Most reliable handgun in subzero weather: revolver or semi?
- Thread starter Shep
- Start date
I think there are many guns that will suit your purposes.
I'll address two, which I have personal experence. Meaning 22 years in Alaska using these two guns ( coldest I've shot them was 60 below) and that after being exposed to the sub zero temps for several hours.
Revolver: Smith Model 28. I carried it for most of my 20 years on APD. It dosn't care how cold it is.
Semi: While in the National Guard I carred a USGI 1911A1, We did most of our training in the winter. I can set out all day and expect it to fire the first and every other time.
I'm sure there are others that work just as well, but I can swear these two will work.
I'll address two, which I have personal experence. Meaning 22 years in Alaska using these two guns ( coldest I've shot them was 60 below) and that after being exposed to the sub zero temps for several hours.
Revolver: Smith Model 28. I carried it for most of my 20 years on APD. It dosn't care how cold it is.
Semi: While in the National Guard I carred a USGI 1911A1, We did most of our training in the winter. I can set out all day and expect it to fire the first and every other time.
I'm sure there are others that work just as well, but I can swear these two will work.
I remember an acticle I read many years ago. I believe it was by Chuck Taylor where he took several brands of auto's and revolvers to Alaska or somewhere that was very cold and run a test on them for reliability. If I remember correctly he loaded the guns and left them outside for hours. There was only one or two autos that functioned correctly out of the five or six. One was a Glock 17 and the other I can't remember. All the revolvers taken along for the test work 100%.
I think that most (decent) modern firearms you should be alright with either. WildAlaska has a good point about revolvers and Stalingrad though.
I would also like to add that I've never been called a panssyis. Should we be mad or grateful? I can't find the definition of that word anywhere.
I would also like to add that I've never been called a panssyis. Should we be mad or grateful? I can't find the definition of that word anywhere.
sharpshot71
New member
As many have said, the lube type used is more important than the gun type. I saw two different semis completely quit working in the cold, one a CZ 75, and the other a Taurus PT99 (the Berretta 92 clone). My Taurus PT111 MilPro functioned flawlessly as always. The difference was that I use a Remington dry lube with Teflon, and my friends had oily guns. The oil got sticky, and their guns wouldn't work.
Like many have said, use a small amount of light oil, and test it in the cold if you have the opportunity. Unless you drop it in the slush, the cold shouldn't change anything in your gun besides the oil.
Like many have said, use a small amount of light oil, and test it in the cold if you have the opportunity. Unless you drop it in the slush, the cold shouldn't change anything in your gun besides the oil.
Great question
I was wondering that myself. This is day three of being virtually iced-in my home in the ATL. I was wondering at what point my Ruger P95 frame might become brittle and began to consider a 1911 or a .357 for cold weather use.
I got on line and found that the Alaska State Troopers are issued the Glock model 22. I remember when I lived in Anchorage, there was a two week period when it never got above -15 and the lows were -30 or colder. I guess the polymer guns are pretty tough.
Peachy
I was wondering that myself. This is day three of being virtually iced-in my home in the ATL. I was wondering at what point my Ruger P95 frame might become brittle and began to consider a 1911 or a .357 for cold weather use.
I got on line and found that the Alaska State Troopers are issued the Glock model 22. I remember when I lived in Anchorage, there was a two week period when it never got above -15 and the lows were -30 or colder. I guess the polymer guns are pretty tough.
Peachy
Deaf Smith
New member
Dry lube is THE thing for real cold climates.
And guns with not to many small parts.
And that is why Glocks work so well in cold. Self lubercation of the polymer frame and robust parts.
Chuck Taylor found in Alaska three guns that worked very well in super cold climates. 1911s, N frame Smith revolvers, and Glocks.
Deaf
And guns with not to many small parts.
And that is why Glocks work so well in cold. Self lubercation of the polymer frame and robust parts.
Chuck Taylor found in Alaska three guns that worked very well in super cold climates. 1911s, N frame Smith revolvers, and Glocks.
Deaf
Magnum Wheel Man
New member
not just the oil...
I've noted drops in velocity ( Chronograph recorded ) ( which with the thinner cold air, you would expect higher velocities ) from shooting in the winter ( note I live in Minnesota, it gets cold here ) you guys can quote all the studys you want for the reliability of your semi autos, but if the cartridge ( weather that's the fault of the powder, primer, or a combination ) doesn't offer enough force to reliably cycle the action, it's not going to matter how slippery your lube in in sub zero weather
BTW... I've already tried 7-8 different semi autos, of various manufactuers, with various lubes, & in various calibers over the last 15 years for guns that I keep in the truck year round... the only guns that have been 100% reliable if pulled out at sub zero temps have been revolvers...
granted the reliability is only temperature related ( I've not dropped my stainless GP-100 in gooey mud, then frozen it into a block, & knocked off the frozen crud & shot it... but then I don't expect to expose my truck gun to those conditions...
I have 3 different semi's that work through the carry routine... but if I have to leave a gun in my truck, & expose it to the hot temps of summer, & the coldest temps of winter, that gun is going to be a revolver...
I've noted drops in velocity ( Chronograph recorded ) ( which with the thinner cold air, you would expect higher velocities ) from shooting in the winter ( note I live in Minnesota, it gets cold here ) you guys can quote all the studys you want for the reliability of your semi autos, but if the cartridge ( weather that's the fault of the powder, primer, or a combination ) doesn't offer enough force to reliably cycle the action, it's not going to matter how slippery your lube in in sub zero weather
BTW... I've already tried 7-8 different semi autos, of various manufactuers, with various lubes, & in various calibers over the last 15 years for guns that I keep in the truck year round... the only guns that have been 100% reliable if pulled out at sub zero temps have been revolvers...
granted the reliability is only temperature related ( I've not dropped my stainless GP-100 in gooey mud, then frozen it into a block, & knocked off the frozen crud & shot it... but then I don't expect to expose my truck gun to those conditions...
I have 3 different semi's that work through the carry routine... but if I have to leave a gun in my truck, & expose it to the hot temps of summer, & the coldest temps of winter, that gun is going to be a revolver...
jrinne0430
New member
Air actually gets denser when cold. I never had a gun oil freeze up on me (not extremely cold where I live) but had grease thicken/gum up a bit on the rails. I wonder how graphite works?
the357plan
New member
I had a Ruger Mark I that would always develop a sludge problem then start failing. It was a combination of cold Tennessee winters, oil and dirty 22 LR ammo. Cleaning always cured it for a while. The problem never occurred in the summer. But to Ruger's credit, I have a Mark II that I never clean, never oil and it never fails. It's running dry. Maybe that's the answer.
competition testing
I have noticed failures by both auto and revolver during our winter USPSA matches (see the latest issue of Front Sight for a write-up of our snow-blasts).
If betting one's life I would suggest "...two is one..."
What I've learned: lube matters; HKS speedloaders dropped in the snow can freeze, just like magazines; operator errors increase and often magnify; gloves MUST BE tested in practice to confirm the ability to operate the firearm.
And other stuff....
I have noticed failures by both auto and revolver during our winter USPSA matches (see the latest issue of Front Sight for a write-up of our snow-blasts).
If betting one's life I would suggest "...two is one..."
What I've learned: lube matters; HKS speedloaders dropped in the snow can freeze, just like magazines; operator errors increase and often magnify; gloves MUST BE tested in practice to confirm the ability to operate the firearm.
And other stuff....
Revolvers may be inherently more reliable, which could be even more true under extremely cold conditions, but we have to keep in mind that this is only true if they're kept clean enough for their exposed parts to move. Under many harsh environmental conditions, including contamination with foreign debris and rough treatment, I think that autos tend to be more reliable/durable.
I've had two weather related failures with semi-automatic guns.
The first happened when I was living in Alaska and I found myself unable to load bullets into the magazine of my rifle. Through exposure to cold and wet conditions I was exhibiting signs of frostbite in my hands and fingers which couldn't feel anything.
The second failure occurred with a .45 Colt auto which totally locked up after being exposed to rain.
Never had a failure with a quality revolver.
The first happened when I was living in Alaska and I found myself unable to load bullets into the magazine of my rifle. Through exposure to cold and wet conditions I was exhibiting signs of frostbite in my hands and fingers which couldn't feel anything.
The second failure occurred with a .45 Colt auto which totally locked up after being exposed to rain.
Never had a failure with a quality revolver.
Do we put too much emphasis on "torture tests"?
This is true of ALL machinery, big and small, revolver, auto, truck or tank. If the moving parts are frozen, they are no longer moving parts.
Consider the moving parts of a handgun are generally one or two large parts and a couple of smaller ones. In a revolver, the cylinder (obviously) and pawl, bolt, hammer and trigger are about it. In an auto, you have hammer and trigger (or striker & trigger), disconnector, slide, barrel (tilt barrel design service autos), magazine follower, cartridges, and depending on design, maybe a link, or a safety lever, mag catch, and slide stop.
Excpet for the slide, these parts don't need to move much, but they do need to be free to move, or some part of the operation fails.
Now, we all want absolutely reliable handguns, under all concievable conditions, but really, how many of us, how often put our guns (and our selves) through the kind of stuff done in these torture tests? It has become a very popular thing, and when your favorite "wins" one of these "tests" it becomes "proof" of the superiority of your favorite gun, right?
But every gun and ammo combination has individual quirks, and just because gun ser#xxxxxxx passed the test, it is no guarantee that your "identical" gun will. Maybe a better than fair indication, but no guarantee.
When it comes to extreme cold, things behave differently than they do in temperate climes. Metal get brittle (and this includes springs!). Oil turns to sludge, and grease to a rock. During the Second World War, the Germans learned the hard way a lot of things the Russians already knew about keeping machinery running in the extreme cold. Running with no lube is better than running with the wrong lube.
A lot of those lessons still apply today. And we have specially designed lubes for ultra cold temps now days, as well. The one natural lube that could be counted on in ultra cold is no longer something you can get on the market. Whale oil doesn't care about low temps, but for some time now it's more important to keep it in the whales than on the market.
One big thing to remember is that if your handgun is exposed for hours, and reaches ambient temp, it can break when fired. We are talking extreme, lows here (-20F and below), Something very important to the military, but of less concern to most civilians. We tend to keep our handguns warmer that a private on the line can keep his rifle or machine gun.
So, discuss, argue, bicker, even, butg at the end of the day, if it is frozen, it won't work as planned, no matter what it is.
This is true of ALL machinery, big and small, revolver, auto, truck or tank. If the moving parts are frozen, they are no longer moving parts.
Consider the moving parts of a handgun are generally one or two large parts and a couple of smaller ones. In a revolver, the cylinder (obviously) and pawl, bolt, hammer and trigger are about it. In an auto, you have hammer and trigger (or striker & trigger), disconnector, slide, barrel (tilt barrel design service autos), magazine follower, cartridges, and depending on design, maybe a link, or a safety lever, mag catch, and slide stop.
Excpet for the slide, these parts don't need to move much, but they do need to be free to move, or some part of the operation fails.
Now, we all want absolutely reliable handguns, under all concievable conditions, but really, how many of us, how often put our guns (and our selves) through the kind of stuff done in these torture tests? It has become a very popular thing, and when your favorite "wins" one of these "tests" it becomes "proof" of the superiority of your favorite gun, right?
But every gun and ammo combination has individual quirks, and just because gun ser#xxxxxxx passed the test, it is no guarantee that your "identical" gun will. Maybe a better than fair indication, but no guarantee.
When it comes to extreme cold, things behave differently than they do in temperate climes. Metal get brittle (and this includes springs!). Oil turns to sludge, and grease to a rock. During the Second World War, the Germans learned the hard way a lot of things the Russians already knew about keeping machinery running in the extreme cold. Running with no lube is better than running with the wrong lube.
A lot of those lessons still apply today. And we have specially designed lubes for ultra cold temps now days, as well. The one natural lube that could be counted on in ultra cold is no longer something you can get on the market. Whale oil doesn't care about low temps, but for some time now it's more important to keep it in the whales than on the market.
One big thing to remember is that if your handgun is exposed for hours, and reaches ambient temp, it can break when fired. We are talking extreme, lows here (-20F and below), Something very important to the military, but of less concern to most civilians. We tend to keep our handguns warmer that a private on the line can keep his rifle or machine gun.
So, discuss, argue, bicker, even, butg at the end of the day, if it is frozen, it won't work as planned, no matter what it is.