?Most Important feature of a concealed handgun??
- Thread starter glock06
- Start date
then Reliability
Mike Irwin
Staff
"All of that other stuff matters but what difference will any of it make if the gun doesn't go bang?"
Exactly.
"If you can't hit the broadside of a barn."
The majority of defensive shootings happen when the two individuals are within touching distance of each other.
At those distances, whether or not you can hit the broadside of a barn is really immaterial.
In all the years I've been involved with firearms, I've yet to meet an individual who couldn't reliably hit a mansized target - both hip and point shooting - at those distances, even some of whom have been pretty poor shots when the targets are backed off to 7 yards or more.
I know many of us tend to think along the lines that in a defensive situation we're going to need to draw an accurate bead over many yards, or we're going to need to be able to reload our handgun in less than 3 seconds so we can continue the fight.
Yes, it's good to practice for those things, but are they critical aspects of training?
Data says not.
Once again, the majority of defensive shootings happen within touching distance, or not much farther, and are resolved with fewer than three shots being fired.
That alone should tell us that we should be training to THOSE realities, not a fantasy where you're going to have to make a 71.968 yard shot, reload, and shoot again.
And, within the reality of those parameters, inherent ability to place 15 shots in COM of a B-27 at 10 yards, or slap a fresh 17-round magazine in your Glock in less than 2 seconds, get pushed far down the list of critical issues.
But, what does rise to the top?
Absolute firearm reliability.
If you're within touching distance of your assailant, you want that gun to be 100% reliable. You don't want to find out that your first shot to COM hasn't put the guy down, and now you have a dead gun in your hands and you have HIS hands around your neck. You want that gun to be reliable.
All else, in the reality of defensive shootings, is ancillary. An absolutely reliable firearm is most important.
Exactly.
"If you can't hit the broadside of a barn."
The majority of defensive shootings happen when the two individuals are within touching distance of each other.
At those distances, whether or not you can hit the broadside of a barn is really immaterial.
In all the years I've been involved with firearms, I've yet to meet an individual who couldn't reliably hit a mansized target - both hip and point shooting - at those distances, even some of whom have been pretty poor shots when the targets are backed off to 7 yards or more.
I know many of us tend to think along the lines that in a defensive situation we're going to need to draw an accurate bead over many yards, or we're going to need to be able to reload our handgun in less than 3 seconds so we can continue the fight.
Yes, it's good to practice for those things, but are they critical aspects of training?
Data says not.
Once again, the majority of defensive shootings happen within touching distance, or not much farther, and are resolved with fewer than three shots being fired.
That alone should tell us that we should be training to THOSE realities, not a fantasy where you're going to have to make a 71.968 yard shot, reload, and shoot again.
And, within the reality of those parameters, inherent ability to place 15 shots in COM of a B-27 at 10 yards, or slap a fresh 17-round magazine in your Glock in less than 2 seconds, get pushed far down the list of critical issues.
But, what does rise to the top?
Absolute firearm reliability.
If you're within touching distance of your assailant, you want that gun to be 100% reliable. You don't want to find out that your first shot to COM hasn't put the guy down, and now you have a dead gun in your hands and you have HIS hands around your neck. You want that gun to be reliable.
All else, in the reality of defensive shootings, is ancillary. An absolutely reliable firearm is most important.
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
Completely agree with Mike. Very well said. 
Let me try it a different way and see if the light comes on for some. It's like baking bread. You need flour and water. And a bunch of other ingredients. If you have no flour (reliability) or no water (a gun) you have no bread, period, end of story. Everything else is just extras.
Let me try it a different way and see if the light comes on for some. It's like baking bread. You need flour and water. And a bunch of other ingredients. If you have no flour (reliability) or no water (a gun) you have no bread, period, end of story. Everything else is just extras.
Daugherty16
New member
Reliability has to be first
Peetza and Mike have it right. A lucky fool who never practices can make a lucky shot wih a gun that works, but no matter how good you are, when your gun doesn't fire you may as well be holding a rock. Except you're even worse off, because you thought you were holding a gun, your defense plan included having a gun, but you got a rock and your rock won't fire. Now what? Hope there's still time to run away. Nope, the gun has to be reliable first and foremost.
And that includes the ammo you feed it. Don't practice exclusively with FMJ (I know, it's cheaper) and then load with HP for carry. Some guns jam routinely on certain HP ammo. Lip on the projectile is too sharp to be forced up the ramp or something. Could turn your hi-capacity shooter into a single shot rock. Hope there's only 1 BG and your first shot was perfect.
Peetza and Mike have it right. A lucky fool who never practices can make a lucky shot wih a gun that works, but no matter how good you are, when your gun doesn't fire you may as well be holding a rock. Except you're even worse off, because you thought you were holding a gun, your defense plan included having a gun, but you got a rock and your rock won't fire. Now what? Hope there's still time to run away. Nope, the gun has to be reliable first and foremost.
And that includes the ammo you feed it. Don't practice exclusively with FMJ (I know, it's cheaper) and then load with HP for carry. Some guns jam routinely on certain HP ammo. Lip on the projectile is too sharp to be forced up the ramp or something. Could turn your hi-capacity shooter into a single shot rock. Hope there's only 1 BG and your first shot was perfect.
I'm surprised so many of you say 100 % reliability is the most important criteria, yet you carry auto pistols. An auto, by its very nature, might function perfectly for 1000 rounds, but might malfunction on the 1001st without any discernible reason. We've all had it happen. I do have some autos that have never malfunctioned, but that doesn't mean they won't someday. On the other hand, a revolver, if in good mechanical shape, should never malfunction unless the ammo is defective. So if reliability is the most important criteria, why don't you carry revolvers?
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I never said "100%". Nothing is EVER 100% reliable forever. I said reliability is the most important factor. I must have every reason to believe that my gun will go bang when I pull the trigger. Any given gun may fail on the next round or the one after that, auto or revolver, but it can not give me a reason to believe that it's going to fail on the next round.
Revolvers can have metallurgy issues that cause them to go "Kaboom" instead of "Bang". They have parts that can wear out and break. Nothing is perfect forever, not even "Glock Perfection" is infallible.
People who carry semi-autos weigh the probability of their gun malfunctioning against the probability that they'll need the higher capacity and faster reload. They make a conscience decision, based on their threat likelihood, that the latter outweighs the former. This is why most cops carry semi-autos. Most cops also carry a backup gun of one form or another to help mitigate the likelihood of a malfunction.
Revolvers are inherently more reliable than semi-autos but revolvers aren't completely infallable. They're just less likely than a semi-auto to fail.
I carry a .357 j-frame in my pocket as my everywhere all of the time gun. It doesn't mean that I don't also own and sometimes carry semi-autos as primaries. I'm also not a cop nor do I consider my threat level high enough to warrant carrying a high capacity handgun with me all of the time. The places I have to go daily require the stealthiness of the pocket carried j-frame. It's inherent close-in reliability is also a plus for me.
I don't understand the arguments against reliability being the most important feature of a concealed handgun. Handguns are a compromise, yes, but a compromise towards size and availability in comparison to a long gun. Reliability and accessibility are the main reasons you have the handgun to begin with. Everything else is gravy.
You didn't, but others did...
Exactly...but my point is that since revolvers are inherently more reliable, it surprises me that those who put reliability at the top of the list would carry an auto rather than a revolver. My experience indicates that you can get closer to "100% reliability" or "absolute reliability" with a revolver than you can with an auto. In 20+ years of shooting, I don't recollect ever having a revolver fail to fire, but I can't count the number of times that I've had an auto malfunction.
Human and Mechanical factors reduce 100% reliability. Clearing a Stove Pipe, fail to fire or a fail to eject in the dark is essential. React and adapt!!!
1911's work for me concealed (Sometimes), as well a J frame (Sometimes). There have been moments where I wish I was carrying a derringer my hat.
It all depends.
The only absolutes I know of: Sunrise, Sun Set and Change of Tide.
1911's work for me concealed (Sometimes), as well a J frame (Sometimes). There have been moments where I wish I was carrying a derringer my hat.
It all depends.
The only absolutes I know of: Sunrise, Sun Set and Change of Tide.
100% reliability of revolvers?
Sorry, at least for me, this is a myth.
I've known a person who used a pocket holster for a snubbie, who ran into issues with pocket lint binding up the cylinder, momentarily.
Had a Ruger SBH .44mag jam on me; turned out the factory ammo I'd bought was slightly over normal length. It seemed to fit the cylinder, but not quite.
Had an issue once with an SP101 and a factory cartridge, too; not sure what the case did upon firing, it looked fairly normal, but it projected just enough rearward to keep the cylinder from rotating. I was able to open the cylinder and eject the cartridges, and get the revolver back into operation readily enough, however...
... I could have cleared a stovepipe or slapped home a FTRB in equal or less time.
Keep a good quality auto well cleaned and lubed, and it should be as reliable as a revolver.
Note 1: If you do pocket carry, holster or no (and I recommend holsters for a few reasons), do not carry anything else in that pocket. And, based on my friend's experience, check your pockets for dryer lint...
Note 2: If you carry a lockback knife in your pocket, see Note 1. I wasn't thinking, and managed to jam up my CRKT M16-A4T really well one day, with a dime that slid into the handle and held the blade closed, under lateral tension...
Sorry, at least for me, this is a myth.
I've known a person who used a pocket holster for a snubbie, who ran into issues with pocket lint binding up the cylinder, momentarily.
Had a Ruger SBH .44mag jam on me; turned out the factory ammo I'd bought was slightly over normal length. It seemed to fit the cylinder, but not quite.
Had an issue once with an SP101 and a factory cartridge, too; not sure what the case did upon firing, it looked fairly normal, but it projected just enough rearward to keep the cylinder from rotating. I was able to open the cylinder and eject the cartridges, and get the revolver back into operation readily enough, however...
... I could have cleared a stovepipe or slapped home a FTRB in equal or less time.
Keep a good quality auto well cleaned and lubed, and it should be as reliable as a revolver.
Note 1: If you do pocket carry, holster or no (and I recommend holsters for a few reasons), do not carry anything else in that pocket. And, based on my friend's experience, check your pockets for dryer lint...
Note 2: If you carry a lockback knife in your pocket, see Note 1. I wasn't thinking, and managed to jam up my CRKT M16-A4T really well one day, with a dime that slid into the handle and held the blade closed, under lateral tension...
#18indycolts
Moderator
how about the bad ace look of it.
Lefteye said:
You are right, and if asked about purchasing a handgun, i would say reliability. But if i were to lay out 6 or 7 or however many handguns i already have, and i was picking one to carry for say...Tuesday or Friday...they all fit that criteria, as well as the ergo criteria. Those are the only kind of handguns i own. Just kind of how i took the OP's question this morn...decisions, decisions.
Or they got sold.
You are right, and if asked about purchasing a handgun, i would say reliability. But if i were to lay out 6 or 7 or however many handguns i already have, and i was picking one to carry for say...Tuesday or Friday...they all fit that criteria, as well as the ergo criteria. Those are the only kind of handguns i own. Just kind of how i took the OP's question this morn...decisions, decisions.
Or they got sold.
My Taurus 905 9mm snub-nose is my go everywhere gun.
Weight?
23 oz, which is just a little heavy for a snubbie, but the weight makes for painless shooting. And follow-up shots are easier and quicker.
Compact size?
Snub-nose revolver....easily fits in my front pocket or jacker pocket.
Reliability?
100% so far. Yes, some will decry Taurus, but it has never let me down as of yet.
Firepower? Caliber or round number?
5-shots of 9mm. Enough for the typical self-defense senario.
Of course this is a compromise of capacity and caliber for a compact and easily controllable revolver.
Accuracy?
Suprisingly accurate, especially at up close and personal self-defense range.
And rather accurate when shot SA, even at longer distances.
Ammo characteristic?
9mm is a great caliber from a short barrel....not too weak but still easily controllable.
And follow-up shots are very easy.
Not to mention that 9mm is a very common round.
Instinctive pointing?
Well, it's a snubby, so it's practically a "belly gun".
Ergonomic shape?
It feels surprisingly comfortable in my hands.