Mousegun stories

O

Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
Could you post personal/anecdotal info on self-defense cases where 22LR, 22WMR, 25ACP or obsolete calibers like .32 Long, 5mm velodog calibers were used for self-defense? I am curious to see how far such cases have progressed (i.e. deter without a shot, stop successfully, fail to stop, etc.)

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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Sammie Foust, in Robert Waters' book. 4 shots of .25 auto, but the goblin didn't die until he'd destroyed her mouth and one eye.
 
several incidents come to mind:
i worked at a major medical trauma center in the southeastern US as an Xray tech. we had to Xray gunshot victims dead and alive and i have collected a few stories.
(1) owner of a crack houde takes a .22 Jennings pistol in trade for some crack. the owner has two daughters. the two girls begin to fight over who is going to get the "biscuit" (street name for a small pocket gun). during the struggle the gun goes off. a solid lead round nose bullet from a .22 long rifle cartridge enters one girls body under her left arm. she weighs about 250 lb. the bullet penetrates across her left upper lung, clips one of the pulmonary arteries and continues into her right breast where we found it. she was DOA.
(2) man is kidnapped at a bar parking lot. he is forced to drive his car to an ATM by a man with a .38 revolver. at the ATM he is asked for his credit card and pin number. the man refuses and grabs the assalant by the wrist forcing the gun up. he reaches into his boot and pulls a .25 Raven that was in a clip-on holster inside his boot. he shoots the kidnapper at point blank range. the bullet enters just below the clavicle and passes downward thru the heart coming to rest against the assalant's spine. victim DOA.
(3) man enters E.D. on foot. states he has been shot multiple times in the back. after removing his clothing that included a T-shirt, sweater, flannel shirt and a lined leather jacket we observed four entry wounds on his back. no exit wounds were present. patient was not in any distress other than excited that he had been shot and worried he might die. Xray exam showed four .32 slugs in the heavy muscular tissue of the victims back. deepest penetration was one slug just against the victims rib cage. one slug was lodged against the shoulder blade, the other two were less than two inches deep in muscle. victim told me that he was using the phone and a car pulled up about 35 yards away. he heard six shoots and felt that he had been hit so he fell to the ground and the car pulled away. bullets removed in surgery
(4) man is robbing an elderly lady's home. she awakens and hears him in the house. she retireves a .22 Frontier Scout Colt pistol from her nightstand. as the robber enters her bedroom she fires a round. the bullet strikes him in the head but the wound is superficial as it glances off his skull due to extreme angle. he throws up his arm in a protective movement and the second round hits him in the forearm. the bullet travels along the radius (bone) and exits near his elbow. third shot hits his gluteous maximus (butt) as he was beating a hasty retreat. he reports to the E.D. with three gunshot wounds. he claims he was cleaning his gun and it went off (multiple times). police were called and as they were looking for a person with three .22 wounds they did not much believe his story. also the .22 slug in his butt was found against his upper femur (hip bone). he walked in but was limping.
(5) man was carring a .22 semiauto of unknown type (to me). he was about to enter a resturant with his wife and decided to put the weapon in her purse. as he dropped it in her purse it went off and drove a .22 slug into his upper right lung just below the shoulder. he went to grab the pistol and it went off again as he grabbed it . that shot missed his wife by inches. his lung was almost instantly deflated and that causes great pain but luckly for him no major blood vessels were involved. he said when he finally got a good grip on the pistol he unloaded it. when i asked what he did with it he said he gave it to his cousin. i said you don't like him much do you.

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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.

[This message has been edited by riddleofsteel (edited May 12, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by riddleofsteel (edited May 12, 2000).]
 
Here's one from some Sheriff's Deputies in my home town:
Two guys in a bar get into a fight (both have records, BTW). One pulls a .25 auto, upon seeing this, the other allegedly says "That gun ain't big enough to stop me." Clown with .25 fires, hitting advancing clown 6 times. The second clown, with 6 bullets in him, proceeds to mop up the bar with the shooter. They both arrive in the hospital. The one that was shot received only superficial wounds, he's treated and released the next day. The shooter's hospital visit was somewhat more extended...
 
Oleg:

I posted this story once before but I couldn't find the link to it (maybe it got moved over the TFL server) so I'll relay the events again for those that might have missed it the original time around.

This happened to a deputy that I once knew. I didn't actually personally know the deputy but I knew who he was as we would sometimes nod "hello" to each other in the locker room.

He frequently worked the evening shift and because he knew first hand what the crime was like, he felt uncomfortable having his wife home alone and unarmed. So he bought her a Raven .25 pistol. His wife was a small woman, less than 5 feet tall and weighing under 100 pounds which is why I guess they went for such a small gun instead of something with more stopping power.

One night she heard someone breaking into her home. She grabbed her gun. Loaded the magazine, locked her bedroom door and called the police.

From what I understand, the police were at the house in under five minutes (especially since it involved the wife of a fellow deputy). When they got there, they found the intrudor dead a few feet from the front door and they also found the woman dead in her bedroom.

Nobody knows what really happened because the two people involved were dead but from the physical evidence, the investigators were able to put together the following ...

The intrudor kicked in the bedroom door and the woman starting firing. We don't know the order of bullet placement but one shot missed, two landed in the chest, one in the stomach, one in the shoulder and one in the leg. When the woman stopped shooting (because her gun was empty), the intrudor strangled her and tried to make his way out of the house.

Interesting enough, it was the shot in the leg that caused his death since it hit a vein or something causing him to pass out from the drop in blood pressure and caused his heart to stop. The .25 killed him and killed him quickly (in under 5 minutes or there abouts) but it was not able to stop him.

Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif
 
I apologize for the vagueness but here's my mousegun story as clear as I can recall it.

State Trooper involved in a traffic stop had the 200 lb driver pull a .22 auto on him, the cop shoots first with 2 rounds of .357 Mag into the abdominal area of the BG, the BG returns fire with a single .22LR shot. This round hits the bullet proof vest wearing Trooper in the armpit and traverses the chest cavity into his heart killing him instantly, the BG recovers after surgery. If ever there was a story about bullet placement and maybe sheer luck (or bad luck) determining the outcome of a shooting incident, then to me this is it.

There are also at least 2 well documented cases of .25 ACP hardball bouncing straight back (not glancing) off a G.I.'s skull towards the end of WWII when SS officers were being rounded up in Austria/Germany, they were fond of carrying such back up pistols. My wife's uncle who was involved in this process managed to "appropriate" one for his personal collection, fascinating in so far as it has an internal slide action.

Mike H

[This message has been edited by Mike H (edited May 12, 2000).]
 
The previous mouse gun story was a South Carolina tragedy. That's about how it went too.

Brother in Law (cop) had a spate of .25 ACP shootings in his town. Three shootings, three killings. The ammo was the same. Wal-Mart had just come to town and had sold all the local BGs CCI Blazer ammo. I think it the combination of fresh ammo and the good bullets that CCI uses helped out. The shootings were all face shots. Apparently the eye socket is a pretty good channel to the brain.

I know of one shooting some years ago where the ex-wife shot the ex in the shoulder and he died on the scene. Had a heart attack after he was hit and croaked prior to the ambulance getting there.

Giz

[This message has been edited by Gizmo99 (edited May 12, 2000).]
 
I believe that Mike's story may be about the Trooper Coates shooting in SC.

Got a call one morning about shots fired over on the wealthy side of town. Victim attempted suicide with one of those pot-metal El Cheapo .22's. Placed the barrel under his chin and pulled the trigger.

The .22 round traveled up through the soft tissue in his lower jaw, went through his tongue, hit the hard palate in the roof of his mouth and veered almost 90 degrees to exit his right cheek just below the cheekbone. Minimal to no bleeding.

Man was caught cheating on his girlfriend, who retrieved his .25 Raven and fired upon him in the bed. Bullet hit him in the face, pierced his lip and shattered his two upper front teeth.

He staggered about 10 blocks to the SO, where the EMTs advised him to spit out the tooth fragments into a cup of saline solution. One of the fragments was the .25 FMJ.

Wife decided to do something about her husband coming home drunk every evening, sio when he trickeled in the front door one night, she shot him point blank with a Beretta .25.

We got there, and he's laying flat on his back on the front porch, unconscious, with a small spot of blood on the front of his T-shirt.

I tugged gently at the T-shirt to see what sort of damage had been done, and the tugging motion pulled the bullet out of his chest. Never penetrated the sternum, but I guess it counts as a one-shot stop...

Those come to mind just off-hand. Hope it helps.

LawDog
 
I heard of one here where in a bar fight one participant unloaded a .25 into anothers head at close range. The shootee then stabbed the shooter to death and caught a bus to the hospital. None of the bullets had penetrated the skull, just traveled under the skin and exited out the back.

A local dealer told me about a sheriff who was giving a lecture while fiddling with a NAA revolver in his pocket. He allegedly shot himself in the ***** while at the podium. He lived but may not breed.
 
Indian friend got shot in head with small caliber gun at a bar. He takes gun away from gunslinger, beats hell out of him, calls cops, waits and gives statement then is taken to hospital. Released in about 3 days, has dent in skull. A hard headed man to be sure. :D
 
How about stories involving a .38 spec snubnose like My Taurus Model 85 UL.

How effective is it?

georgiaC.gif


I've got Federal 110 grain Personal Defense ammo in it?

Wanted Nyclad's, but can't find em.......
View
 
Scooter71-

Ya might want to start a different thread for that one. Let's stick to mouseguns here; you .38 is in the "real gun" range.
 
Scooter,

Rumor has it that the cops are hogging all the Nyclads, I didn't even think they bothered with .38's anymore. The 110gr Federal PD round will never get up enough steam to work properly out of a 2" Bbl, that's why they introduced the Nyclad. Since the 85UL is +P rated you are clear to go ahead and load the most succesful round for the .38, namely the 158gr LSWCHP in a +P loading, lots of dead felons agree, happy hunting.

Mike H
 
something worth remembering here is that the calibers we are talking about .22 short, .22 long/long rifle, .25, .32 can all be deadly. they are often critized as being underpowered and they are. however they can pentrate deeply and cut major vessels or injure organs. i compare the wounds to those delivered by a rapier (thin diamond shaped sword for stabbing). the problem is they can and do kill but unless you are VERY lucky they do not "stop" in time. in htese days when you have ultra small guns available in .380, 9mm and .40 auto why carry a mouse gun?

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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
 
Is this a LSWCHP? I bought this a while back, but never shot them....

they are +P..

View




<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike H:
Scooter,

Rumor has it that the cops are hogging all the Nyclads, I didn't even think they bothered with .38's anymore. The 110gr Federal PD round will never get up enough steam to work properly out of a 2" Bbl, that's why they introduced the Nyclad. Since the 85UL is +P rated you are clear to go ahead and load the most succesful round for the .38, namely the 158gr LSWCHP in a +P loading, lots of dead felons agree, happy hunting.

Mike H[/quote]
 
The point to remember (and understand) is that any caliber/cartridge can be lethal. In selfdefense lethality isn't the question. What's needed is stopping the threat. Mouseguns have occasionally stopped the threat but the probability is that they will not RELIABLY put an end to hostilities. In some cases I know of (I'm retired LEO) they agrivate the situation.

Cooper told this story at Gunsight in 1977:
A female agent he was training asked about carrying a 25 Auto in her purse. He answered, "Carry it if it comforts you, but do not load it. If you load it you may fire it. If you fire it you may hit someone. IF you hit them you may anger them and they will do you harm."

That response has become legendary in some circles. I use it in the CCW classes I teach.

Dave T
PCSD Ret.
 
wife beater takes 3 .25s in the upper body. rougnecked the next day with three slugs still in him.

elderly black man shoot one of three white intruders/burglars with a .22lr revolver (# of hits unknown). they dumped the shot man out of their pick up into the bar ditch after he died from internal bleeding.
 
Here is a .38 snub story.
In an ER I worked at previously, we had a guy come in that had been shot point blank in the abdomen with a .38 snubbie.
Apparently he and another dude wanted to whip the ass of another smaller individual. Unfortunately, the smaller dude was going to have none of that, pulled his gun, and let one fly into this guys belly.
As it turned out, the slug penetrated only about 1/2 inch and did not enter the peritoneal cavity. It was removed in the ER, and the guy was discharged the same night.

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"Pathfinders Light the Way!"

[This message has been edited by Allen_Raiford (edited May 14, 2000).]
 
May 20, 1980, my partner spotted a guy who had just tossed a molotov cocktail on a building and approached him, the crook bastard pulled a Beretta 25 and fired once,
shot hit my partner in the head, DOA. I was off duty that night. Rest In Peace Carl

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No man is above the law and no man is below it,nor do we ask any mans permission when we require him to obey it.

[This message has been edited by Texaken (edited May 14, 2000).]
 
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