one you can bet I will shoot whatever load is accurate and cheap. I don't think deer are THAT hard to kill and pretty much any slug out there should be able to poke a half inch hole clear through one.
reynolds357
New member
I have always wanted a .54 I have one .45 and a pile of .50's.
Rifleman1776
New member
cdmcane, the reference was to killing power, not numbers and ballistics. I am primarily a traditional muzzle loading hunter. The only deer I have ever had to trail more than 50 yards (most were less than 20 yards) was a friends bow kill in Kansas.
I know many shooter/hunters are completely hung up on the numbers thing but many of us believe that arithmetic is not what brings down game.
A big, fat, slow moving projectile is often the most effective killer.
Those who are enamored with the 'bigger is better' obsession will never accept that traditional muzzle loading rifle enthusiasts use those guns for reasons more than harvesting animals.
I have about six more paragraphs in me on this subject but will stop before it becomes a long sermon/rant.
I know many shooter/hunters are completely hung up on the numbers thing but many of us believe that arithmetic is not what brings down game.
A big, fat, slow moving projectile is often the most effective killer.
Those who are enamored with the 'bigger is better' obsession will never accept that traditional muzzle loading rifle enthusiasts use those guns for reasons more than harvesting animals.
I have about six more paragraphs in me on this subject but will stop before it becomes a long sermon/rant.
i first got into muzzleloading in the early 60s in southern MD. i met an old man who was dragging a huge buck deer and carrying an old muzzleloader. Dragged the deer out for him and helped load it on his truck. Chatted with him for awhile and drank his coffee.
He said i should be hunting with a muzzleloader instead of my shotgun and slugs. "Uncle" Joe was nearly 80 years old when i met him. He had killed hundreds of deer with patched round balls. "Uncle" Joe tutored me in muzzleloaders and gave me a couple original guns. We often hunted together until about 1975.
This year i killed my first deer in decades using patched round ball. The gun is a .50 caliber TC New Englander rifle. The deer was about 35 yards from my tree stand: At the shot she bang flopped. The ball was found under the skin on the off side.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll268/alsaqr/DSC01576.jpg
FrankenMauser
New member
Best I've ever seen?....
Patched round balls.
I've seen everything from sabots with 200 gr HPs to 750 gr (.54 cal) "Sledgehammer" bullets used for deer. Round balls with a moderate powder charge (such as 70-90 gr FFg in .54 cal) kicked their butts. Round balls with a heavy charge (such as 100-130 gr FFg or 90+ gr FFFg in .54 cal) were brutal and unnecessary.
Patched round balls.
I've seen everything from sabots with 200 gr HPs to 750 gr (.54 cal) "Sledgehammer" bullets used for deer. Round balls with a moderate powder charge (such as 70-90 gr FFg in .54 cal) kicked their butts. Round balls with a heavy charge (such as 100-130 gr FFg or 90+ gr FFFg in .54 cal) were brutal and unnecessary.
Fine looking doe thallub.
While I do enjoy the PRB shot out of one of my trusty sidelocks, I also enjoy taking deer with my inlines.
Started out shooting BP in the late 60's when the 'ole' flinters cussed the caplock'ers the same way a few caplock'ers of today cuss the inliners.
Too, the longbow archers back then cussed the compound bow archers much the same way the compound bow archers of today currently cuss the crossbow users.
Funny how that works isn't it.
But back on topic...far as deer sized animals are concerned , they just aren't that hard to kill with anything from a .22 on up with the proper shot placement. And certainly not with a roundball, conical or sabot out of a bp rifle the size of 45cal.and up. Again, with proper shot placement.
IMO, the answer to the OP's question is simply the projectile that flies best out of his bp rifle. And the only way to tell which is the best 'killer' is to pull some range time shooting different bullets/loads and finding his rifle's 'sweet spot' for a hunting load at the probable max. distance he is going to shoot to.
If he can consistently put that chunk of lead through the paper plate at that distance with a respectable hunting charge , it's a dead deer.
In other words...my 'ultimate, jump back, 'best in the world' bullet' may not fly worth squat in your rifle.
Too, seems to me, to advise the OP of choices to use out of his m/l'er would require a bit more info from him.
What rifle and bbl. twist rate for example.
While I do enjoy the PRB shot out of one of my trusty sidelocks, I also enjoy taking deer with my inlines.
Started out shooting BP in the late 60's when the 'ole' flinters cussed the caplock'ers the same way a few caplock'ers of today cuss the inliners.
Too, the longbow archers back then cussed the compound bow archers much the same way the compound bow archers of today currently cuss the crossbow users.
Funny how that works isn't it.
But back on topic...far as deer sized animals are concerned , they just aren't that hard to kill with anything from a .22 on up with the proper shot placement. And certainly not with a roundball, conical or sabot out of a bp rifle the size of 45cal.and up. Again, with proper shot placement.
IMO, the answer to the OP's question is simply the projectile that flies best out of his bp rifle. And the only way to tell which is the best 'killer' is to pull some range time shooting different bullets/loads and finding his rifle's 'sweet spot' for a hunting load at the probable max. distance he is going to shoot to.
If he can consistently put that chunk of lead through the paper plate at that distance with a respectable hunting charge , it's a dead deer.
In other words...my 'ultimate, jump back, 'best in the world' bullet' may not fly worth squat in your rifle.
Too, seems to me, to advise the OP of choices to use out of his m/l'er would require a bit more info from him.
What rifle and bbl. twist rate for example.
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"This year i killed my first deer in decades using patched round ball."
Meant to say this is the first deer i have killed using patched round ball in decades.
Got back into muzzleloader hunting in 1999 with the purchase of a .50 inline. Since then i've killed about 40 whitetail deer and oodles of wild hogs using the Hornady 240 grain .430 XTP bullet and the .45 SST bullet. Both are very deadly on deer and wild hogs.
Those bullets were chosen for their accuracy when fired from my guns. Lots of other bullets will perform just as well; when put in the right place.
Then Ft. Sill mandated the use of conventional muzzleloaders during the first week of their primitive season. No sabots, scopes or fiber optic sights allowed: PRB or old style conicals only. i chose the patched round ball.
Shot placement is critical. No bullet will magically transform a gut shot into a bang flop.
Meant to say this is the first deer i have killed using patched round ball in decades.
Got back into muzzleloader hunting in 1999 with the purchase of a .50 inline. Since then i've killed about 40 whitetail deer and oodles of wild hogs using the Hornady 240 grain .430 XTP bullet and the .45 SST bullet. Both are very deadly on deer and wild hogs.
Those bullets were chosen for their accuracy when fired from my guns. Lots of other bullets will perform just as well; when put in the right place.
Then Ft. Sill mandated the use of conventional muzzleloaders during the first week of their primitive season. No sabots, scopes or fiber optic sights allowed: PRB or old style conicals only. i chose the patched round ball.
Shot placement is critical. No bullet will magically transform a gut shot into a bang flop.
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I'm kind of surprised at holdover at 75yds for a .45(?) Hawken.
I wouldn't expect significant drop at that distance for any type of projectile with a muzzle velocity greater than 1000fps.
Not surprised that a .54 ball out preforms a .45 bullet or sabot. I'm skeptical about it out preforming a .54 conical. That seems to break the laws of physics.
Wouldn't a .54 minie(or other conical) have greater mass than the same caliber ball and at the same velocity have greater energy at impact? Given the same alloy wouldn't they have the same tendency to deform?
I wouldn't expect significant drop at that distance for any type of projectile with a muzzle velocity greater than 1000fps.
Not surprised that a .54 ball out preforms a .45 bullet or sabot. I'm skeptical about it out preforming a .54 conical. That seems to break the laws of physics.
Wouldn't a .54 minie(or other conical) have greater mass than the same caliber ball and at the same velocity have greater energy at impact? Given the same alloy wouldn't they have the same tendency to deform?
Rifleman1776
New member
Final thought from me.
The traditional muzzle loading rifle using a patched round ball and black powder is a throwback to an obsolete style of shooting.
It is not a modern gun.
Those of us who use such do so because we love preserving history.
The round ball ml is, unarguably, an inferior gun compared to modern big bangers. But, it is a highly effective game killer WITHIN IT'S EFFECTIVE RANGE and in the hands of an ethical, practiced shooter.
You don't like it? Then do what pleases you, not me. I'm sticking with my .45 cal. prb flintlock rifle thank you.
The traditional muzzle loading rifle using a patched round ball and black powder is a throwback to an obsolete style of shooting.
It is not a modern gun.
Those of us who use such do so because we love preserving history.
The round ball ml is, unarguably, an inferior gun compared to modern big bangers. But, it is a highly effective game killer WITHIN IT'S EFFECTIVE RANGE and in the hands of an ethical, practiced shooter.
You don't like it? Then do what pleases you, not me. I'm sticking with my .45 cal. prb flintlock rifle thank you.
myfriendis410
New member
Final thought from me.
The traditional muzzle loading rifle using a patched round ball and black powder is a throwback to an obsolete style of shooting.
It is not a modern gun.
Those of us who use such do so because we love preserving history.
The round ball ml is, unarguably, an inferior gun compared to modern big bangers. But, it is a highly effective game killer WITHIN IT'S EFFECTIVE RANGE and in the hands of an ethical, practiced shooter.
You don't like it? Then do what pleases you, not me. I'm sticking with my .45 cal. prb flintlock rifle thank you.
Rifleman1776 is offline Report Post
Well said! We all get out for different reasons. The whole point of hunting after all is not killing something but experiencing all there is out in the woods (where most of us belong).
The traditional muzzle loading rifle using a patched round ball and black powder is a throwback to an obsolete style of shooting.
It is not a modern gun.
Those of us who use such do so because we love preserving history.
The round ball ml is, unarguably, an inferior gun compared to modern big bangers. But, it is a highly effective game killer WITHIN IT'S EFFECTIVE RANGE and in the hands of an ethical, practiced shooter.
You don't like it? Then do what pleases you, not me. I'm sticking with my .45 cal. prb flintlock rifle thank you.
Rifleman1776 is offline Report Post
Well said! We all get out for different reasons. The whole point of hunting after all is not killing something but experiencing all there is out in the woods (where most of us belong).
reynolds357
New member
The round ball is actually a throwback to the musket. I am not being critical, I am just asking a question I do not know the answer to: What is the point of shooting a round ball from a rifled barrel?