And the winner is. I stopped at a Pa. Game Commission public range. These are a great use of license funds by the way. As I walked from the parking lot to the handgun range as I rounded the path to the benches. Our winner has his muzzle pointed at my chest at about 10' adjusting his sights . As politely as I could I asked if he could point it down range. I got the usual Oh its not loaded. Best part is he has his wife and kid teaching them how to shoot. I asked if ok to put up targets.I yelled Hold your fire all clear guns down. After asking and visual making sure he was clear I put up targets on the 25 yard bench. He was on the 10. I returned to the bench. Made sure no one over the firing line. Asked if he was good. He said yes. I yelled ready on the firing line range is hot (this is the usual procedure at this range). I fired 3 rounds and out of the corner of my eye I see him walk half way to his target. Trying to stay calm I put my safety on, Cleared my gun and yelled hold your fire all clear even if we were the only two shooting. He looked at me like I was nuts I cleared my gun and walked over to him and tried explain but I could tell it wasn't sinking in. By this time I had enough. Told him I wanted to clean up my targets. Went through the same all clear procedure. Got my targets and as I'm walking back to the line I hear his slide slam home on a round with his gun pointed my way. I didn't want a confrontation. So I got out of there as fast as I could. But all the way home I felt I should have done something especially since his wife and child were there . What would you have done?
Most Safety Violations in 15 minutes
- Thread starter lunger
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Bluestarlizzard
New member
Public ranges at parks like that are kinda along the lines of you get what you pay for.
I think you did about all you could do, to be honest. You,tried talking to the guy about safe procedure. When that didn't work, you got the hell out of dodge.
You can always hope that the fact that it was obvious that you left because of him maybe sunk in and started the gears in his brains to tick along what you were trying to explain.
I understand your distress over the wife and kid. Obviously, this guy is endangering them as well as teaching them bad habits, but again, I'm not sure what else you could have done that wouldn't have potentially led to a bad scene.
I think you did about all you could do, to be honest. You,tried talking to the guy about safe procedure. When that didn't work, you got the hell out of dodge.
You can always hope that the fact that it was obvious that you left because of him maybe sunk in and started the gears in his brains to tick along what you were trying to explain.
I understand your distress over the wife and kid. Obviously, this guy is endangering them as well as teaching them bad habits, but again, I'm not sure what else you could have done that wouldn't have potentially led to a bad scene.
g.willikers
New member
When some pea brain points a gun at me, I grab my chest and fall to the ground.
That usually gets their attention.
Frothing at the mouth can add an additional dimension.
Or just take away their gun and beat them about the head and shoulders with it.
Naw, you did right.
Just get safely away to shoot another day.
That usually gets their attention.
Frothing at the mouth can add an additional dimension.
Or just take away their gun and beat them about the head and shoulders with it.
Naw, you did right.
Just get safely away to shoot another day.
I would've just left as you should have from the start.
There is a HUGE gray area of what shooters consider 'safe practices' and when our views differ is when we have issues.
I won't defend this person he seems worse the most. But if the range had an RO tell him its his job to handle it. If its just u and him just leave. No need to approach him and make a bad situation worse.
There is a HUGE gray area of what shooters consider 'safe practices' and when our views differ is when we have issues.
I won't defend this person he seems worse the most. But if the range had an RO tell him its his job to handle it. If its just u and him just leave. No need to approach him and make a bad situation worse.
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There is a HUGE gray area of what shooters consider 'safe practices' and when our views differ is when we have issues.__________________
I respectfully disagree
When it comes to safety practices there are no gray areas
Pointing a firearm at someone,
crossing the firing line to check targets will shots are being fired,
Cambering a round when pointed in someone's direction on a range that is clear
This is black and white
You only get one chance and lives are changed forever
I respectfully disagree
When it comes to safety practices there are no gray areas
Pointing a firearm at someone,
crossing the firing line to check targets will shots are being fired,
Cambering a round when pointed in someone's direction on a range that is clear
This is black and white
You only get one chance and lives are changed forever
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buck460XVR
New member
When folks are willing to accept constructive criticism and advice from strangers, that is the time to give it. If [not], one must do as you did and walk away. Far too many folks are willing to give more advice than they care to take.
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
I would have returned to my bench, loaded and locked my pistol, then I would have walked over to him and proceeded to read him the riot act, in a VERY loud voice and using a great many small (as in four-letter) words. If the PA game lands ranges have safety rules posted, I would then have dragged his sorry butt over to the sign and pointed to the appropriate rules that he just violated.lunger said:
I would then have left -- not turning my back on him at any time during my exit stage left.
PA game lands ranges are open to the public but unsupervised. Each user is his/her own range safety officer.Venom1956 said:
"... Trying to stay calm I put my safety on, Cleared my gun and yelled hold your fire all clear even if we were the only two shooting. He looked at me like I was nuts ..."
If I were at the range and the only other shooter present did that rather than just talk to me, I would look at them like they were nuts, too.
If I were at the range and the only other shooter present did that rather than just talk to me, I would look at them like they were nuts, too.
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4runnerman
New member
Lunger- You run into all kinds thats for sure.I had one guy that wanted to shoot while 3 others were putting up targets at 300 yards. His excuse-Im shooting at 100 yards. The biggest mistake I see is racking the slide while gun pointed at the person to the left or right of him.
oldgunsmith
New member
I usually feel thankful when I only have one of those on the range at a time to worry about. There can be more than that.
bedbugbilly
New member
As the saying goes . . . "Sometimes you just can't fix stupid".
Public range or not . . . there's no excuse for unsafe practices. Like you, I would have cleared out . . I think you did about all you could and he obviously was oblivious to what you were trying to get across. I can't say much for his wife either . . . she's an adult and even though she may not be an experienced shooter . . what the heck happened to "common sense"?
It's too bad that in those situations, a license number can't be recorded and turned in to whatever the authority is that has the range under their jurisdiction. I know that DNR LE are busy folks, but guys like that are an accident waiting to happen. If he's that way at a public range . . just think of his hunting practices on public land. Over the years, I've seen too much of guys like that . . . they are also the ones who "shoot first" and "make sure of their target" second.
The only range that I shoot at (other than on my own private land) is an indoor range . . . and that's strictly supervised. However, that doesn't eliminate folks with unsafe practices. When it occurs . . . peer pressure seems to work most of the time . . and if they don't heed a warning, they are thrown out and told not to come back.
Public range or not . . . there's no excuse for unsafe practices. Like you, I would have cleared out . . I think you did about all you could and he obviously was oblivious to what you were trying to get across. I can't say much for his wife either . . . she's an adult and even though she may not be an experienced shooter . . what the heck happened to "common sense"?
It's too bad that in those situations, a license number can't be recorded and turned in to whatever the authority is that has the range under their jurisdiction. I know that DNR LE are busy folks, but guys like that are an accident waiting to happen. If he's that way at a public range . . just think of his hunting practices on public land. Over the years, I've seen too much of guys like that . . . they are also the ones who "shoot first" and "make sure of their target" second.
The only range that I shoot at (other than on my own private land) is an indoor range . . . and that's strictly supervised. However, that doesn't eliminate folks with unsafe practices. When it occurs . . . peer pressure seems to work most of the time . . and if they don't heed a warning, they are thrown out and told not to come back.
Sigh.
When did I ever say those were acceptable. My statement was just pointing out how to each of us 'safe' handling of a firearm is different. I didn't think i'd need to give an example but I guess I do. Such as I was deemed unsafe at a USPSA match repeatedly simply by the habit of holstering my weapon after use. Not dropping the mag chamber check action open, etc. Was I unsafe? Hardly. But in that situation I was.
The person in question probably had a similar habit. Perhaps thats how guns were treated as he grew up or his father taught him. Maybe he's self taught and he doesnt even realize his errors?
While I don't doubt that Aguila Blanca would do the things he posted.
and I'd honestly love to see it.
I'd still stand by that the average person should just leave. My range is indeed unsupervised. We have PILES of idiots that come and do the stupidest things. Since it is unsupervised and its clearly your word vs theirs if it comes to that plus you would be the one initiating the 'conflict' (use that term loosely) Lastly you have no idea what this stranger is capable of.
Leave be safe and come back another day, or find a supervised range.
When did I ever say those were acceptable. My statement was just pointing out how to each of us 'safe' handling of a firearm is different. I didn't think i'd need to give an example but I guess I do. Such as I was deemed unsafe at a USPSA match repeatedly simply by the habit of holstering my weapon after use. Not dropping the mag chamber check action open, etc. Was I unsafe? Hardly. But in that situation I was.
The person in question probably had a similar habit. Perhaps thats how guns were treated as he grew up or his father taught him. Maybe he's self taught and he doesnt even realize his errors?
While I don't doubt that Aguila Blanca would do the things he posted.
and I'd honestly love to see it.I'd still stand by that the average person should just leave. My range is indeed unsupervised. We have PILES of idiots that come and do the stupidest things. Since it is unsupervised and its clearly your word vs theirs if it comes to that plus you would be the one initiating the 'conflict' (use that term loosely) Lastly you have no idea what this stranger is capable of.
Leave be safe and come back another day, or find a supervised range.
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spanishjames
New member
I was at a busy indoor range recently, and had one of those types in the stall next to me. He and his buddy were shooting from the same stall. The guy started off not wearing his eye protection while his friend shot. I let him know by pointing at my "eyes", and he just smiled and said "No one's shooting in this direction." Later he broke another rule by loading his revolver behind the line, not on the bench. I eventually saw him arguing with the RO, who had warned him at least a couple times about loading away from the bench. He had to be threatened with expulsion before he took anyone seriously.
The point is there's always a know-it-all. The worst are those who fail to receive advice without taking it personally.
The point is there's always a know-it-all. The worst are those who fail to receive advice without taking it personally.
Stories like this make me glad I am a member of a private range. We have no RO's...we are each explicitly empowered to be RO's.
In the years I have been a member, I have never seen any unsafe behavior, nor seen any member called out by another.
Everyone gets along...I feel blessed every time I spin the combination on the gate.
In the years I have been a member, I have never seen any unsafe behavior, nor seen any member called out by another.
Everyone gets along...I feel blessed every time I spin the combination on the gate.
PA Game Commission....
In general, if you feel unsafe or think the other range shooters or gun owners are not following the range SOPs, then I would leave.
If you seen a minor safety violation or infraction, I'd be polite but remind the target shooter/group of the range SOP or safety rule. If they continue to violate the range safety SOPs or are unstable/aggressive, then get the range master or safety officer.
Many ranges & parks now have CCTVs or security systems to monitor the lanes.
Id be honest & say some gun owners or shooters may not know all the safety rules or SOPs if they are new. Some ranges do not allow rapid fire or certain types of ammunition or they limit the amount of rounds that can be fired.
In 1999, my good friend & I were on a free PGC range near Pittsburgh PA.
We had my Beretta 96D .40 & his old Colt .38spl 4" revolver. None of the other gun owners or target shooters said ANYTHING to either of us. We shot for about a hour. A "deputy"(who we later learned was a non-sworn volunteer) claimed we were shooting excessive amounts of rounds & told us we'd be cited.
A uniformed PGC game officer showed up & started to yell at us. We pled NOT GUILTY & went to a district justice hearing about 6 weeks later. The trial was a circus & we were CLEARED. The WCO & his deputy were ticked!
In closing, I would advise being considerate & open when using public(free) ranges. I'd read or go over any posted signs/safety rules too. If the range has any cadre or rangers ask them if they have any safety concerns or rules you should know about before you shoot.
In general, if you feel unsafe or think the other range shooters or gun owners are not following the range SOPs, then I would leave.
If you seen a minor safety violation or infraction, I'd be polite but remind the target shooter/group of the range SOP or safety rule. If they continue to violate the range safety SOPs or are unstable/aggressive, then get the range master or safety officer.
Many ranges & parks now have CCTVs or security systems to monitor the lanes.
Id be honest & say some gun owners or shooters may not know all the safety rules or SOPs if they are new. Some ranges do not allow rapid fire or certain types of ammunition or they limit the amount of rounds that can be fired.
In 1999, my good friend & I were on a free PGC range near Pittsburgh PA.
We had my Beretta 96D .40 & his old Colt .38spl 4" revolver. None of the other gun owners or target shooters said ANYTHING to either of us. We shot for about a hour. A "deputy"(who we later learned was a non-sworn volunteer) claimed we were shooting excessive amounts of rounds & told us we'd be cited.
A uniformed PGC game officer showed up & started to yell at us. We pled NOT GUILTY & went to a district justice hearing about 6 weeks later. The trial was a circus & we were CLEARED.
The WCO & his deputy were ticked!In closing, I would advise being considerate & open when using public(free) ranges. I'd read or go over any posted signs/safety rules too. If the range has any cadre or rangers ask them if they have any safety concerns or rules you should know about before you shoot.
trg42wraglefragle
New member
Shooters like that should be very thankful they live in the US as any country that requires a licence to own a fire arm, it would disappear before there eyes.
I think once back safely being the firing line you should have torn strips off him. He will not learn other wise, and next time he's at the range he may not be so lucky to not harm anyone.
I think once back safely being the firing line you should have torn strips off him. He will not learn other wise, and next time he's at the range he may not be so lucky to not harm anyone.
small kids, distractions....
Range topics & proper methods have come up before.
My main point on any gun range; private or public(free) is to be considerate, safe, clean up your trash or brass/stuff when you are done, and avoid any possible distractions or annoyances to other shooters.
That includes small children who are unattended or using cell phone cameras/DV to record other target shooters.
A few months ago, my friend & I were a Gander Mountain location shooting a semi-auto pistol(a M&P .45acp compact). About 20min into our session, a group comes in about 3 lanes down that starts shooting a huge .480Ruger target revolver.
It was loud!
Range topics & proper methods have come up before.
My main point on any gun range; private or public(free) is to be considerate, safe, clean up your trash or brass/stuff when you are done, and avoid any possible distractions or annoyances to other shooters.
That includes small children who are unattended or using cell phone cameras/DV to record other target shooters.
A few months ago, my friend & I were a Gander Mountain location shooting a semi-auto pistol(a M&P .45acp compact). About 20min into our session, a group comes in about 3 lanes down that starts shooting a huge .480Ruger target revolver.
It was loud!