Must Inform Homeowner?

[BumbleBug]

I live in Texas & I got my original CHL many years ago & I have renewed it once. I know many here in TFL have really delved deep into the Texas laws, but I am going on what was taught in the training courses that I attended. My "concealed handgun" must remain concealed & the moment it becomes "unconcealed" I have broken the law, regardless of the circumstance even in a deadly force situation or I am subject to arrest. It is hoped that in an extreme SD situation, the charges will be dismissed & dropped before going to trial.

Even in states where they have this "must tell home owner rule", like has been said, if the carrier is doing his job, no one will ever know who is carrying. As to the issue of it being a personal courtesy to the owner, I suggest they don't let someone they don't trust into their home.

 

[jnichols2]

I am also a Texas CHL holder.

Nothing in Texas law says I can't let my friends know that I'm a CHL holder.

Others in this thread, and myself, have mentioned to friends:
"Hey Joe, you know I'm a CHL holder. What's your preference?"

I keep stressing this, and today's generation just doesn't get it:
IT'S THIER HOME, THEY , AND ONLY THEM, HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE !!!

To put your friends and family in the class "what they don't know..."
JUST ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH !!!

If you can't handle that, DON'T GO TO THIER HOUSE !!!

If a friend of 30 years does that to me, and violates my house, HE'S GONE.

I'm sure I would say OK if he asked, but if he sneaked it in thinking I wouldn't know.....
There are other people I would say no.

Bottom line, it's MY DECISION in MY HOUSE.
Why is that so hard to understand ????

 

[BumbleBug]

I am also a Texas CHL holder.

Nothing in Texas law says I can't let my friends know that I'm a CHL holder.

Maybe you misinterpreted what I wrote. You can tell anyone you want that you have a CHL, but you are not carrying concealed if you show your gun to someone or brandish the gun.

I keep stressing this, and today's generation just doesn't get it:
IT'S THIER HOME, THEY , AND ONLY THEM, HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE !!!

To put your friends and family in the class "what they don't know..."
JUST ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH !!!

If you can't handle that, DON'T GO TO THIER HOUSE !!!

If a friend of 30 years does that to me, and violates my house, HE'S GONE.

Not sure what generation you're talking about(?) Who you let in your house & under what circumstances is a personal choice. I don't let just anyone in my house either, but I do trust the people that I let in. If you had a sign in front of your house or you told me flat out "no-guns" I WOULDN'T GO TO YOUR HOUSE with one.

Why is that so hard to understand ????

Me too ????

Addressing the OP, if the concealed part of the law is similar to Texas, & if you are in SC & you are at a private residence & you didn't declare "I'm armed" you would be guilty of 2 crimes instead of 1 in a situation where your gun becomes unconcealed. That being said, I recommend always obeying the law, but the situation is pretty much moot if you can keep your gun properly concealed.

JIMHO...

 

[Koda94]

Your fallacy is in thinking it's YOUR decision.

That's no different than saying "I don't have to ask her consent for sex, asking would be opening a can of worms unnecessarily.

IT'S THE HOME OWNER'S DECISION.

In my state it is my decision, I have no lawful requirement to inform anyone if I am carrying.

you misunderstood my post, nothing I suggested was against the law unlike rape which has zero comparison to carry laws

Its the home owners decision to ask or inform guests of any requirement for entry to his home.

 

[jnichols2]

Maybe you misinterpreted what I wrote. You can tell anyone you want that you have a CHL, but you are not carrying concealed if you show your gun to someone or brandish the gun.

You didn't misinterpret what I said, you re-wrote it.

At no point did I ever suggest to show or brandish your gun.
I recommended a prior conversation with your friend to see how he feels.

If he says no, Like Johnny Cash said "Leave your guns at home, son".

Not sure what generation you're talking about(?) Who you let in your house & under what circumstances is a personal choice. I don't let just anyone in my house either, but I do trust the people that I let in. If you had a sign in front of your house or you told me flat out "no-guns" I WOULDN'T GO TO YOUR HOUSE with one.

Demanding a homeowner plant a sign saying "no guns" is the same as demanding a church plant a sign saying "no drinking or gambling in church".
Just because I didn't post a sign, doesn't mean it's OK.

You, that's the generation I'm referring to, have it mixed up.
Learn a little about property owner's rights. (rentors enjoy the same rights)
It's not the homeowner's responsibility to post signs about unwanted behavior.
It's the guest's responsibility to determine the appropriateness of behavior.

It's not your house !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I come into your house, I will ask first.

Just because you want to take your gun everywhere, doesn't mean you always have the right to.

If you think you have to be sneaky about it, you are already assuming non-consent.

The SC law states you must get prior express permission under any circumstances. If you don't you are guilty of failing to get prior permission.

In another state, not having such law, you may still be guilty of bringing in a deadly weapon if a jury can be convinced you suspected non-consent, and intended to deceive the home owner to overcome non-consent.

You have a right to swing your fist, but that right ends at the tip of MY nose.

Man up and determine your friend's wishes. If he doesn't want you to carry in his house, suck it up and get over it.

Besides, you don't NEED a gun in MY house. At least not without my express permission.
I'm the only one who needs a gun in MY house.

 

[Technosavant]

I don't ask if it's ok if I bring my pocketknife, cell phone, or anything else in. If I know the person isn't that comfortable with guns I won't even ask, I'll just leave it at home. But no, I don't ask every time.

It's the homeowner's right to determine what they allow but sorry, I don't really think it's mandatory for a visitor to ask permission for every thing they might have on their person at the time. If the homeowner is that touchy then I strongly suggest said person be very proactive in letting guests know what items do need permission. I agree that signs are silly, but "Hey, I know you're into guns, do you have one?" isn't unreasonable.

If I knew a friend didn't want me to bring one, fine. I wouldn't bring one in. But I'd at least expect him to let me know what I needed to ask about beforehand.

 

[jnichols2]

You are basically right, but it is a few steps between a pocket knife and cell phone to a gun.

It's not that hard to figure out what is mundane and what is something that should be put up for consideration. I mean, a gun is a pretty big deal.

Also, even a buddy that I would trust with a gun, I would consider checking with me as proper respect. I would feel obligated to pay him the same respect.

If someone in a public place has a gun, it's not really my right to be informed. But in my house, it's my business to know and decide.

 

[TXAZ]

What ever happened to common sense and courtesy? I'm not going to inflame someone intentionally, particularly if armed, and don't believe you should go where you're not wanted.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

You made my case, you just don't understand.

When you are a guest in someone else's house, they don't have to post signs, YOU have to ask permission. Whether to smoke, bring your gun, or go into their kitchen for food or drink.

In another's castle, you are a guest, not the king.

I didn't make your case. I understand completely. The only case made is an argument that you have unrealistic expectations of people. If I am in someone's house as a guest, I expect that IF there are any special rules of the house the owner will inform his/her guests of the special rules. If not, guests are free to proceed on the basis that there are no special rules.

You, on the other hand, expect guests to seek permission to engage in a lawful activity rather than for you, as the person who objects to said lawful activity, to simply let your guests know what you expect of them.

I think that's exceptionally unreasonable of you.

It's not that hard to figure out what is mundane and what is something that should be put up for consideration. I mean, a gun is a pretty big deal.

I think we've just identified the crux of the matter. To YOU, perhaps a gun is a big deal. To people who carry every day, and have done so for ten, twenty, thirty years or more, a gun simply is NOT a big deal. It's no more of a big deal than a pocket knife or a ballpoint pen. I reiterate: If a gun is a big deal to you, then it's your responsibility to let people know. It's unfair and unrealistic to expect that people to whom guns are not even a little deal should know that guns are such a big deal to you.

If someone in a public place has a gun, it's not really my right to be informed. But in my house, it's my business to know and decide.

Then ask. Or post.

 

[JohnKSa]

A lot of you really believe that if you want to take a gun (or fill in the blank) to somebody's house, they have no right to object, or even know about it.

They have every right to object. They have every right to tell people that concealed carry is not allowed in their house. They have every right to bar concealed carriers from their house. They have every right to post signs barring concealed carriers from their house.

Do they have a right to know if I'm carrying? Nope.

Nothing in Texas law says I can't let my friends know that I'm a CHL holder.

That's true. You can wear a sign if you want to. However, and this is more to the point, nothing in TX law says I have to tell anyone (other than law enforcement) that I'm carrying. In fact, TX law actually says that no one has a right to know that I even have a CHL unless I choose to tell them or unless they are in law enforcement.

If a homeowner posts signs or tells me not to carry in their house then I won't carry there. It's their house, their rules.

If they ask me if I'm carrying, I won't tell them. As a rule, I don't tell anyone when I'm carrying or generally even that I carry at all. I would either deflect the question or simply say that I don't discuss that topic. If they ask me to leave for refusing to answer, I would certainly do so. It's their house and they have a right to control who is in it.

However, I don't feel that I must list everything I have on my person before I enter someone's house in order to be courteous. As long as I'm not breaking any laws and as long as I'm not violating anyone's stated wishes then the contents of my pockets and any other items on my person are nobody's business but mine.

IT'S THIER HOME, THEY , AND ONLY THEM, HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE !!!

Absolutely correct. A homeowner can set any rules (within the bounds of the law) for his/her own home.

To put your friends and family in the class "what they don't know..."
JUST ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH !!!

That's your opinion. I've not seen any facts to support the claim that it's despicable to carry a concealed weapon on private property, or into a private home without warning the homeowner and that's what it will take to establish fact. Opinions, even when strongly held, even when stated in red, boldface, capital letters don't establish fact.

If a friend of 30 years does that to me, and violates my house, HE'S GONE.

That's certainly your prerogative. Anyone can stop being friends with anyone, anytime they want, for any reason they choose. However, the idea that someone "violates" another persons house by not fully disclosing everything they're legally carrying on their person when they enter is, as I say, not a common opinion and it certainly isn't required by law.

That's no different than saying "I don't have to ask her consent for sex, asking would be opening a can of worms unnecessarily.

That's complete horsehockey, and that's being charitable. Having sex with someone without their consent is a felony--it is a serious crime in any civilized society. Not disclosing all the legal items that you are carrying before entering a house is perfectly legal. In fact, in my state, the law even protects my right to conceal the fact that I am carrying from everyone besides law enforcement.

But in my house, it's my business to know and decide.

It's your right to decide, it's not your right to know. You can certainly bar concealed carriers from your house, but you don't have the right to demand that someone tell you that they are carrying, nor the right to compel them to respond if you question them. They don't have to tell you and you have no legal right to know if they're carrying.

You would be well within your rights to refuse them entry (or ask them to leave) for not responding if you question them, but you are absolutely mistaken to believe that it is your "business to know" if someone is carrying. It is not your business if they're carrying or not. It IS your right to deny them access to your property and house, but that's where it ends.

 

[jnichols2]

First, Merry Christmas.

I want to try to defend my point without any rhetoric.

Most of us seem to be avid believers in the 2nd Amendment, and our right to bear arms. That's admirable.

We expect all others to respect our rights, good. But that means we should also respect their rights. Sometimes, as in your right to swing your fist ends at my nose, we need to deal with conflicting rights.

The 3rd Amendment refers to the British quartering of soldiers, and gets very little attention today. But it's intent was to protect the sanctity of a man's home. Much of our legal system goes back to British Common Law (not necessarily written down or voted on). A part of it that we Americans cherish says "a man's home is his castle", strong words.

Many of our states, including a lot that refuse the right to carry weapons, have some sort of Castle Doctrine (may go under various names).

At times, these two rights may collide, such as entering another's home while armed. That's not a small thing. Our forefathers were very wary of those that "came bearing arms". In those days, folks were expected to carry arms openly so others could see just who was armed. "Hidey Guns" were considered to be both cowardly and low. A lot has changed since then.

Nowadays, open carry is not the norm, concealed carry has mostly replaced it. That doesn't mean a homeowner has no concern of "those bearing arms", only that that caution is largely forgotten.

I have voiced my disagreement as to "just not telling", or "you should post a sign". Do you have signs posted? If so, do they cover any and all eventualities? Would I be correct if I told you, after the drug bust, that your sign didn't explicitly cover that?

We're not arguing in court. Civilized people have developed norms of behavior. They are not written into any law, or posted on signs around our homes. They are called courtesies. The root word of courtesy is "court". Like courtesies, many of our "Common Laws" are not written down.

If you performed a poll, you might find "Sanctity of the Home" and "Right to Bear Arms" very high on the list of important rights. My bet is they would appear as 1 & 2, in the order I listed.

We all want our "Right to Bear Arms" to be respected. How can we expect that if we don't respect the "Sanctity of the Home" for another? That's all I have been saying.

In one word R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

We all want our "Right to Bear Arms" to be respected. How can we expect that if we don't respect the "Sanctity of the Home" for another? That's all I have been saying.

Not one single participant in this discussion has even hinted that your right to control what enters your house is not or should not be respected. Not one single participant in this discussion has even hinted that he or she does not respect the sanctity of your home. ALL we have said is that, under the principle of "Your house, your rules," it is YOUR responsibility to state what YOUR rules are.

We're not arguing in court. Civilized people have developed norms of behavior. They are not written into any law, or posted on signs around our homes. They are called courtesies. The root word of courtesy is "court". Like courtesies, many of our "Common Laws" are not written down.

That's a very erudite-appearing red herring, since the etymology of the words "courtesy" and "courteous" does, indeed, derive from the old French word for "court," but is not related to courts of law, as you imply. In fact, the word refers to and is derived from the somewhat ritualized or stylized practices of polite behavior found in the courts of royalty. It has nothing to do with common law or courts of law.

 

[jnichols2]

Not one single participant in this discussion has even hinted that your right to control what enters your house is not or should not be respected. Not one single participant in this discussion has even hinted that he or she does not respect the sanctity of your home. ALL we have said is that, under the principle of "Your house, your rules," it is YOUR responsibility to state what YOUR rules are.

I was raised to "ask the host first" in all regards.

You, obviously, expect the host to post signs on the side of his trailer.

To each his own. There are some people I would NEVER invite to my house.

Don't bother to respond. I have interests elsewhere.

 

[Tom Servo]

The legalities have long since been hashed out, and now we're just sniping at each other.