No One has mentioned the .260 yet. It is a .308 necked down to .264. It is available in the Remington Model 7. Although I think the .260 has a better spectrum of bullets available I would pick the .243 for a teenager. The Model 7 (Remington) is available in a youth model in .243. Note I too started with a 1917 Enfield in 30-06 but I wouldn't recommend that.
"Most fun", flattest shooting deer rifle for a teenager
- Thread starter Dogger
- Start date
I'd go
.243 for teenager or
.308 (handloaded on the light side, if worried about recoil)
for you I'd go .30-06' or .308
.257 rbts, 7mm mauser, .260, 7mm-08, are all good successfull cartridges. However, their commanality is not as good as the old hill billy howitzer (.30-06')
Once Klinton and cronies take more steps to limit gun ownership/ ammunition sales etc. Ammo commonality will be a huge deal.
my .02
.243 for teenager or
.308 (handloaded on the light side, if worried about recoil)
for you I'd go .30-06' or .308
.257 rbts, 7mm mauser, .260, 7mm-08, are all good successfull cartridges. However, their commanality is not as good as the old hill billy howitzer (.30-06')
Once Klinton and cronies take more steps to limit gun ownership/ ammunition sales etc. Ammo commonality will be a huge deal.
my .02
I'm a fan of the 7mm Mauser. A polished out mauser action awaits a 21" 7mm barrel on my bench as I write this...
Remington introduced the 7-08 which is ballistically identical but somewhat inferior to the 7x57 due to the fact it can't handle the heavy bullet. The 7x57 handloads can come close enough to a 7mm Mag to not make a significant difference for deer hunting. This old cartridge invokes safari fantasies, Holland & Holland style bolt guns, express sights, fine walnut, case hardened steel, and leather. It will also kill anything in the lower 48. Factory loaded Partition ammo is available and this is what I'd recommend shooting at game.
Remington also introduced the .260 Remington which is basically 6.5x55 Swede performance in a new package.
Although I've been yearning for a .243 Sako Classic, I probably wouldn't handicap a new hunter with a .243- shot placement is critical with this little bullet- and the new hunter needs a margin for error...
[This message has been edited by DeBee (edited October 20, 1999).]
Remington introduced the 7-08 which is ballistically identical but somewhat inferior to the 7x57 due to the fact it can't handle the heavy bullet. The 7x57 handloads can come close enough to a 7mm Mag to not make a significant difference for deer hunting. This old cartridge invokes safari fantasies, Holland & Holland style bolt guns, express sights, fine walnut, case hardened steel, and leather. It will also kill anything in the lower 48. Factory loaded Partition ammo is available and this is what I'd recommend shooting at game.
Remington also introduced the .260 Remington which is basically 6.5x55 Swede performance in a new package.
Although I've been yearning for a .243 Sako Classic, I probably wouldn't handicap a new hunter with a .243- shot placement is critical with this little bullet- and the new hunter needs a margin for error...
[This message has been edited by DeBee (edited October 20, 1999).]
Thanks for the many responses. I am leaning heavily towards the 7x57mm Mauser. I don't reload, so it will be with factory loads as a start. A topic of interest I have picked up recently is shot placement and caliber/load to minimize damaged meat. Apparently, "blood shot" meat is ruined meat? This means no shoulder shots? I have successfully hunted two deer in the past (first with a 12 guage slug at 20 paces and second with a bow at 6 paces. The first took out both lungs and heart. The second took out one lung and liver. Neither resulted in much damage to meat). I suppose that optimum shot placement with the 7x57 would be a broadside shot just behind the shoulder? What 7x57 load do you recommend to save meat while killing cleanly? Again, this would be a factory round for starters. I also have a 30-30 Marlin that I zeroed recently. It is vey accurate with the Remington 170 grain core-lokt round. This is not "too much" centerfire for an eastern whitetail is it?
I've never hear ANYONE say a 30-30 was too much gun for a white tail. In fact, More game has fallen to the 30-30 than any other cartridge, with 30-06 slowly cathing up. In fact a good lever action 303-30 is the gun MOST of us started with , however its doesn't really fit you "flat shooting" criteria.
The "package gun" I described is usually a savage model 110c, available at wal-mart or k-mart. You rarely will spend more than $400 on a rifle, scope, mount, rings, and triggerlock.
You know Rigby I've never seriously fired "iron sites" at those ranges on a paper target. I've shot bowling pins, tin cans, milk jugs, etc etc at that range with open sights. Just out of curiousity, do you use military "peep" sights, buckhorn sights or?? I've always preferred "buckhorn" sights because you can "look over" the front sight for a snap shot and I seem to be able to "hold" better than with military apeture sights.
10 rounds at 100 yards, slow fire at a 25 yard pistol target huh? (Sounds like a job for a marlin lever gun.) Lets set our "comparison date" for Dec. 1 (third season opens nov 1 and the ranges are Jam packed, but after season it will open up again) ... maybe we can get someone to host jpegs of our targets and post them dec 1 in the "competitive shooting" forum??
sound like a good idea guys??
Dr.Rob
The "package gun" I described is usually a savage model 110c, available at wal-mart or k-mart. You rarely will spend more than $400 on a rifle, scope, mount, rings, and triggerlock.
You know Rigby I've never seriously fired "iron sites" at those ranges on a paper target. I've shot bowling pins, tin cans, milk jugs, etc etc at that range with open sights. Just out of curiousity, do you use military "peep" sights, buckhorn sights or?? I've always preferred "buckhorn" sights because you can "look over" the front sight for a snap shot and I seem to be able to "hold" better than with military apeture sights.
10 rounds at 100 yards, slow fire at a 25 yard pistol target huh? (Sounds like a job for a marlin lever gun.) Lets set our "comparison date" for Dec. 1 (third season opens nov 1 and the ranges are Jam packed, but after season it will open up again) ... maybe we can get someone to host jpegs of our targets and post them dec 1 in the "competitive shooting" forum??
sound like a good idea guys??
Dr.Rob
Well, went shopping around this weekend and I have it narrowed down to a Browning A-Bolt II in .260 Remington or 7mm-08, or a Remington ADL in .270, or a Remington Model 7 in .243 or .308, or a Winchester 30-30. Seems to me the Model 7 in .308 would be too much recoil for a 150 pound 5 foot 10 inch lanky teenager. I already have a Marlin 30-30, so I am thinking the A-Bolt II might be in the lead. I sure do like that box magazine and the short throw of the bolt.
Bill Hebert
New member
My son inherited his granddad's Browning in 270 caliber. Last year he hunted with a Mini-14 and using Remington soft points bagged a seven pointer at 20 yards open sights. Saturday, we went on a youth hunt and he HAD to use the 270. I zeroed it at 100 yards using Remington 130 gr. core lokts at the range a week ago. He bagged a 115# doe at 150 yards with a front-on shot. He's a small-framed youth and he loves the 270. Shot placement was just under the neck and the deer dropped on the spot. My nephew shot a doe with a 6mm and we had to discard both fore quarters since the bullet shredded them both. The deer managed to drag itself 30 yards into the brush from the spot it was hit. There were about six/seven bullet fragments throughout the meat. The 270 went through both lungs, the diaphram and lodged just under the skin intact and perfectly mushroomed. The third hunter used a 270 in 150gr and the bullets fragmented causing much meat damage. Like previous posts advise, tune the bullets to the hunter and typical distance to the game. The remington bolt action in 270 cal, synthetic stock, a Leupold Vari-X or fixed scope, and a trigger job (approx $60) would be an awsome rifle for any youth (or dad for that matter.) Good luck....
Dogger--
Get the .270 in the 700 ADL, and never look back! Same accuracy as the BDL, less expensive rifle. .270 well fits your criteria for flat shooting, and can take game up through elk (w/proper bullet selection!). Great rifle, great cartridge. (no, I don't have either one). Be sure and factor in good glass, good mounts and rings, and any slight "tuning."
Get the .270 in the 700 ADL, and never look back! Same accuracy as the BDL, less expensive rifle. .270 well fits your criteria for flat shooting, and can take game up through elk (w/proper bullet selection!). Great rifle, great cartridge. (no, I don't have either one). Be sure and factor in good glass, good mounts and rings, and any slight "tuning."
thanks for the many and varied posts. Man, I am no closer to making a decision. last night on the drive home I almost had myself convinced that a 30-06 rifle would not be too much recoil for a teenager, provided I kept to a lighter bullet, say 150 grains or so. Then I thought, what the heck, what is a little recoil? The kids will think it is great with all the boom and noise -- just buy one of those strap on shoulder pads and make sure the rifle is a 7.5 pounder and add the weight of a scope and ensure you have a rubber butt pad and you will be fine. Besides, the 30-06 is THE American cartridge! Yikes, bring me back to sanity folks! I am ready to go find a used 30-06 and head to the range with my two teenage sons...
Well dogger,
there IS something to be said for the venerable 30-06. you can buy ammo anywhere, you can handload it to purr like a kitten or roar like a lion. Get a thick recoil pad and shoot 150 gr. standard velocity loads (red box federal or winchester or green box remmington) and your teen should not have a problem. I started on a 30-30 at 14 and by 17 was carrying a 30-06 (good old savage model 110B). Avoid the "leightweight" rifles as they WILL kick more, better to buy a full sized rifle and cut the stock to fit the shooter, as oppsed to giving a novice a six pound rifle that kicks twice as hard as one that wieghs eight pounds.
Savage 110 series are good rifles, as are Remmington 700's. But should shoot under 1 moa out of the box new. You want to see how well the gun shoots, buy federal premium ammunition (Possibly the most accurate "out of the box" ammo available).
A good tasco 3x9 scope and STEEL rings and mounts should make an EXCELLENT game rifle for ANY critter in the lower 48, and you can still buy ammo at your local wal-mart, gas-n-sip, etc.
hope it helps,
Dr.Rob
there IS something to be said for the venerable 30-06. you can buy ammo anywhere, you can handload it to purr like a kitten or roar like a lion. Get a thick recoil pad and shoot 150 gr. standard velocity loads (red box federal or winchester or green box remmington) and your teen should not have a problem. I started on a 30-30 at 14 and by 17 was carrying a 30-06 (good old savage model 110B). Avoid the "leightweight" rifles as they WILL kick more, better to buy a full sized rifle and cut the stock to fit the shooter, as oppsed to giving a novice a six pound rifle that kicks twice as hard as one that wieghs eight pounds.
Savage 110 series are good rifles, as are Remmington 700's. But should shoot under 1 moa out of the box new. You want to see how well the gun shoots, buy federal premium ammunition (Possibly the most accurate "out of the box" ammo available).
A good tasco 3x9 scope and STEEL rings and mounts should make an EXCELLENT game rifle for ANY critter in the lower 48, and you can still buy ammo at your local wal-mart, gas-n-sip, etc.
hope it helps,
Dr.Rob
I think that a 30-06 would not be too big for a teen. Most kids that I grew up with used either a .243, .270, or 30-06. Almost none of them weighed even close to a buck-fifty. I personally learned how to shoot a centerfire with my dad's 7mm Rem Mag, and I didn't weigh over 150 until after I was in college. In fact, I've only used two centerfires in my life for hunting: that 7mm Rem Mag and a .243 I bought a year or two ago. I'm not saying that I recommend the 7mm Rem Mag for your son, but I believe that he would be able to handle any of the very common non-magnum rounds, e.g. .243, .260, 7mm-08, .270, 30-06. Personally, I would start out with the .243 so that he can build up skill and accuracy with a very easy shooting and effective gun, and then move up the ladder as his confidence and experience grows.
If sectional density (more is better) is desirable in a hunting load for medium sized game, then the Swedish 6.5x55 should be awesome. Remington offers a 140 grain factory load. I calculate the SD for that load in this chambering to be .289. No wonder so many people like the 6.5! I guess?? Shucks, I am new to this!
Gentlemen, thanks for all the responses above. I purchased a Swedish Mauser, M38 carbine, in good condition along with two boxes of Federal 139 grain 6.5x55 silver box ammo. I look forward to the range trip in preparation for deer season. Shucks, I just may give my 30-30 to my 15 year old and I will hunt with the Swede! 
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
From my viewpoint, now that you have your basic setup, let him shoot 30 rounds, saving five for the hunt and five as spares.
If you run across "el cheapo" ammo, grab some, for more practice. You can let him continue to practice basic skills with the .22, and then five or so rounds of the 6.5 as "dessert".
You might consider reading up on the proper positions for standing, kneeling and sitting; shooting off a bench rest doesn't totally translate to the field. A sling is a big help, if used properly.
And never forget that it's suposed to be fun as well as training.
Best regards, Art
If you run across "el cheapo" ammo, grab some, for more practice. You can let him continue to practice basic skills with the .22, and then five or so rounds of the 6.5 as "dessert".
You might consider reading up on the proper positions for standing, kneeling and sitting; shooting off a bench rest doesn't totally translate to the field. A sling is a big help, if used properly.
And never forget that it's suposed to be fun as well as training.
Best regards, Art
Unkel Gilbey
New member
Most fun?
I don't know about you fellah's, but to me as a 12 year old first time deer hunter - a M94 Winchester 30-30 lever action was about as fun as it gets.
Flat shooting? Nope, but then again, do you want that fledgling shooter attempting a shot at a deer at any range over 150 yards?
In fact, you'd be hard pressed to get a shot at over 75 yards where I grew up, so the 30-30 worked fine-lasted a long time!
You mentioned something about a certain load being humane... Let me ask you, what could be more inhumane then a poorly hit animal that you've lost the blood trail on?
I believe that even if the shooter is a NRA High Master, if he doesn't have the experience to place his shot's accurately and kill cleanly, then he shouldn't attempt shots at ranges longer than 100 yards. Give or take a few! Closer ranges allow better bullet placement, the bullet isn't effected as much by wind/the elements, and the projectile has more 'mustard' at closer ranges. All these factors add up to a better chance at a clean kill, and a big shot in the arm in the confidence department.
So therefore, have him cut his teeth with a Win M95, or a Marlin, or a Savage M99 in 30-30 and you'll be doing him a service.
Unkel Gilbey
I don't know about you fellah's, but to me as a 12 year old first time deer hunter - a M94 Winchester 30-30 lever action was about as fun as it gets.
Flat shooting? Nope, but then again, do you want that fledgling shooter attempting a shot at a deer at any range over 150 yards?
In fact, you'd be hard pressed to get a shot at over 75 yards where I grew up, so the 30-30 worked fine-lasted a long time!
You mentioned something about a certain load being humane... Let me ask you, what could be more inhumane then a poorly hit animal that you've lost the blood trail on?
I believe that even if the shooter is a NRA High Master, if he doesn't have the experience to place his shot's accurately and kill cleanly, then he shouldn't attempt shots at ranges longer than 100 yards. Give or take a few! Closer ranges allow better bullet placement, the bullet isn't effected as much by wind/the elements, and the projectile has more 'mustard' at closer ranges. All these factors add up to a better chance at a clean kill, and a big shot in the arm in the confidence department.
So therefore, have him cut his teeth with a Win M95, or a Marlin, or a Savage M99 in 30-30 and you'll be doing him a service.
Unkel Gilbey
i understand what you are going through.i went through several bolt action designs and calibers before finding my son somthing he can really work with.
i decided to buy him a tc contender in 22 lr and mounted a scout scope on it to negate the constant probem with kids and eye relief.
hell its hard enough to explain to an adult much less a 10 year old.
second since i realized his limitaions of shooting ability.i decided that the 300 yard shoots were going to be out of the question.
i got him a second barrel for his contender a 300 whisper.its essentially the 221 fireball necked up to .308 cal bullets.corbon makes factory ammo plus i reload for him also.he has more fun helping me make the loads than he does shooting .there is vertually no recoil to this gun.it shoots very flat up to 250 yards dropping only about 6 inches at 250 yards with the 125 gr pills.
i set this gun up with execatly the same scope so he can practice all day long with the 22lr and work up to the .30 cal.he also has a .45 cal muzzleloder barrel for it for black powder season..
i think it is important not to get a gun that recoils to much and a gun that is overly heavy for a young lad.(even if he is 6ft and 180 lbs.)marksmanship is the key to building a soilid ground and if you introduce him to a flinch to early he will spend years shaking it off.
also a contender in 7x30 waters or 6mm would not be a bad choice.the 3030 and .35 are a real beast so stay away from them.
i decided to buy him a tc contender in 22 lr and mounted a scout scope on it to negate the constant probem with kids and eye relief.
hell its hard enough to explain to an adult much less a 10 year old.
second since i realized his limitaions of shooting ability.i decided that the 300 yard shoots were going to be out of the question.
i got him a second barrel for his contender a 300 whisper.its essentially the 221 fireball necked up to .308 cal bullets.corbon makes factory ammo plus i reload for him also.he has more fun helping me make the loads than he does shooting .there is vertually no recoil to this gun.it shoots very flat up to 250 yards dropping only about 6 inches at 250 yards with the 125 gr pills.
i set this gun up with execatly the same scope so he can practice all day long with the 22lr and work up to the .30 cal.he also has a .45 cal muzzleloder barrel for it for black powder season..
i think it is important not to get a gun that recoils to much and a gun that is overly heavy for a young lad.(even if he is 6ft and 180 lbs.)marksmanship is the key to building a soilid ground and if you introduce him to a flinch to early he will spend years shaking it off.
also a contender in 7x30 waters or 6mm would not be a bad choice.the 3030 and .35 are a real beast so stay away from them.
If you're trying to toughen the lad up a bit, might I suggest a 7.62x54R M44 Mosin Nagant. This is a great choice, especially if your son plays football. You'll already have all of the necessary equipment needed for shooting. Such as, helmet with faceguard, mouthpiece, and don't forget the shoulder pads.
Let me put my vote in for the .270! you can load it from 90 grain running at over 3000FPS up to over 150 grain. I personally use 140s and find the recoil very manageable. Mine is a Remington 700 ADL. I can easily do sub 1/2 inch at 100 yards with is. Which is more that enough for hunting. ANd the .270 will take pretty much any game in the lower 48 states and probably even some larger game. For a real kick though you can look a little and find 75 frain bullets for reloading. I forget the exact specs but the velocity is insane for this load.