mugged

H

Hallucinator

New member
I was mugged in Prospect Park, Brooklyn in 1981. I had just been to an ATM and withdrawn my rent money (landlady liked to be paid cash). I'd plainly been set up. It was about 2 in the morning and the guys came out from a hedge in somebody's front yard. One of them held a knife at my throat as the other one grabbed me. I was obviously not practicing situational awareness. It happened very fast. They pushed me down the driveway behind the house and robbed me. After that, they made me climb a fence into the alley to cover their get away. The fence had pickets at the top and I bruised the palms of my hands going over.

Today, I would not live in that neighborhood, would not carry that kind of cash, and would not be out at 2 AM. Given the situation, I did the right thing. I cooperated and didn't get my throat cut. I think these guys are probably dead or in jail now. It usually happens to them sooner or later.

Unfortunately, people living in New York can't carry pistols (unless they're rich or connected). If it had happened where I live now, it would have been within my rights to shoot them.
 
Everytime I'm in a big city, I have a tendency to feel unsafe. When I worked in D.C., I frequently heard about people getting mugged and robbed. Despite that, D.C., nor New York for that matter doesn't allow CCW....kinda sucks.
 
the guys came out from a hedge in somebody's front yard. One of them held a knife at my throat as the other one grabbed me.
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Notwishtanding the time and the cash, do you not think it possible that you could have just as easily been surprised had you been carrying? The outcome might have been the same even if you were vigilant. Sometimes BGs get the drop on you. I read a thread recently about a guy who was carrrying and had a perp come out of nowhere and point a 9mm at him. At that point, reaching for a weapon would be suicide, most likely.

I suppose I am realizing that just because you are situationally aware and carry a concealed weapon does not mean you are not going to get mugged.

Of course, I have watched a lot of action movies and would have just kicked off my shoes and Kung Fu'd the guy with the knife, spun around in slow motion, and Judo Chopped the one holding me ... for the win :p
 
Corik: I would probably not have allowed myself to be set up in the first place. I simply did not understand the neighborhood I was living in at the time. Very naive. My situational awareness has improved. Predators have a sense of who is not paying attention, who has had a little too much to drink, or who is lost in one's thoughts.

If I ever, for any reason, had to walk a street in a bad neighborhood again (say my car broke down) I would walk in the middle of the street and make a lot of noise if approached. If I were living where am I now and they showed me a knife, I'd shoot them and rightly claim self-defense.
 
That sucks. Good thing I live in a nice rural area. But what exactly can you do if a person has a knife to your neck. If you try to fight then you will just get cut.
 
didn't know there were any ATM's around in 1981.
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They were used widely in the United Kingdom in the early 1970s. They were invented far earlier, but the PIN concept didn't come in until the late 60s...

Anyway, yes, they were around :D

If I were living where am I now and they showed me a knife, I'd shoot them and rightly claim self-defense.
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So true.

I do wonder if statistically we are not more likely to be mugged by armed BGs? If so, it would be a lot more difficult to defend ourselves without his pulling the trigger.

Just thinking it through, not disagreeing with you.

I would hope if someone pulled a knife on me, I would have the presence of mind to draw before getting slashed to ribbons... but again, I doubt I could outdraw a trigger pull without resorting to Matrix style bullet-time ... which, to date, unlike a lot of the armchair commandos extant on the Internet, I have not been able to successfully accomplish :D
 
Hallucinator, you were not set up. You may have been ambushed, but you were not set up. To be set up means that someone established the situation for you, guiding you in some way. Instead, the guys were simply camped out by the ATM and waited for prey, any prey. That is of course unless you mean to imply that your landlord demanded you go to the particular ATM at 2:00 and get your rent money. If that was the case, then you might have been setup.

The story of the kid in Texas buying a car at night, meeting the seller at a public place and then being directed to an apartment parking lot where he was robbed was a set up.

As part of a setup or not, you were ambushed. People usually don't have any contol over "allowing" themselves to be ambushed. They may be able to keep the ambush from being successful, but without prior knowledge or some blunder on the part of the ambushers, the ambush is going to start before you are aware of it. Unless you are in the habit of checking all the hedges where ever you go, then the potential exists for such an event to happen again.

Why in the world would you be getting rent money at 2:00 AM in the morning. Even if you didn't practice situational awareness back then, common sense would hold that you don't go get a lot of cash at night.
 
If it all happened the same, except you had a gun, what would you have done differently?

1) You take the money out. 2) Guy come up from behind and puts a knife to your throat. 3) Second guy comes up and takes your money. When do you go for your gun? When do you shoot them?

If somebody has a knife within a foot of you, you can't try and draw your gun on them. They can stab you faster than you can draw, and you might shoot them before you die, but that doesn't solve anything. You might have been able to fight your way out of reach, but you run a big risk of getting cut, and then what? If I had disarm a guy with a knife, I would't want to let go of their knife hand/arm until they were disarmed or incapacitated, and then they don't need to be shot. Trying that when it's two-on-one is likely to get you killed anyway. I'd have to be real desperate to try and disarm a guy with a knife when he had help. I just can't see how I could drop the knife guy before the second guy dropped me, and I have trained in hand-to-hand fighting.

If you wait for the guys to turn around and leave, are you going to shoot them in the back? Are you going to order them to stop and stay where they are? If they keep walking, are you going to shoot them in the back then?

I know whay my monthly rent it, and it wouldn't cover the retainer on the lawyer I'd want to sit with me through questioning if I shot somebody. I'd rather let them get away with the cash.
 
"If somebody has a knife within a foot of you, you can't try and draw your gun on them. They can stab you faster than you can draw"

very true. when i took my ccw class, the instructor stated the "21 feet" rule, which says that if the BG has a knife within 21 feet of you, he can usually get to you before you can draw your gun and shoot, not sure how true that is in the real world though.
 
NYC can be interesting. This is a definite lesson in situational awareness and staying on-guard. Even in the natiest nieghborhoods (think Red Hook and East New York), I never encountered a major problem. If it was night, I'd go to a bodega and pay the extra $1.50 to use an ATM in a populated location. While using it, I would monitor my perimeter for anyone paying too much attention to me.

Surprisingly, I've had more ATM mischief here in Texas than I ever did up north. Nothing serious, just annoyances. The first incident was at the Irving Mall. I had withdrew some money and was just walking around. As I was walking past a Victorias Secret, a woman approached me from behind; middle-aged black woman, dressed appropriately, spidey-senses weren't tingling...yet. She excuses herself and explains that she left her checkcard at home and doesn't have a lot of cash and then asks if I can purchase some items for her from Victorias Secret! :eek: Now, I'm thinking, "Does she not see the big platinum and white gold wedding ring on my finger, it's kind of hard to miss." So I politely (and falsely) advised her I had no money. She then asks again, explaining how inexpensive it is and I again say I have no money. She gets huffy, and starts cussing me up and down how I'm advantaged and won't help a sister. That's when I realized, she was IN FRONT of me at the ATM. I can only assume when I used it, she saw me get cash, and assumed my first name is 'Sucker'. Pfft.

The second incident was a bit more tense, and mind you, this was in the middle of the day!! I had used at outdoor ATM, following my normal procedures...'fast cash', observe parking lot, stand at an angle so no one sneaks up on me. I get my cash and start to turn to the car when this scruffy dude comes from around the corner, "Hey man, I'm trying to...blah blah blah...can you help me out?". I tell him sorry, I can't. So now he starts walking towards me talking about how lucky I am and why can't I spare just some change. At this point, I feel threatened and I'm friggin offended. So I change my posture and start and hard walk towards him, flailing my arms and explain he has not right to question me or ask me what I work for and who the <bleep> does he think he is and who the <bleep> <bleep> does he take me for...? By time we were standing toe to toe, he apologized, changed his demeanor, and walked off. I watched him to he was at the end of the block and then went to my car and left.

I swear, ATMs have weirdo magnets.
 
"If somebody has a knife within a foot of you, you can't try and draw your gun on them. They can stab you faster than you can draw"

very true. when i took my ccw class, the instructor stated the "21 feet" rule, which says that if the BG has a knife within 21 feet of you, he can usually get to you before you can draw your gun and shoot, not sure how true that is in the real world though
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I find it hard to believe that someone can close from 7 yards from a standstill faster than I can draw on them.
 
rb4browns, read this.

Edited to add that I'm no authority on the subject, and only linked to the article to give you food for thought.
 
I find it hard to believe that someone can close from 7 yards from a standstill faster than I can draw on them.
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It is very true my I was actually my instructors volenteer for the demonstration. He Unloaded my weapon and made sure the class saw it was unloaded then i put it in my holster. He took off running from on side of the room and I drew down on him. His knife wasn't open but when we stopped I had the barrel of my gun on his heart and he had the but of his knife in mine. So we'd probably both be dead. But it is very possible for a person to close a gap like that running with a knife in their hand.;)
 
I find it hard to believe that someone can close from 7 yards from a standstill faster than I can draw on them.
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I have assisted in many classes where we time the students' ability to cover 21 feet in a hurry. We set it up and have each of the students who are wililng to do so run that distance; the run is timed by an instructor who hits "start" when they see the student begin to move and "stop" when the student slaps the instructor's outstretched hand. Most people are able to cover that ground in less than 2 seconds, sometimes significantly less. (I watched one guy on crutches do it in 2.1 seconds.)

I have also assisted in many classes where we run an electronic timer on students' draw and fires. Coming into the classes, most people are unable to draw from concealment and get at least one good hit in less than 3 seconds. Even with training, most are unable to draw from concealment and get at least one good hit in less than 1.75 seconds.

The 21-foot rule is no joke. A guy armed with only a contact weapon can indeed pose a lethal threat to you if he is within that radius, unless there are obstacles in the way.

pax
 
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