Murder by Cops, again - Part 2

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This will never be resolved.The opinion that this is a normal accident and should be just over looked as "**** happens" seems to be the thinking of a large percentage of the LEO's posting on this thread.
The rest of us think that the killing of innecent people is wrong and should merit some punisment.
I think I have just put this total thread in two small paragraphs.Anything else said does not pretain to this thread.SO it boils down to are we all responsible for our actions good or bad?Or are some of us not, due to the jobs we have?
Any comments on this one?

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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gunslinger:

The point remains...we are all here for the same reason....our shared love for firearms and our inalienable right to own them.
[/quote]

Though I agree that we all have a strong love of firearms and the shooting sports, I feel that a very small percentage, of the otherwise Patriotic LEOs on these boards, do not share our belief in a Citizens Inalienable right to own them. This comes through loud and clear in the tone and attitude of some postings.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>

Certainly the system is flawed. Of that I think we all, LEO's and so called "civilians" can agree.
[/quote]

I respectfully inform you, that I am a "Citizen" not a "civilian", and you are not "military", nor "para-military", no matter what your form of training, or weapons used in the performance of your duties. We are both Citizens of these United States, with the same rights guaranteed under our Constitution. You have simply been entrusted with the awesome responsibility of "protecting and serving" your fellow Citizens. Contrary to popular belief, your job does not make your life of any more value, nor your work stress of any more importance, than the Citizens you are to serve.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>

Now, I personally believe that Gore is a liar (who doesn't, including Tipper), that the .45 ACP is a far superior cartridge to the 9X19 and that Glocks should only be placed in the dishwasher on the top shelf with the machine set to the China/crystal setting for cleaning. :p
[/quote]

At least on this we can agree ;)
 
And what would you say to the parents Pal ? That you ran over the kid on purpose ? Boy your post makes a lot of sense to , what a guy.

But of course Im an LEO. I would shoot a kid accidently , give his parents a call ,and tell them little Johnny wont be coming home tonight due to my human error blowing his head off. I'd then wisk off in my squad car looking for the next innocent citizen for target practice.

Its very common in these forumns now to post these fanatsy's of blowing away cops as they pound thru your door looking to grab your guns , or shooting cops for one reason or another. I'd like to think its the same ignoramus, like your ignorant lil pal Tiger, doing all the post's but Im afraid its not just one person.

For the record I have nothing but contempt for anyone who so blithley talks about shooting , or hurting, another human being. I have know many like them, a few cops also, and I consider them pathetic , just pathetic. They are no threat , no danger. I see one of them changed his tune after I challenged his ignorance, go back and read your pals initial post if you still can.

These "Gun" forumn's are surprisingly tolerant of these types. Your telling me LEO's are moderators here ? I dont believe it. Now we got a guy talking indirectly about the calibers that should defeat the soft armor worn by LEO's , way to go Moderators.

Gun owners and sportsmen are really going out of their way to alienate the Police. Many of us are gunowners and sportsmen too, Ive personaly always supported CCW.

Im really really starting to wonder now. Im really starting to question the maturity of many who want to carry, tho carrying for self defense only is a million times simpler then carry a weapon in order to enforce the law and make arrest's of violent felons , you seem to easily forget this fact when you quote your stats.


Hey moderators, can you answer that ? Why do you allow all these lil "shoot the pig" fantasy's to be posted ? Just wondering..........WG6
 
I have yet to come across any officer on this or any other thread on this incident that thinks it should be filed under "**** happens". What I do find are officers and others calling for reason and logic while folks outside of the profession (not all) make comments about shooting officers, cop killer bullets, and in general meddle around in an issue they do not have complete information on. Have a problem with an individual officer or department? Go to the source. Leave the rest of us out of it. Despite some folks beliefs, we don't go randomly searching every home in sight, axe murder little old ladies, or check for bayonet lugs while off duty at the range.
 
I find it ironic that cops get indignant, claiming they're victims of people "wanting to throw cops in jail without a trial", but at the same time, will roll their eyes and say, "yeah, right", when an accused says he's innocent. Spare me the denial - it happened to me, and the coward has yet to acknowledge the truth.

Can you say, "good for the gander"?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wheelgunner6:
For the record I have nothing but contempt for anyone who so blithley talks about shooting , or hurting, another human being.[/quote]

If that's true, what do you call this?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also posted be Wheelgunner6: But of course Im an LEO. I would shoot a kid accidently , give his parents a call ,and tell them little Johnny wont be coming home tonight due to my human error blowing his head off. I'd then wisk off in my squad car looking for the next innocent citizen for target practice.[/quote]


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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

See The Legacy of Gun Control film at: www.cphv.com

Do it for the children...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by enfieldj:
I have yet to come across any officer on this or any other thread on this incident that thinks it should be filed under "**** happens".[/quote]

It sounds like Wheelgunner6 would be your first. If I am reading his posts correctly.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What I do find are officers and others calling for reason and logic while folks outside of the profession (not all) make comments about shooting officers, cop killer bullets, and in general meddle around in an issue they do not have complete information on. Have a problem with an individual officer or department? Go to the source. Leave the rest of us out of it. Despite some folks beliefs, we don't go randomly searching every home in sight, axe murder little old ladies, or check for bayonet lugs while off duty at the range.[/quote]

Unfortunately, the police are the frontline "complaint department". Much like a bad product that gets returned, the poor clerk who had nothing to do with it's manufacture get's the brunt of the complaint.

And the politicians seem to be unreachable.

But the reality, as I see it, is that the majority of the people don't want to be responsible for a situation that they have created for themselves through their ignorance and/or greed for a government sponsored handout. The "war" on drugs, the "war" on guns, the "war" on property rights, the "war" to "conserve" the environment, and the taxation system that is required to fund these money hungry socialistic programs.

So who's to blame. We, the American people, are. Because we voted for the "easy" way, not the responsible way, not the way of true freedom.

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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

See The Legacy of Gun Control film at: www.cphv.com

Do it for the children...
 
Sigh. It really doesn't take much for these threads to go totally outtacontrol.


Wheelgunner, I'm not sure where you're finding these "shoot the pig" fantasies. I've yet to see one in over a year of reading this board. Methinks you should ease down on the rhetoric a little.

Back to the problem at hand - innocent people getting killed or wounded, by LEOs, for whatever reason (and how to prevent the same.) I'd like to get the LEO perspective here. Looking at the situation described above, knowing only what we know now, what action should be taken, and against whom? Should the shooter be charged with manslaughter (or something else?) Should the dep't policy on dynamic entries be re-examined?

It's pretty obvious that something has to be done to prevent this kind of thing from going down. My question is, what?

Later,
Chris



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"TV what do I see, tell me who to believe, what's the use of autonomy when a button does it all??" - Incubus, Idiot Box
 
Cops can dish it out but they sure can't take it! As for all these pro-rkba cops - where are they in real life!!??? All I see are cops supporting gun buy back programs, cops supporting registration, ect. I know of at least 3 cities that police corruption was admitted. How many of the people in jail because of throw downs and set ups are free now?
Since when is responding to an incident "intentionally flaming". Is this a new type of political correctness?
 
Moderator(s).

Can we please move on, and close this thread now.

It appears that there exist an open space between LEO, and the general populace(don't know a better term for now) on this matter.

For the betterment of ourselves as a group, and to maintain some form of unity, as a group, let's move on.

I'm more than a bit disturbed by what has been happening with some of the accidents. But I get even more so aggrivated, when some kid finds a gun some dumba$$ doesn't put away properly, and gets killed as a result. And our opponents use this against us... That's something I believe we'll all agree on.. :)

As mentioned in one of the posts, the media loves to use examples like this to pit LEO against the citizens, and I believe that's on the money.
Why let them do that to us here?
We should know better...

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited October 08, 2000).]
 
POsted by enfielj
I have yet to come across any officer on this or any other thread on this incident that thinks it should be filed
under "**** happens". What I do find are officers and others calling for reason and logic while folks outside of the
profession (not all) make comments about shooting officers, cop killer bullets, and in general meddle around in an
issue they do not have complete information on. Have a problem with an individual officer or department? Go to the
source. Leave the rest of us out of it. Despite some folks beliefs, we don't go randomly searching every home in
sight, axe murder little old ladies, or check for bayonet lugs while off duty at the range.

What do you call this?????????????????

The real truth is that this kind of thing can happen very easily. Ive seen it happen to better cops then me , its a
combination of bad luck and circumstances. "Boom" you shoot an innocent by mistake, it can happen that fast. Its
like an accidental discharge , eventually you get enough experience to realize it can happen to anyone , even
yourself. Its Human error , not a crime, but human error.

------------------
Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.

[This message has been edited by beemerb (edited October 08, 2000).]
 
It seems that "Peace Officer", "Police" and "Law Enforcement" are no longer anywhere near interchangable terms......Sad.

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
For the record, many (perhaps most) of the TFL Staff are current or former
LEOs. Several others have some background in some facet of Law
Enforcement. Include military service and living in a foreign police state and
you cover virtually every member of the Staff.

I’ve never been a commissioned peace officer, but I teach in a police
academy and I worked with Deputy Sheriffs and state troopers extensively
while I was in EMS. In my experience, most LEOs support the RKBA for all
Americans - excepting perhaps felons. Some urban LEAs may be cursed with
vehemently PC leaders who subordinate Rights to their personal career
desires; but this does not change the private view of the cops on the street.
To state or even imply otherwise merely shows lack of experience with LEOs.

Some LEOs are stinkers - as are some doctors, school teachers, ditch diggers,
(perhaps especially) Presidents, etc. However, it is sad to the point of
disgust to watch American gun owners fragment themselves into small,
ineffective groups - quarreling like school children - while united gun control
elitists place the yoke of tyranny on our children and grandchildren.

SWAT, like firearms themselves, can be used or abused. Trusting the
left-wing media to give complete and accurate information shows a
maliciously selective acceptance of our “press”! If you accept what you read
about SWAT killings then you must accept what was written about Waco -
“The Davidians started it, killed each other and some LEOs, then set
themselves on fire.”

Too ridiculous to contemplate....

BTW, if someone wants a member of the Staff to intervene, it is usually best
to e-mail several Staff members. They are identified by the terms
“Moderator” or “Administrator”. However, none are available on a 24/7 basis
- putting family needs higher than refereeing childish backbiting by
anonymous pot-stirrers.

This thread’s closed.
 
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