Murder by Cops, again!

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

AUTiger73

New member
The following story is yet another example of the power of the police state we've allowed to exist in this country. Yet another reason to have a loaded "assault rifle" near your bed and you better load it with AP ammo. It seems this type story is repeated all to often in this country.
http://www.tennessean.com/sii/00/10/06/shooting06.shtml

Innocent Man Dies in Police Blunder

By Warren Duzak / Staff Writer

LEBANON (TN) - About 10 p.m. Wednesday, John Adams, 64, settled into his tan recliner to watch television for the last time, his cane within easy reach.

At the moment outside Adams' door, Lebanon
police officers Kyle Shedran, 25, and Greg Day, 24, stood armed and prepared for the worst.

In the darkness, five to seven other officers were there for backup.

Shedran and Day knocked. Adams' wife, Loriane, 61, moved to the door.

In the next moment, everyone's lives changed forever, victims of a horrendous mistake.

Day and Shedran were at the wrong house and knocking on the wrong door.

"It was a severe, costly mistake," Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks said at an afternoon news conference yesterday. "They were not the target of our investigation. We hate that it happened."

By then John Adams had been dead more than 12 hours, shot to death by Shedran and Day after, they said, Adams shot at them with a sawed-off shotgun.

Friends and relatives said John Adams believed it was a home invasion when police kicked in the door after refusing to identify themselves.

"They made a mistake, and he was trying to defend his home, and they shot him," said Edward Bell, Adams' nephew.

Others were not prepared to offer even a hint of understanding.

"They murdered my best friend," said former Wilson County Commissioner Natchel Palmer. "They got the wrong damn house and killed my friend."

Police details of what happenned in the Adams' house at 70 Joseph St. were sketchy. Weeks said he has called in the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation to conduct the investigation.

Even the arrest warrant, which had the right address but the wrong description of the home, is in TBI possession, Weeks said.

Loriane Adams' explanation has been filtered through relatives.

"I don't want to go through it again," she said yesterday, sitting on the front deck of her home, surrounded by friends and family, all angry with the police.

"He believed in the system, and the system let him down," said Star Moore, sister of the dead man.

Bell said his aunt told him police knocked but would not identify themselves when she asked who they were.

They knocked again, and she asked again who it was.

Then they broke down the door, handcuffed Loriane Adams and went around the corner where John Adams sat and shot him several times, Bell said. Family members deny Adams shot at police.

Investigators had cut out a large chunk from one wall in the house as proof.

Police were looking for someone living in the house next door, the only other home on the short street.

Residents there refused to allow a reporter on the property yesterday.

Weeks said the intended house was known to police. It had been under police surveillance and a drug purchase had been made from one of the residents, he said. That was the basis for the warrant.
..... and there is more ....
____________________________

My comment: This could happens to anybody.
Even though the victim was black, I don't see this as a racial thing. Murder by cops is "equal opportunity victimization". You too could have a neighbor selling drugs and the police could raid your house my mistake.

In the American police state we live in there is good reason to fear the COPs more than the criminals because the COPs are better trained and equipted and they have the POWER to end your life without consequences. Don't believe it? Check out the latest on the Colorado MURDER BY COPS which were tried and convicted of a misdeamor.

Better get your exterior motion sensor alarm system set up so you will have time to "lock-n-load."
____________
Check out the local discussion thread at Nashville Digest:
http://nashville.citydigest.com/news.ez?viewStory=9532

[This message has been edited by AUTiger73 (edited October 06, 2000).]
 
While this is a horrible screw-up which leaves me pretty enraged myself, I think it's a disservice to LEOs to call this a "murder". Murder inplies that they killed the wrong guy with full intent and premeditated. I highly doubt that they meant to kill an innocent civilian just for the fun of it. The officers involved are probably basket cases right now anyway.

I am as distrustful of state authority as the next guy, but crap happens, especially when LEOs are forced to spend their time fighting an unwinnable War Against Some Drugs. Some LEOs are rotten, but the vast majority are dedicated and trustworthy.



------------------
"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice." -- Albert Einstein
---
Glock/Benelli/Enfield -- the all-purpose threat management system.
 
Okay, so murder is a bad term. How about neglegent manslaughter and EVERY SINGLE COP on the raid spend the next twenty years thinking it over while doing time outside of Nashville somewhere? I would gander that these "accidents" wouldn't happen quite so frequently if just ONE of these negligent acts was ever punished beyond paid suspension. If you get the wrong house, and you kill the wrong guy, and it was due to your lack of checking into things, that is manslaughter. Of course each time, the cop gets off. This makes me irate. What's the difference if a cop screws up and kills someone, or I screw up and kill someone? About twenty years behind bars.
 
KJM is completely correct. There are different rules for US and THEM. As long as the law only applies to some people then (all together now):

THERE IS NO LAW IN AMERICA.
 
Personally I believe in the "Castle Principle" and as a law abiding citizen with absolutely no problems with law enforcement officials, I will not tolerate having my home attacked by the police, or the BGs for that matter.

In addition to having an early warning system, I am prepared in every aspect of the battle. I may die in that battle but I will take a bunch the invaders with me: Bet on it! But, my survivors will need a dry-wall contractor to plug-up a bunch of holds in the walls. Better get a steam cleaner for the carpets too!

IF YOU ARE UNWILLING TO DEFEND YOUR HOME AGAINST ATTACK, WHAT IS WORTH DEFENDING?

P.S. - Will someone get a link to the follow-up story on the Colorado shooting where the COP MURDERED another old man when they got the wrong house. Look for a link to the court proceeding against the cop. My understanding is that he was only convicted of a misdeamor charge ... so he'll be back on the job soon! As you said, different rules apply to cops.

[This message has been edited by AUTiger73 (edited October 06, 2000).]
 
I was under the impression you have to be served a search warrant before they can tresspass on you property.
An arrest warrant is only good if they are certain the person the warrant is for is present.
Obviously they were only certain they had firepower and would kill whatever got in their way because 'they' only go after criminals and anyone who gets in they way
is 'a terrible mistake'.
Unarmed gumen storming into my home WITHOUT indentifying themselves ....
the terrible mistake is that he didnt kill either of the bastards.
This could potentially cause the next few bold 'peace officers' to verify their info befor entering and remember to shout 'police'.
What was such a terrible crime being committed that they had to go into anyone's home guns blazing???
Two officers once came to my parents home with an arrest warrant 'they said' after I refused to answer any of their questions (I was more cooperative than the public servants were being,they never even said who they were or indentified themselves except for claiming to have an arrest warrant.)
They then attempted to force their way into
my parents house.
They were met by two german shepards who nearly tore into them ,they began to shoot the animals but my mother interrupted them and allowed them to speak to my father on the phone.
They refused to give him any info except for the officers name who originally handled the case who happened to be out of town.
The only answer they would give was for him to come to them or into the station for them to answer their question when that officer returned and they would arrest him and it would 'look' better for him to do that.
If my mother had not interrupted them a fragile lady, they would have shot my parents dogs and entered their home guns blazing without ever having indentified themselves in an unmarked car and a claim to an unserved search warrant they would NOT even let her look at.
That would have been illegal tresspassing.
Remember that we feel that way next time your on one of these assignments my dear above the law LEO's.
The fellow standing behind them was armed.
My father is the hardest worker Ive ever known, at one time he employed two CPA's to make sure he was obeying all the tax law and was up to date as he ran his own business.
It turns out the arrest warrant had been satisfied 6 months befor but because the information was never filed in the computer it was reissued.
My father had to avoid his home for 3 days
before the officer handling the case returned.
Those officers could have been legally shot,
the only way I had any idea that they were police was I saw a badge when one of them pulled their pistol as they entered the home.
They knocked once and barged in.
Their car was even unmarked and ofcourse they were in street clothes.
Yes these men were risking their lives to stop a terrible crime in progress and once again save no lives, the crime ,state misinformation on the part of the MPD.

"to serve and protect" my ass

If you have a brain and see that this type of stupidity goes on with a agency that arms tom,dick and harry you wont be a part of such a group.
If you see this and continue to contribute
you either have no value on life except your own rights stomping facist booty or your too ignorant to comprehend your actions and need a real if not permanent lesson.
To remind every daring LEO our lives are just as valuable as yours.
These officers arent blind theyve seen things just like this happen in the past yet they still go on such sketchy misinformed raids,no murder is not a bad term or even negligent homicide at the least.

Months from now at the earliest TBI will issue a statement saying this was a terrible mistake and that the officers involved were suspended with pay for a month or three.
The bible taught that if while fighting a person causes injury to a pregnant woman and causes her to lose her child then the perpatrater should pay with his life if the offended so chooses.
They never will have any such punishment for LEO's
nothing like it no matter how bad their little 'mistake' is because if they did
they wouldnt be able to get any officers to invade citizens homes.
To make consequences so server for them as they are for normal civillians would make them far too aware and alert.

Anyone ever heard the term survalence.
Ive heard some departments have the intelligence to use it before committing to a firearms assault.
This is where we are now want to see where were headed stay tuned.
www.ccops.org
concerned citizens opposed to police states

------------------
"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
 
Twenty years ago, a laundromat about one mile from my house was robbed. The criminal walked into the storefront and stated that he was there to pick up a garment. He gave my last name as the name to look for. When the attendant went into the back, he followed then held the employee at gun point while he robbed the place.

Just after dinner that same night, two sheriff's deputies came to our house. I remember that there was a polite knock on the front door. I was about twelve at the time, and being curious, went to look through the front window to see who it was. I was pleasantly excited to see two cop cars in front of our house, because I was a kid, and cops were cool.

This is what I remember happening: "Good evening, are you Mr. D"? "Yes I am, can I help you"? "Well sir, the laundromat up the road was robbed this evening and the robber used your last name… Do you have any son's"? "I have one son". "How old is he"? "Twelve… Hey Mark, come here for a minute". I came down the stairs and stood next to my dad. The deputies saw me and grinned, it was very obvious that I was not there "man". The first deputy gave my dad a big grin and said, "Well, he's way too young to have been our robber. You don't have any other sons"? "Nope, just him" answered my father. "O.K. then, sorry for the inconvenience, but we had to check. Have a good night". The deputies both offered a bit of a wave and then they left.

I share this story because it strikes me as the way police should conduct themselves. I believe that too many paranoid badged stormtroopers of USA 2000, have become criminal in the application of their duties. Why did the Lebanon PD feel they needed to make a "High speed-Low drag" arrest? Why couldn't they have simply walked up to the door, with additional officers in reserve if they felt it was needed, and said, "Good evening, I'm officer A and this is officer B. Are you Mr. SuchandSo"??? If the answer is "yes", then fine arrest the guy. If the answer is "No, that's my next door neighbor"… Go figure, a tragedy has been averted. What happens if the real bad guy says "No" to the question, you ask? I respond with the following: If you have had this house staked out and you've made drug buys from the guy, I HOPE YOU KNOW WHO HE IS AND WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE!!! What happens if he becomes violent? Well, dang, then you get to do some of that "High speed" crap you see on COPS.

It's time for law enforcement to start playing by the law. Law officers are held to a higher standard, it's part of the job, deal with it and start administering consequence! If a cop is a criminal, PUNISH him. If a cop is incompetent and takes a life, PUNISH him!

My two cents...
 
This has been fought over many times on TFL and every time it comes up it seems like LEO's believe it is a price we must pay for their protection.Anyboby that has read my posts know how I stand on the subject so will not post that.As soon as a number of LEO's pay for their arrogance maybe all the rest will be more careful.I would as soon see a dozen small time dealers get away, then one innocent person like this killed.One thing about this one is that with the NAACP involved something might get done.They have more power then the average white citizen
See what happens I guess

------------------
Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
Mark D, Im all with you on that one isnt it also interesting how deputies vs. city officers seem to treat you more like citizens or countrymen rather than murdersou convicted felons.
Autiger73---youd make a great neighbor.Jamaica police look to US for guns after British rejection

Jamaica is looking to United States suppliers to provide pistols for its police force after Britain blocked a shipment over human rights concerns.

"We have not yet identified a supplier but we are searching the market in order to fill the void left by the British arms dealer," Shirley Byfield, a spokeswoman for the National Security Ministry, said.

She said they were looking at US dealers.

In August, British officials refused to allow the sale of 500 guns from Dince Hill Holdings to the Jamaican police because of concerns about the number of police killings in the former British Caribbean colony.

Last year, police killed 151 people in Jamaica, a country of 2.6 million. Residents in poor neighbourhoods often allege the shootings are unprovoked.

The British decision has angered Jamaican officials, who claim London is meddling in their internal affairs. They have demanded Dince Hill return 180,000 dollars (£124,000) paid for the guns.

Police commissioner Francis Forbes said last week that the pistols will be used to arm police officers who currently carry M-16 rifles on patrol.

Ten police officers have been killed in 2000. Forbes said it would be unsafe to send out police officers unarmed.
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_77134.html?nav_src=newsIndexHeadline

Alllll in the line of duty.
Hay maybe we should have our officers issued
M-16's that way if we dont all lay down low like good little slaves when the officers come knocking gestapo style they can simply wipe out the whole family, sniff sniff kinda makes you miss Japan.
But thats okay you could probaly get the Governer himself to say it was a terrible mistake and that an investigation ( that will go no where and be charged to the people including the relatives of the deceased fool who got in the way) will be conducted and something ( suspension with pay, or ship him to a new department)will be done (eventually).
Officers see all the time that when they do actually bring in criminals that they face no real punishment or consequences so why do many of them remain officers...
for some because they love the power they have over the sheeple who have to obey laws even gunlaws.



------------------
"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
 
By Howard Pankratz
Denver Post Legal Affairs Writer

Oct. 6, 2000 - The Denver officer whose erroneous search warrant precipitated a deadly drug raid at the wrong house entered a rare type of guilty plea Thursday to first-degree official misconduct, a misdemeanor.

Officer Joseph Paul Bini, 31, entered an "Alford plea," a type of guilty plea approved by the U.S. Supreme Court in the 1970 case of North Carolina vs. Alford.

In entering the plea, Bini contends there is no factual basis for the charge against him and the only reason he is entering it is that
there is enough evidence that he could be convicted at trial.

"He didn't admit a factual basis to the charge. There was no admission of factual guilt," said legal commentator and former
Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman.

Using information provided by Bini, a Denver police SWAT team on Sept. 29, 1999, raided the wrong house. There, officers shot and
killed Ismael Mena, 45, who had been working in Denver to support his wife and seven of their nine children, who were living in Mexico.

Mena's death was ruled a justified police shooting because Mena pointed and fired a .22-caliber handgun at police. The city of Denver, however, paid Mena's family $400,000 to settle the issue.

After the plea Thursday, Mena supporters said Bini got off easy. "If we are lucky, he'll get a ticket for jaywalking," said Mary Miera, a member of the Justice for Mena Committee. "There was no justice today in that courtroom. Mr. Joe Bini should meet Mr.
Mena's children and look them in the face and explain what happened to their father. At the very least, he should be made to support those nine kids."

Special prosecutors Charles Tingle and Mark Randall said the outcome was "fair and equitable," considering new evidence, which they would not disclose, and limitations on the case they were allowed to present.

On Thursday, Tingle and Randall dismissed felony charges against Bini, including two counts of first degree perjury and one count of trying to influence a public servant.

By pleading to the misdemeanor, Bini has a chance to remain on the Denver Police Department. He would have had to leave the
force if he had been found guilty of - or pleaded guilty to - a felony.

Tingle said he wouldn't seek jail time when Bini is sentenced Dec. 1. But Denver District Judge Shelley Gilman advised Bini that she wasn't bound by that agreement and could impose a maximum sentence of one year in jail and a $1,000 fine.

Bini has been suspended from his job without pay. He and his lawyer, David Bruno, said Bini would seek immediate reinstatement.

Asked after the hearing if he hoped to return to duty, Bini replied: "Absolutely, I love my job."

Bruno said the misdemeanor charge and the Alford plea should be an indication to the public that Bini committed no crime. Bini didn't do anything that constituted perjury, deception or making false statements, the defense attorney said.

"There was never any perjury," Bruno said. "There were mistakes. . . Bini himself has admitted there were mistakes, but a mistake is a far cry from perjury."

Prosecutor Tingle said the deal was struck because of new information obtained by investigators - which he declined to outline
- and rulings by Gilman that sharply curtailed the evidence prosecutors could present at trial.

From the time the case was sent to the Jefferson County district attorney's office for independent investigation, Tingle said, "it was investigated around the clock. The investigation has continued every day."

"Many more things came up which changed the landscape and the evidence. We believe this is a fair and equitable disposition and holds the defendant accountable," said Tingle.

After the hearing, LeRoy Lemos, a spokesman for the Justice for Mena Committee, walked to Mayor Wellington Webb's office and delivered a letter for Ari Zavaras, manager of safety. It asks that Bini be fired, noting that "his irresponsible, reprehensible and inexcusable actions have resulted in the loss of one Denver resident to date. Please do not allow him the opportunity to start a chain of events that results in another lost life or lives."

Police Chief Gerald Whitman said the department wants to "get moving on this as soon as possible."

"However, Bini has not been sentenced," Whitman said. "So we need to review the evidence as presented to the district attorney and conduct an initial interview with Bini. An internal investigation needs to take place, so his status remains the same."

According to evidence presented at various hearings, Bini was supervising a training exercise in which a drug informant made five drug buys during a two-day period in September 1999.

Subsequently, on Sept. 23, Bini presented a search-warrant affidavit to Denver County Judge Raymond Satter, seeking Satter's
permission for a no-knock raid at 3738 High St.

Prosecutors alleged the search warrant was rife with lies, including Bini's representation that 3738 High St., where Mena lived, was a crack house, that he saw the informant go to the house and that a drug buy happened there.

Bini admitted making mistakes but said other officers and his informant contributed to them. At no time did Bini intend to deceive Satter or know that the statements in the search warrant were wrong, Bruno said.

But the prosecution contended that Bini was solely responsible.

"The idea for the operation was Bini's, the informant was officer Bini's and officer Bini was using this operation to train other officers," they said in court documents.

Copyright 2000 The Denver Post. All rights reserved.
 
I suppose this will continue to happen as long as taxpayers consider $400,000 adequate compensation for the death of innocent men, women, and children. And $1,000 is adequate punishment for police incompetency.
 
Found the link on the Colorado COP case that will confirm that they COPS play by a different set of rules and laws.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/1006bini3.shtml

"Cop Pleads Guilty In Raid"

Deal may allow Bini to keep his badge in failed drug bust that led to shooting death.

By Sue Lindsay
Denver Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer

Suspended Denver police office Joseph Bini beamed after pleading guilty Thursday to a misdemeanor charge that may allow him to keep his badge.

Bini, 31, was head for trial next week on three felony charges when prosecutors cut the deal, largely because of a judge's ruling that barred them from presenting most of their evidence to a jury.

Bini was the only officer charged in connection with a BOTCHED NO-KNOCK RAID that claimed the life of Ismael Mena on Sept. 29, 1999, WHEN OFFICERS STRUCK THE WRONG HOUSE.

Mena, a Mexican citizen and father of nine, was SHOT 8 TIMES after he pointed a gun at SWAT officers who had stormed his bedroom.

"Legal murder, that what it is," said committee member Mary Miera. "Joe Bini should have to look Ismael Mena's nine children in the face and explain to them what happened to their father."

The committee has asked Mayor Wellington Webb and safety manager Ari Zavaras to fire Bini. ....

Denver paid Mena's survivors $ 400,000 to settle a lawsuit.

Bini pleaded guilty to official misconduct, but STILL MAINTAINS HE BROKE NO LAW.

..... blah ... blah ...

He was charged with making false statements on an affidavit and deceiving a judge to obtain a no-knock search warrant.

"We're just happy that it's over, and now I can get on with my life." Bini said as he left the courtroom, adding that he hopes to return to work as a police officer." Absolutely, I love my job. Love my job."

Two felony perjury charges and one felony charge of deceiving the judge who approved the warrant were dropped as part of the plea bargain.

The official misconduct charge carries a maximum penalty of one year in jail and a
$1,000 fine, but HIS PLEA AGREEMENT DOES NOT REQUIRE JAIL TIME.
........

there is more, go read it yourself. I've gotta barf.

_________

Another link to the Tennessee story:
http://www.newschannel5.com/news/0010/05/raid2.html

Reading this article on the Tennessee case, it appears the NAACP is going after the Lebanon Police Dept. Even though I disagree that it is a racial matter, I hope the NAACP is successful in making the police miserable.
_______

Well, there you have it. One case in Tennessee that just happened, and the results of a similar case in Colorado. The Colorado case tells you the penalty for "Murder by Cops". As an earlier post said it's not murder. Apparently he was right because:
IT AIN'T MURDER IF THE COPS DID IT.
 
hmmm... lets make a change to some of the facts:

Let's say that the Bad N0-Knock goes down, but the homeowner is able to take out the cops, and somehow survives.

Said homeowner has a couple of speeding tickets under his belt, lets say one every other year for a couple years. But no other encounters with LE, ever.

Oh, one more thing, this all goes down two streets down from you. In your back yard so to speak.

Would you say that said homeowner is a murderer?

How do you think he'd be treated by the DA's office of your town?

How do you think he'd be treated by the rest of the PEACE OFFICERS in your area?

How would you view the PEACE OFFICERS in your area?

HMMMM????

These are the important questions here...

It reminds me of the thread about he Uniform Peace Officers robbing your house. Maybe i should change my answer in that one?

This sucks.



------------------
~USP

"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
 
USP45: For a partial answer to your question look at the district attorney and judges action in Bini's plea bargain on a similar case in Colorado. Considering the "free ride" that the cop received you can believe that the innocent citizen would have been crucified if he had killed a cop and survived.

Everybody, GO LOOK AT MY PREVIOUS POST FOR THE LINK TO BINI'S PLEA BARGAIN IN THE COLORADO CASE. It speaks volume about the outcome you can expect in the Lebanon, Tennessee case. Carefully note that the District Attorney, Judge, and Police Department are all observing that "BLUE LINE OF JUSTICE."

USP45, I'll let others pontificate your questions as I've got to go; the little wifey is calling, again! (She is worse than the COPS and a lot better shot.)

*****
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
 
I had a message here, but decided to withdraw it.


[This message has been edited by Donny (edited October 07, 2000).]
 
one thing that would help a great deal is if neighborhood watches would arm themselves. If you know other pro-RKBA people, try to all live near each other, and set up plans similar to the minuteman system. It is very effective. We've got it in our neighborhood, but unfortunately we've had a lot of soccer-mom types moving in lately. I'm getting to the point where I'm probably going to move somewhere better. I have been thinking about Wyoming. Is that a good choice?

------------------
The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
A question for all the LEOs here. It would be an understatement to say this kind of thing puts law enforcement and the judicial system in a bad light. What sorts of steps are being taken to prevent these problems? I’m referring to wrong addresses, officers who accidentally shoot detained kids, false warrants, etc. I’m sure the majority of the officers who are doing an honest job would be embarrassed by that kind of conduct. To say “that was unfortunate but officer safety is important” after a citizen is dead makes the police appear to have an I’m above the law approach and that is ultimately destructive of the integrity officers need to have. I am sure it isn’t easy trying to change the system from the inside but it seems necessary. One more question as long as I’m typing. Why don’t all officers on these dynamic entries wear real police uniforms? I’m always amazed when on TV a cop with the word police printed in big letters on the BACK of his T shirt comes barging into a house and is surprised when people don’t know it’s the police. I’m not trying to bash LEOs, just asking some questions I’ve been wondering about. Thanks in advance for any answers.
 
Normally I try and stay out of this, because no matter what you say, or how hard you try and convince people of reality, I'm going to get bashed and called a uniformed murderer anyway. But wonder of wonders, Griz actually asks an honest question instead of a tainted accusation. Thank you very much. Here goes. For clarification, I'm a city cop. I've worked for sheriff departments in the dim past, but have been city for the past 16 years. We as a general rule do not do no-knocks. There are exceptions though. We've done a total of 5 in the past two years.(Not counting emergency hostage situations.) The plan must be approved at the asst. chief level, as well as the district judge. (9 layers of oversight) The DA has no say in the process. Subject must be visually id'ed by every member of the team beforehand. Practice runs on a similar location are conducted, and 24 hour survellience is in place for a minimum of 5 days prior. This survellience must place subject in the location before the team goes in. Subject must be as alone as possible. Uniforms say "Police" in 5" high reflective letters both front and back, as well as on the helmets. We do announce upon entry. Vehicles are marked cars. Regular uniform officers secure the perimeter. Entry to completion time is usually in the area of 15 seconds. We only do no-knocks for cases within our own department. We do not assist any other agency (feds) in theirs. We do not enforce federal statute. No knocks are only considered in a couple of scenarios. The aforementioned hostage situations, dangerous suspects, and high likelihood of evidence destruction. Let me state again, I don't work for the feds. No city cop does. The favorite armchair commando fantasy of defending against hordes of local constabulary coming for your AK just has no basis in reality. We don't have the time, don't want to spend the overtime funds, and in general just don't care if your rifle has a bayonet lug or not. lastly, don't gripe to me about the misdeeds of some yahoo cop halfway across the country. I don't like his misconduct, but actually have less pull than you do. After all, It's YOUR police department, not mine. Heck. It's no different than bashing all plumbers when your's kills by negliegently hooking up the gas line and suffocating a family of five. He's your village idiot, you deal with him and leave the rest of us out of it. Griz, thanks for a civil question, there are so few of them floating around on this subject. Email if you have anything else you want to ask.
 
These 'mistakes' due to our War on Some Drugs are intolerable. No-knock warrant use is outrageous, IMHO. We read about this kind of crap about every 30 to 45 days.

There are two things that will reverse this tide ... one is lawsuits, and the other is dead and injured LEO's. Damn shame.

I respect and appreciate the LEO's that serve our communities. However, those that participate in these no-knock raids (and, often enjoy the 'excitement' of this kind of activity) are enemies of decent citizens everywhere, IMHO.

Flame away. I'll also state that I believe that honest LEO's that support these tactics are helping to destroy the bond between LEO's and the citizens they serve and protect.

It is high time for honest LEO's to condemn these tactics, just as wise, decent officers are fighting for more mature policies for pursuit.

LEO's, you do us little good if we have to wonder if we'll be killed because of these 'mistakes' ... all in the name of making that exciting drug bust you're salivating over.

Regards from AZ
 
I remember my brother (a local deputy) getting suspended with pay for 5 days because on an "officer in distress" call, he was in such a hurry to come to the aid of the other deputy, he hit a street sign, and failed to wait for a state trooper to make a report (leaving the scene of an accident). Sounds crazy, but he used the time to go fishing. It wasn't really punishment, but even the minor things got punished in that department. When I was there you'd be amazed at what got punished. Still, my experience was both enlightening, and disenchanting. Many cops were good at being cops. They were they guys you want at your house when something is bad, and they were the ones who would not hesitate to risk their lives to help a citizen. BUT- there were the others too. The ones who had that "brother officer" mentality. To them it was an us vs them thing, and all regular citizens were the them. They made me sick. They are the ones that need to be cut from every department, and EVERY department has at least one or two of them. All you LEO's know what I'm talking about too whether you admit it or not. Policing attracts two kinds of people: Those who love to help people out, and truly enjoy the variety, and the feeling of doing something good for society, and then there are the ones who love power. They like the badge and the gun thing, and they're the ones who stir up a S--t storm and needlessly provoke incidents.
Just as a daycare center attracts two kinds of people: those who love to be with kids, and really like helping kids to learn and grow, and those who secretly desire to hurt kids. If you wanted to hurt children and were a predator of the first rate, where would you find the most victims? Fortunately, these are few indeed.
Cops need to chastise those who flaunt authority. Our (society) cause isn't served by gung-ho gun-happy criminals with a badge. Their existence is the reason citizens are more and more reluctant to get involved. They seem to write a disporportionate amount of tickets, and make a rather large amount of arrests. If you don't remove the bad apples, some day, you will be calling the bad apples boss.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top