Must Inform Homeowner?

[steve4102]

This is from SC Firearms Laws.

SECTION 23-31-225. Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings.


No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate. A person who violates this provision is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.

http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaws.aspx?MenuID=CWP

What exactly does this mean?

Does it mean if asked one must leave, or does it mean that one must inform the Homeowner one is carrying, then ask for permission before entering?

 

[jnichols2]

It means both. Simple. It means MY home is my Castle. The emphasis means it's MY home, not yours. The law lets ME decide who enters my home armed.

You would need my permission to bring a gun into my house (or to bring "fill in the blank") My generation was taught that by our parents.

Simply put, my right to control my own home trumps your right to take your gun any where.

With that said: Texas doesn't have that law. But I would never dream of taking a loaded gun into my host's home without his/her knowledge and consent. To do so would change me from a guest to an intruder.

To go further, forcing or sneaking yourself into another's home with a deadly weapon is a shooting offense in Texas.

 

[JohnKSa]

To go further, forcing or sneaking yourself into another's home with a deadly weapon is a shooting offense in Texas.

Well, sorta. Illegally entering an occupied domicile (i.e. breaking in or forcing your way in) in TX is grounds for use of deadly force by the resident whether or not you're carrying a weapon.

To do so would change me from a guest to an intruder.

Only by your own definition of "intruder". There's nothing TX law, or even in the general definition of the word "intruder" that would imply you become an intruder simply by failing to notify a homeowner of everything in your possession upon entry to their house. That said, if you KNOW that the homeowner has permitted you into the house only because he thinks you are unarmed, then it might be possible to make the case that you would be intruding.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

But I would never dream of taking a loaded gun into my host's home without his/her knowledge and consent. To do so would change me from a guest to an intruder.

There are a few states that have such a law, but not many. But ... make me an intruder? I disagree. If you know people who don't use marijuana but you do, would you ask permission to have a roach in your pocket when visiting their home? Are you an intruder if you don't ask? How about an ordinary folding knife? Under the laws of many states, ANY knife is a weapon, and the larger ones that many "gun" people carry for backup are almost certainly "weapons" under the laws of most states. Are you an intruder if you enter a friend's home with a knife in your pocket without first seeking permission?

 

[jnichols2]

By Aguila Blanca: There are a few states that have such a law, but not many. But ... make me an intruder? I disagree. If you know people who don't use marijuana but you do, would you ask permission to have a roach in your pocket when visiting their home? Are you an intruder if you don't ask? How about an ordinary folding knife? Under the laws of many states, ANY knife is a weapon, and the larger ones that many "gun" people carry for backup are almost certainly "weapons" under the laws of most states. Are you an intruder if you enter a friend's home with a knife in your pocket without first seeking permission?

Did I mention "under the law"?

If you bring something in my home thinking I'll never know, maybe something will go wrong.

If you accidentally drop it in my bathroom and someone next door gets hit; it's me, not you, that gets sued. I have a RIGHT to know that supersedes YOUR right to "sneak" it in.

At that point, you are an "intruder" whether I know it or not.

If you come in my house and whip out your Roscoe (or drop it, or "paint"), you INSTANTLY become known as an intruder. At that point, I would demand, not ask, that you leave. And you stand a VERY good chance of getting shot if you point me or don't immediately leave.

If you accidentally drop it in my bathroom and someone next door gets hit; it's me, not you, that gets sued.

But I wasn't only talking "lawyer" jingo. I was talking having respect for another's home. That seems to be a forgotten courtesy in this country.

If I'm invited to another's house, I will ask permission before bringing ANYTHING out of the ordinary. That would include my kids or dog. After all, it's THIER house, NOT mine.

Your generation seems to have forgotten that.

 

[Onward Allusion]

With that said: Texas doesn't have that law. But I would never dream of taking a loaded gun into my host's home without his/her knowledge and consent. To do so would change me from a guest to an intruder.

If State law doesn't have that requirement, I would not announce to ANYONE that I am carrying a CONCEALED weapon.

Think about it . . . I go to an estate or garage sale and I inform the homeowner that I am carrying a gun. I wonder how that's going to go over?

How about you go out on a date and the first thing you do is tell the person that you are carrying a gun in their home. . . I could come up with a dozen other scenarios that you would not want to do that.

 

[BumbleBug]

The main idea behind CC is the "concealed" part. No one knows or should know.

 

[Spats McGee]

The main idea behind CC is the "concealed" part. No one knows or should know.

Nonetheless, in some states it is the law that one carrying a concealed weapon must inform the person or persons in control of a dwelling. It looks like it's the case in SC that one must not only inform, but get permission first.

 

[kraigwy]

If you accidentally drop it in my bathroom and someone next door gets hit;

No modern handgun is going to discharge if dropped. If you keep your finger off the trigger, it is not going to go off.

Even so, if you "drop it" you need to re-evaluate you're gun handling or method of carry.

If you brandish your "roscoe" as someone mentioned you need your a$$ kicked.

Concealed is concealed, no one should know if you are carrying or not.

I can just see it. knock on the door, you open it and there stand Mr. Dude, "hi, I have a gun, I'm selling magazine subscriptions, are you interested".

Guns or no guns, people need to THINK.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It should be against the law to allow anyone to carry a gun and call it a 'roscoe'.

I personally would not allow the term to be used in my house and you would be asked to leave.

Also, most modern guns are drop safe, with a few manufacturing screw ups - so if the guest is doing their business and drop their gun, it shouldn't go off. Now if your guest is carrying an old SAA or unmodified Ruger single action revolver, they may have their gun go off. So why not ban that kind of roscoe.

Or forbid anyone to use the can? You can get a 30.06 sign to put on the door of the john.

I don't think carrying is out of the ordinary. I've been in many TX homes with carriers and no one yet has blown up the can (unless you consider the effect of black beans).

Unless there is a state law, I don't see the problem. Just put a no gun sign outside the house.

 

[madmo44mag]

I can just see it. knock on the door, you open it and there stand Mr. Dude, "hi, I have a gun, I'm selling magazine subscriptions, are you interested".

Here it would be a knock on the door and "Sir that is a nice gun you have there. You don't need any magazine subscriptions do ya!"

 

[Tom Servo]

If State law doesn't have that requirement, I would not announce to ANYONE that I am carrying a CONCEALED weapon.

My home is a different entity, legally and philosophically, than public property. I have a greater deal of latitude in what I do and don't allow there. I also have an expectation of courtesy, which is something that seems to be falling by the wayside.

Frankly, I know more than a few people I wouldn't want carrying in my house for various reasons. If one of them snuck a gun in, we'd have ourselves a problem and that person wouldn't be welcome. Sometimes, the "well, it's legal" refrain really grates.

So far as I know, only Illinois and SC have a legal duty to inform.

It should be against the law to allow anyone to carry a gun and call it a 'roscoe'.

How about "heater?" I don't hear that one much any more.

 

[jnichols2]

It's really sad how some people think nowadays.

A lot of you really believe that if you want to take a gun (or fill in the blank) to somebody's house, they have no right to object, or even know about it.

The "ME" generation really does exist.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

If you accidentally drop it in my bathroom and someone next door gets hit; it's me, not you, that gets sued. I have a RIGHT to know that supersedes YOUR right to "sneak" it in.

At that point, you are an "intruder" whether I know it or not.

No, unless you have posted a conspicuous notice that firearms (or weapons) are not allowed in your house, then I am NOT an intruder, I am a friend paying you a friendly visit.

After reading about this notification requirement being the law in one of the southern states (Alabama, maybe? Arkansas?), I asked a couple of friends whose homes I visit frequently if I should be asking them anytime I show up heeled. The younger one, who lives a couple of miles from me and has young children, just said "Why?"

The other one said, "Hell no. I'd only be upset if you weren't carrying, because then I'd have to protect you as well as me."

You certainly have every right to control what you allow in your house. That said, I don't think it's fair to engage in passive-aggressive behavior and expect people who are carrying in full compliance with the law to know that they are supposed to ask you if they can exercise their rights before entering your house.

I don't allow smoking in my house. Currently, I have no friends who smoke. When I did, I posted "No Smoking In the House" signs at both entrance doors. No, I didn't want smoke in the house. It was my responsibility to tell people that.

A lot of you really believe that if you want to take a gun (or fill in the blank) to somebody's house, they have no right to object, or even know about it.

Don't go putting words in people's keyboards. Nobody said you have no right to object, and nobody said you have no right to know. We respect that it's your house. If you don't want guns in your house, post a sign. If you want to know whether or not someone is carrying -- ask. Otherwise, I am exercising a legal right and I have no legal or moral obligation to ask anyone's permission to do so (except in those states that make it a legal requirement to notify or to ask permission).

 

[BarryLee]

To be honest I couldn’t imagine carrying a gun into someone else’s home without their permission. I’m not trying to sit in judgment over others, but for me it just not something I’d do.

 

[guruatbol]

At one time I had no choice to carry because of real threats against my life.

My brother and sister-in-law don't like firearms. I know this. I was on my way to some training and we stopped to visit for the weekend.

It goes without saying I was packing. Since I was going to training I had a duty weapon and my personal off duty weapon.

When I entered their house I told them and asked them if they had a place they would like me to store them. The duty weapon was in my brief case unloaded. My personal was holstered and loaded.

I locked the brief case and put it in the bedroom. I went to the car and unloaded my Glock and also took it to the bedroom and locked it in the brief case.

If you are visiting someone you know, you will also know their views and know how they would likely like you to act.

In my case I only have a couple of people who don't care for firearms. So just a bit of courtesy goes a long way! Law or not!

Mel

 

[jnichols2]

No, unless you have posted a conspicuous notice that firearms (or weapons) are not allowed in your house, then I am NOT an intruder, I am a friend paying you a friendly visit.

If you don't want guns in your house, post a sign. If you want to know whether or not someone is carrying -- ask. Otherwise, I am exercising a legal right and I have no legal or moral obligation to ask anyone's permission to do so (except in those states that make it a legal requirement to notify or to ask permission).

You made my case, you just don't understand.

When you are a guest in someone else's house, they don't have to post signs, YOU have to ask permission. Whether to smoke, bring your gun, or go into their kitchen for food or drink.

In another's castle, you are a guest, not the king.

Yes, you do have a moral obligation, and in many states a legal one.

Don't get too wrapped around the axle over Texas 30-06 signs either. Those are only required in order to prosecute someone for carrying, as a crime in itself. That law DOES NOT give ANYBODY the right to carry a deadly weapon into someone's home.

Ignoring Common Law can bring a heap of hurt to a body.
Do what your mother may have tried to teach you -- ASK PERMISSION.

 

[Spats McGee]

. . . .So far as I know, only Illinois and SC have a legal duty to inform.

Add Arkansas to your list:

Any licensee entering a private home shall notify the occupant that the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun.

Ark. Code Ann. § 5-73-306 (West)

. . . . After reading about this notification requirement being the law in one of the southern states (Alabama, maybe? Arkansas?), . . .

I'm not sure about Alabama, but it could well have been Arkansas.

As far as people that I know well, the simplest way that I've found to handle the duty to inform is to ask them for standing permission to carry in their homes. It's a pretty easy conversation: "Hey, Bob. You know that I carry all the time, right? If I come to your house, I'm required by law to inform you that I'm carrying. I really don't want to have to have the same conversation over and over, so how about we just always assume that I'm carrying if I come over?" I don't visit many people, but the ones I do visit have never had a problem with this standing notification.

As far as folks that I don't know well, . . . that's a different problem. If I want to go to their house, my options are: (1) inform; or (2) disarm. There is no legal third option.

 

[Koda94]

I’m not going to look it up, but I think Alaska has the law to notify the home owner.

Reality is there is no need to inform anyone your carrying concealed unless its the law to do so. Your really opening a can of worms by unnecessarily doing so if you choose to. Even if the home-owner is gun friendly, everyone seems to have a different logic on how, when, where, why etc. to carry and now said home-owner is forced to make a decision or create rules that you may or most likely may not like, and you put him in that position by disclosing... unless its the law, there is no need to go there for something that will never be revealed in the first place.

 

[jnichols2]

Your fallacy is in thinking it's YOUR decision.

That's no different than saying "I don't have to ask her consent for sex, asking would be opening a can of worms unnecessarily.

IT'S THE HOME OWNER'S DECISION.