Multiple attackers.

B

BerettaCougar

New member
Everyone loves a scenario thread right?
:rolleyes:

Well, here goes...

Let's say you're driving, car craps out, you're in anycity USA.
And you're out of your car, looking at a flat tire, or smoking engine, and a few guy's approach you, asking if you need help, you reply no...

they don't leave, a few seconds of silence, then a weapon is presented by one person of the small group. let's say theres 3 men.
A request for your money is made, you draw your weapon.
And your private training and gut feeling tells you to drop the weapon holder, so you do that. he falls, do you hold the other men at gun point and wait for a threat, while calling the PD with the other hand/wait for the tow-truck you called earlier??? Or do you let them escape, or demand that they run away???

IF they run away, they may just come up behind you, or go get more weapons or more men to mount a more effective attack....

Should you hold them there at gun point, until the cops get there???

I dunno, I'm bored and I never started a scenario thread, so let's go guys...ALL of you...come on!!

My input would be to hold them there, with verbal commands and body language (the gun in their face)...I wouldnt try to physically hold them, and I would add some room between me and them, and watch my 6 a few times.. You?
 
When a weapon is presented you are in immediate and great danger !!! You shoot NOW ! It's not a game , your life is in danger after all there are many cases where the BG shoots before he asks for money .
 
Yeah but...

do you hold the other men at gun point and wait for a threat, while calling the PD with the other hand/wait for the tow-truck you called earlier??? Or do you let them escape, or demand that they run away???
Click to expand...
 
My practice of situational awareness would have caused me to be thinking weapon as soon as I saw the approaching men. In that situation, to allow them to get that close, without a challenge is very risky.
 
You could fire on the other BGs, disparity of force is still present due to you being outnumbered and them within reach of your weapon. Action is much faster than reaction. If they both lunged for your gun you would never get them both. Try this with buddies and an UNLOADED gun if you dont believe me.
 
They have ALL just threatened you and challenged you with deadly force. It wasn't just the man that pulled the weapon. All three were in it together. I would hold them at gunpoint, demand they get on the ground and make like they are making a snow angel. If you tell them to run away, one of them may very well have another weapon (knife, gun or otherwise) on them and pull it or they may indeed go get more men and weapons (that kinda sounds hollywood, but if they are some neighborhood gang, you never know...and that is really the point "you don't know" which is why you should take the side of caution and give yourself any advantage you can). When you have dropped the man with the weapon and have the gun on the other attackers you have the advantage. Keep it! Keep them under control if they make any false move I would shoot them. If they run away, don't pursuit them. Also, keep an eye on the man on the ground who is shot. He may not be dead. They say there is nothing more dangerous than a wounded animal.
 
As soon as the BG uncovers a weapon, the thing to do is MOVE! At that point who cares about drawing a gun? You are to darned close, and you have got to get some cover. Get the car between you and him while drawing your gun. Most importantly though, make yourself a hard target through movement to buy yourself that second of time you need. You are already behind the curve, and you will not beat his draw. If you cannot get to cover and are close enough, block his draw with your weak hand while making your own draw with your strong hand. The thing to do at this point in time is avoid getting shot.

Next, assuming you get a bead on BG with a weapon, drop him. Head shot if possible. You are close enough to do it, if you allow him to advance so you will not have lateral movement, or if you are in a hand to hand struggle with him. Conservation of ammo is imperative, at least for me and my j frame or my 1911, so that's why a head shot. If you pack a Glock and 2 extra mags, you might want to consider other options.

The others live or die depending on their actions. Chances are, assuming it's a robbery, when the armed leader gets a splitting headache, they will bug out. Let them go, they can later be identified through connections with the recently deceased.

If they want to press the attack, well that's why you conserved ammo. If they press the attack, you are looking at an organized and premeditated attempt plan to personally do you harm. You are not a random victim, and if you survive the attack, you should seriously consider police protection until you find out what is going on. Random criminals don't press the attack when a victim fights back with lethal force. They run away and find a more willing victim.

Finally, notify 911, allow yourself to be taken into custody, and lawyer up.
 
The entire "gang" is responsible at the point the BG pulls a weapon on you. Every member of that gang can now be considered a threat that can be answered with deadly force. "Gang" mentality fits into Disparity of Force as was mentioned earlier. Each member of the gang can be considered a threat until there is only one member left. AT the point of having one person from that "gang" in front of you, that single person is no longer considered a threat per se under Disparity of Force. The last person now has to be considered on his own actions as to whether or not he is a threat since the "gang" no longer exists.
 
3 guys approach you, one guy pulls a weapon, two guys unarmed, you shoot the armed guy and the two unarmed guys TURN and RUN AWAY (REAL IMPORTANT). Legally you DO NOT shoot a fleeing person. Remember Bernie Getz. If you shoot a guy running away from you in the back you will at the least see court time....at the worst you will do serious jail time. I grew up in some tough urban areas and most of these thugs are like animal Predators. The will see that your in a weaken state (car broken down and definately not fitting in with your surroundings) and they will approach to probe you. What they are looking for is to see if your afraid. Don't act like a tough guy, but act confident. In situations like this and I would have my cell phone in my hand, give them the impression that you have someone one the other line. They will try to circle you so put you back against the car or a wall. Poor people have there good and bad people, they may truly be trying to help you, but if they start looking at each other and looking at you something is up. Here is the scary thing, it is not like the movies. They will either "flash" a weapon (show you that they are carrying) and suddenly invade your personal space or just physically rush you. If your rushed and your back is against something if you have been praticing you will most likely be ok. They will either back down and run (again no weapons and running away , let them go) or if they don't stop you will get at least one or two. What you don't want is a thug getting you from behind when you are trying to draw. You will wind up dead. If it is a weapon "flash" I would in your smoothest voice say...that ain't real..and as shows his weapon I would smoothly blow his brains out. If the others attack armed or unarmed you shoot them, legally you will be OK. If they run let them go. Keep your eye on them as they run because honestly if they run and turn around with a handgun odds are you will still be on top. Do you think a street thug has a good straight shooting weapon, do you think he pratices at a gun range...do you think a street thug is on the internet chat rooms talking about guns and tactics....no but you do right. In a street brawl you might lose but in a gun fight you will come out on top.
 
Take heed

Anytime a gun is pulled on me, I consider use of lethal nessicary<sp. Take down the one holding the gun. Then i would train my sights on the biggest guy there if they don't run. My dad was a cop and he always to me to look for one more weapon. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean that there is none
 
I don't think anyone has any argument that if possible you draw and shoot the gunner if in fact you have that opportunity.

What happens to the other two has to depend solely on what they do, . . . if they decide to hot foot it out, . . . goodbye and good riddance.

On the other hand, . . . they know you have a weapon, . . . and they are either really stupid, . . . or believe they can whip the old man, . . . and either would be the wrong decision. I'm afraid if they wanted to continue, . . . I'd drop all three and take my chances with the LEO's and the jury.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
"everyone gets a slice of the pie before anyone gets seconds" is how one instructor put it. This was one of our tactical options throught the day. I say, the gun holders gets first dibs. And again, it depends for the other guys on what they do next. If I don't see hands and/or retreating backsides at the very least, we'll see who gets the second piece.
 
After dropping the obviously armed perp I would yell/command the others to the ground. Just "thinking" one of them was a threat would get him shot. I'd like to think I wouldn't shoot one in the back, but ANY action I THINK threatens me or mine gets them shot or at the very least shot at.

Once you have control of the situation then yell for someone to call 911 - - scream for help. Only dial 911 yourself if you think you can do it without losing focus on the perp(s) you have detained. Don't let yourself be distracted.
 
The title of this thread 'Multiple Attackers' has me to comment to those who ask why someone needs hi-capacity mags and why so much ammo would be needed for regular self-defense. A competent gun owner should get his attacker in only a couple shots...right?
Wrong!! Who ever said that there is ever just only ONE attacker and that they aren't moving around shooting back at you where you have to take cover and shoot which isn't exactly the same as shooting at a paper target at the range.
 
They're all a threat to your life initially so you pop them all. After the initial shots, a couple of them are able to run away, you have to let them go, as bullets in the back are no good in court for you. Stay vigilant at that point.
 
I believe you would need to do away with all threats to your life - however you should expect your survival to come at the price of some prison time. It's a crappy situation to be in. Any witnesses are likely friends or atleast neighbors of the boys you shot. Their stories will likely be a long way from the truth. But all in all - if you value your survival, by all means put it first. Our current laws DO NOT use common sense, and they DO NOT understand the violence of a bad situation.

We can all sit here and say whatever we want. Even the lawyers. Anything you say on this forum doesn't mean diddly in court. What HAS worked in court - doesn't mean jack diddly in your case. Our legal system prides itself on being able to shock us with how ineffective it is. The performance of the prosecutor, defense and pre-dispositions of the jury decides your outcome.

That is why it is always important to ask yourself BEFORE YOU CARRY - if your survival is worth that. Some people might rather take their odds unarmed than risk being wrongly convicted. Our prisons are full of people who used their weapon for legitimate defense.
 
Legally you DO NOT shoot a fleeing person. Remember Bernie Getz. If you shoot a guy running away from you in the back you will at the least see court time....at the worst you will do serious jail time.
Click to expand...

True. But the problem with that is, then the two who ran are free to attack other defenseless people; apparently that's just fine and dandy with "The System."

If I were king, you'd smoke all three, running or not, and be presented with the key to the city.:D
 
Generally 3 punks assaulting you will do so with no wittnesses present. In which case your good word against none is a great place to be. If wittnesses are present that indeed would be a strange situation. I guess you would have to assess if these witnesses are friendlies or not. Non friendlies can whoop up a world of lies in court about how much in danger you really were. It could get messy. As I said though, the vast majority of these instances happen with no others present.
 
This is NOT a good scenario to be in. One question I had is exactly how close are these guys to you? I would think they'd be practically next to you. Because if they stopped to help you (or just wanted to look like they did), wouldn't they walk all the way over and stand next to you, looking at your flat tire, or under the hood, to see if they could help in the first place? Given that proximity, there's no way you could cap all three. And at that distance, I don't care how crappy the BG is w/ a gun. He'll hit you somewhere if he pulls the trigger. He already had the gun drawn ON you. The time it takes you to draw your's, he's already let off at least one shot (assuming he's serious and out for some killing). And if you did manage to shoot the guy w/ the gun, the other two are already bum-rushing you to take your gun, and/or beat you senseless, and shoot you back in retaliation for killing their gang brother.

I would think it's best to put distance between you and the BG's, even before the weapon is drawn on you. That is, assuming you can. Other than that, you're really screwed in such a close-quarters situation. I'm not being pessimistic, just realistic.

And, as much as we all want to believe that we could cap all three w/ no problems, we should remember that in a life/death situation like this, the adrenaline is pumping, nerves are shattered, thoughts are jumbled, and fear sometimes kicks in. It's totally different than going to the range w/ some buddies and shooting up paper with perfect groups under relaxed conditions. We're talking about the possibility of YOUR LIFE BEING ENDED. I won't kid myself and say I could drop them all. I'm sure my concentration and groupings wouldn't be perfect against an armed BG trying to kill me, with his two friends rushing up on me, too. I'd just hope and pray I hit COM on them, and had enough ammo.
 
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