Motor Oil = Gun Oil...... Opinions?

"Hey Mike, I am getting a negative vibe from you regarding commercial gun oils."

Nope, not at all.

I use Rem Oil with Teflon on many of my guns. I've also got Breakfree, but I tend to use grease in the internals of my revolvers.

If you go back and read my messages again, you'll see that I'm only questioning the concept that gun oils are apparently OK to use because they have gun in the name or application description, yet we don't have even less information on what's in them and what their long-term effects might be than for motor oil.

A lot of nonsequitor arguments have been tossed around, but it all comes back to one simple fact -- some are apparently accepting strictly on faith that if a manufacturer puts the word gun on the label, it's been specially formulated to be the best firearms lubricant possible and that it will have absolutely zero long-term negative effects on the gun, its finish, etc.

That's a position that is simply unsustainable for the reasons I have already stated (no long term studies as to their effects, no definitive knowledge about any additives, no set firearms industry standards as to what constitutes a "gun" oil), and it's a rather curious one that just doesn't make much sense.
 
[quote/]ANY oil can lift nickel plating, if it's plated over copper.[/quote]


Sorry, but what do you base that comment on? As a chemical engineer that worked for decades around plating baths, I have to scratch my head and say "*** was he thinking?" I know of no commonly available oil or automotive oil that will harm copper, nickle, lead, tin, iron, chrome, aluminum, brass or magnesium. Obviously, I don't know it all (and sorry to sound like one here), so please inform me if there are some oil dangers that I am not aware of.


As far as I can tell pretty much oil is oil is oil. The various companies do add things so that the oils can absorb and neutralize acidic combustion byproduct and withstand high temperatures, extreme pressures, keep particulates in suspension and not sludge up with exposure to moisture, etc. Synthetic oils are really just much more pure with a nearly 100% content of only one specific molecule (where dino squeezings being distilled have some very small mixture of various molecular weights, different constituents and traces of things like sulfur).

Now with that said, there are better products to help protect metal than straight automotive oils. Guns want the mating surfaces to be low friction but they don't like too much lube. Modern gun products are more than just oils (often containing silicone) they lubricate, protect and evaporate leaving a non-sticky trace that does not hinder operations nor allow the collection of contaminates the way normal oils will. I use EEZOX.

whew, sorry to be a long winded bore....
 
I didn't say it would harm it, I said it would lift it.

Maybe I'm wrong, but my understanding is that if a nickle plate over copper is breached, say scratched, and oil is allowed to contaminate the area between the layers, it can eventually float (? may not be the best word) the plating off the copper in the same manner that Hoppes can float guilding metal out of the bore of a rifle.

Basically, it hastens the delamination process.
 
We're talking about oil, why the animosity???

I use RemOil and Breakfree. Why? Because it's marketed for firearm's use. Am I taking it on faith? Well, yeah. Just as I'm taking it on faith that Mobile 1 is a good motor oil......because it's marketed for motors....it's motor oil. Yes, we do know more about what's in motor oil than gun oils. So what. Nobody can prove what the long term effects are or that it's in any way superior to gun oils. Nobody can prove anything. Again, it's just "I use it, it works" repeatedly from anonymous internet folks. I'd much rather take it on faith that gun oil is safe for guns than ass-u-me that motor oil is okay because a handful of anonymous guys on the internet with absolutely no liability or accountability told me so. And why? To save a couple dollars??? Please. RemOil in an aerosol can is convenient. BreakFree in a little squeeze bottle with an applicator tube is convenient. Motor oil in a one quart container with a spout designed for pouring into your crankcase is not convenient.

Name one gunwriter or reputable gunsmith who advocates using motor oil on guns.

Regarding ATF, hell no I ain't putting red-stained hydraulic fluid on my guns. Particularly any of my sixguns with "white" grips.


And gun writers? Come on now......
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Oh, I forgot, this group doesn't read anything that doesn't come on a computer screen. :rolleyes:
 
Oh, I forgot, this group doesn't read anything that doesn't come on a computer screen.
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That's a bit of a stretch Craig. Most people here are certainly not mall ninja computer junky types, and you have really no basis for that comment (common theme).

This is a conversation about oil, no need to insult the whole forum.
 
Name one gunwriter or reputable gunsmith who advocates using motor oil on guns.
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Grant Cunningham. Well, not motor oil, but ATF. And he provides data to support his claims.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html said:
Cut to the chase! What should I use?
Let's start with oil. Most people use oils that are way too heavy; thicker is not better! Use a relatively thin oil with the correct properties, and use it very sparingly - most "oil failures" I've seen have been from too much, rather than too little, oil.

Frankly, in terms of mechanical performance most oils "work"; some are better than others, but everything will make parts move for a while. What really gets most oils is lack of corrosion resistance - in a gun, corrosion is a bad thing! There have been lots of claims, but those people who have actually taken the time to run experiments to test corrosion on steel have found that the products with the greatest hype are often the worst at corrosion resistance. Not surprisingly, plain mineral oils, such as Rem Oil, score at the very bottom of the list.

Ironically, the product that scores at or very near the top of just about everyone's testing is also the most available, and the cheapest. It also has good migration, a good boundary lubrication package, is the right weight (thickness) for general firearms use, doesn't oxidize over long periods of storage, and is compatible with a wide range of metals and plastics. In addition, it is recommended by at least one real degreed firearms engineer! Just what is this miracle elixir??

Dexron-type Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF).
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Chris
 
That's a bit of a stretch Craig.
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Not really. Seems to be a subtle, recurring theme. I notice it throughout nearly every internet message board I participate on. The internet has become a crutch for those unwilling to research on their own and a meeting place for those disgruntled with ad-whore publications like G&A.


This is a conversation about oil, no need to insult the whole forum.
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This is a conversation about oil, no need to insult the entire industry of gunwriters. Some of whom are present.

ATF is primarily a hydraulic fluid. Its lubrication properties are secondary. Maybe it works okay, maybe it doesn't. My main grief with it is that it contains a red dye.

Motor oil is designed to operate at high temperatures. It's designed to do its job in extreme heat. At room temperatures, it's simply way too thick. Cunningham's writing supports the notion that motor oil is entirely too thick to be used as a general purpose gun oil.
 
Maybe I'm wrong, but my understanding is that if a nickle plate over copper is breached, say scratched, and oil is allowed to contaminate the area between the layers, it can eventually float (? may not be the best word) the plating off the copper in the same manner that Hoppes can float guilding metal out of the bore of a rifle.

Basically, it hastens the delamination process.
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Not that I am aware of, no. Now a bore cleaner (copper scrubber) WOULD do just that. But oil (gun, motor, ATF, hydraulic) won't harm it even if there is a scratch -- unless the plating was so horrifically bad that it would flake off with fingernail scratching. But in that case, the plated metal wasn't really on there correctly and it would come off by itself anyway. That's rare, unless the prep work was skipped entirely or some other silliness was done in the plating operation.


jb
 
It seems like any tool in my garage that has gotten motor oil on it grabs all sorts of dirt, dust, and grit.

This doesn't seem desirable for firearms, but maybe applying it sparingly could prevent it.

At any rate, gun oil isn't that expensive.
 
A lot of nonsequitor arguments have been tossed around, but it all comes back to one simple fact -- some are apparently accepting strictly on faith that if a manufacturer puts the word gun on the label, it's been specially formulated to be the best firearms lubricant possible and that it will have absolutely zero long-term negative effects on the gun, its finish, etc.
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I would have to agree. It is rather unsettling when you realize the lack of industry standards to a gun oil or cleaner. So with respect to that I would tend to gravitate more to the tried and true than the newest miracle oil/solvent. That's why I use Kroil and Rem-Oil (with teflon), they have been around for a while and work for me. After reviewing that article by Grant Cunningham I think that the argument for a highly viscous "grease" for the slide rail for example makes a lot of sense. The argument for ATF is also good, but to me it seems like its excellent as a solvent/gun cleaning oil than as a sole lubricant. It basically does what I use Kroil for, but I would think Kroil does the job better. At any rate, I like the idea of the Brownell's action lube and am seriously considering getting some. This has been a very informative thread.
 
Oil for fine machines, guns (especially triggers), fishing reels, clocks, typewriters, etc. need an oil that has decent film strenth AND won't form a varnish like film when it drys. All liquids evaporate eventually, petroleum oils and many vegatable oils make a fine varnish. WD-40 leaves a stiff varnish after the carrier evaporates. Common auto greases, including the soap based lithum types, will slowly turn into a very stiff gooey mess.

Many, if not all, synthetic oils are quite slow evaporators and usually do not form varnish.

I use Automatic Transmission Fluid and, sometimes, Mobile1 when I need more viscosity, with complete satisfaction for gun oils. The film strength of both is quite good so they are excellant rust inhibitors as well as good lubes.

I've found that OMC (Evenrude/Johnson Outboards) marine "high pressure" grease works very well, drys very slowly and is water proof, which lithum grease is not. Other brands are likey justas good but I've been usuing the same bid "toothpaste" tube for 25 or more years (only used mabe a quarter of it) so I haven't tried anythig else.

What most folks don't seem to understand is that no one "makes" special oils for guns, it's just to expensive to do so and it's not necessary anyway. What happens is the sellers buy various common oils and greases and resell them as they are or mix up some concoction they think makes a better product. Maybe they're right, but I'm so satisfied with what I've been using since LBJ shafted us with massive federal national debt to share the wealth and eliminate poverty that I don't care.
 
Wow five pages on gun oil! It appears gun people are as over stressed about their oils as car owners are. Now I have a simple question, who here has had a gun failure because of the type of oil / grease they are using? I doubt any have.

I know that I never had a failure or excessive wear or rust and I have used the ABC's of oils etc. In fact true be told I have a few firearms that have went way longer than they should have without be cleaned and they still will out last me.

At one time I used so much WD-40 that my wife thought I bought the company. My dad has used Hoppe #9 for his whole lifetime and nothing else.

Today I use what ever I pick up, one time it could be Break Free another time it could be Shooters Choice or what ever.

Well I can't say anything has ever failed and the guns do pretty good with a simple wipe down with a cloth. even though I seldom every put a coat of oil on a gun after using it I have never had one rust either.

So in my unscientific opinion it doesn't mater except for all those manufactures that spend money trying to tell you it does.
 
I think that the argument for a highly viscous "grease" for the slide rail for example makes a lot of sense.
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It works great for me. Grease is definitely one of the better and cheaper options for firearm lubrication.
 
Motor Oil = Gun Oil??

Flush the WD40, anyone who is spraying that in or around a gun is an IDIOT. It is a penetrating oil that will KILL primers in the bullets that are in your GUN. I use stayput grease, under many names and in my Glocks there are so many less areas to apply it to.
 
Here is my opinion on gun lubes:

1. Compared to the cost of guns and especially the ammo we shoot in them, even the most expensive premium specialty "gun" lubes are super cheap to use.

2. Just as I have learned that the old saying "the right tool for the job" has a lot of merit, I also believe that the right chemical product for the application also does.

3. I do not have the chemical engineering education or the lab equipment to properly and scientifically know what common or cheaper products can be substituted having good results and without negative effects.

4. Given that dedicated products are not relatively expensive, and that I am not confident that I can substitute just anything for them, my clear choice is to go with the application specific designed/engineered products.
 
Flush the WD40, anyone who is spraying that in or around a gun is an IDIOT. It is a penetrating oil that will KILL primers in the bullets that are in your GUN. I use stayput grease, under many names and in my Glocks there are so many less areas to apply it to.
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There is an interesting "experiment" that was done on a forum about WD-40 on primers and a lot of other solvents / oils too. ZERO failures were found on sealed primers in a loaded case. All oils killed primers that were open, but the seal is pretty good. At least for the guy doing the test.

His recommendation was that WD-40 and other solvents/lubes were fine, just wipe off any excess and there should be no problem. Don't know if that was conclusive enough, but it made sense to me. Then again, I wouldn't dunk ammo and store it in WD-40 then rely on it in a gun fight!!!!


Ha! Found it!

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot39.htm

Again, small sample size, but the result is logical.

jb
 
You know, this is a discussion about oil. That's all. And I've read discussions about the 1911, and Taurus, and a host of other topics here recently, and they all have one thing in common. Outright animosity and bold face insults.
There are other discussions that may warrant some animosity, like being cheated on a product, or being called out on unsafe firearms suggestions, or reloading procedures. But oil?:confused:
 
Oil won't delaminate plating, Mike. Most nickel over copper plating jobs were done in bumper plating shops and are not quality work. Copper solvents will attack a copper underplate if left on for a long time, and there is a breach in the nickel.
Grease is a wonderful thing for revolver internals and auto rails.
And WD 40 won't "kill" primers if used with any common sense, and it doesn't dry into a varnish.
Baby oil is scented mineral oil. While it would be better than no lube, mineral oil does not have the viscosity and lubricating properties desired in a gun lube.
If you are unsure what oil to use, by all means-use a "gun oil." If you are a little more seasoned, then use what works for you.
 
Sheesh!

Wow, this is truly amazing...

Forgive me for answering someone's question: Yes, it would be "cheaper" to use used motor oil but that stuff is carcinogenic and more toxic than fresh oil on top of having microscopic crud in it. It's a no-go.

And also forgive me for noticing someone's valid concern: The red dye used in ATF. I've seen what the blue and red dies used in aviation gas does to various surfaces and materials and, no thank you, I don't want dies anywhere near any of my firearms.

Seriously people, Break Free CLP was a vast improvement on plain old oils and greases when it was introduced in my 82nd Airborne Division armory 25 years ago for use on our battle rifles and machine guns in some of the worst freakin environments imaginable. It's never let me down, it's never harmed a finish on any of my many firearms, it's an outstanding Lubricant (as well as Cleaner & Protectant), and it just doesn't cost that doggone much! Why on Earth I would use anything else escapes me but why on Earth I'd use some refuge from the auto parts store not expressly designed, tested and intended for use on firearms just bloody well escapes me also.

Out.

Oly
 
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