"Most fun", flattest shooting deer rifle for a teenager

D

Dogger

New member
Took my 14 year old son to the rifle range with a scoped bolt action .22. 650 rounds later, he is hooked on shooting. :) I want to get him a deer rifle, but don't know which caliber to choose. I have heard that a .243 is a great deer rifle and also easy on recoil. I want to get him a rifle that will cleanly and ethically kill an eastern white tail (even if he sees the BIG ONE), yet is easy on recoil and fun to shoot at the range. I have thought of a .243, or a 25-06, the .260, and the 7mm-08. Trouble is, I have never fired any of these cartridges. What others should I consider? What do you folks think? Thanks.
 
Hi, and congrats for your young recruit!

The .243 is an awesome cartridge. It is one of the most effective calibers on game, not only here at home, but also in the rest of the World. In England, it is the most used against Stag, and in Africa, it has been voted as the most useful cartridge from small game all the way to medium plains game. With the 100gr bullet, it will shoot very flat (about 3,000 f/s) while providing little recoil for the young shooter. It is an inherently accurate cartridge with good sectional density, ready ammo availability and an awesome selection of excellent rifles (the Ruger #1 is my personal favorite).

Another cartridge worth mentioning is the 7mm mauser. It will outperform the .243 by a good margin on medium-sized game, with a very small additional price in recoil. The main advantage of 7mm is versatility. Bullet selection ranges from about 100gr (excellent for varmints) to the 175-grainer made famous by Elephant hunter WDM "Karamojo" Bell at the turn of the century. It is light in report, extremely efficient in weight/diameter ratio, cheap to buy (you can easily find large batches of surplus ammo for cheap practice) and a joy to shoot.

7mm-08 is a very similar cartridge, but, due to the shape of the case it is not as efficient with heavier bullets, which are necessary against larger North American animals. So, between the 2, I would pick the 7 Mauser.

The same arguments made in favor of the 7mm Mauser can be made about another mainstay of the mauser lineup, the 1896-vintage 6.5x55, or 6.5 Swedish. Plus, you have the possibility of picking up one of the best-engineered military bolt-actions ever made, the Swedish Mauser (for less than $200). Should you opt for a new factory rifle, the Ruger m77 comes in that most versatile chambering.

All of theese cartridges will shoot very flat up to 300 yds (a normal hunting range. There are small variations on the market, but these are the real McCoys. Among the 3, I would choose the 7mm, because of the unbelievable versatility of the cartridge, its proven record, the nice rifles chambered for it, the ease of reloading, the ammo availability, the low report and recoil and its capability to kill quickly and humanely with little or no meat damage.

I hope it helps!!!!!

Good lock to you and your son.
 
416Rigby, thanks! We have a gun shop a half hour away that sells a lot of bolt action surplus military rifles. By 7mm Mauser you mean the 7x57 cartridge? I will look for rifles in that caliber. One clarification, please: You state that the 100 grain bullet in a 7mm Mauser is great for varmints, yet the 100 grain bullet in the .243 would be excellent for deer (stag)? I suppose the 100 grainer in either chambering is ethical for white tails? Thanks
 
Hi, Dogger, let me answer your questions.

Yes, the 7mm Mauser IS the 7x57.

As to the "100grain question", here is the big difference. When you hunt, you have to consider primarily sectional density (SD), i.e. the weight/diameter ratio. This gives you a rough estimate of the ability of the bullet to penetrate sufficiantly to reach the vitals.

The weight/diameter of a 100gr. .243 is much better than the weight/diameter of a 100gr .284.

Here's the formula for the .243:

2
[100(gr) : 7,000] : [.243] = .242

Here is the same for the .284 (7mm):

2
[100(gr) : 7,000 : [.284] = .177 (much smaller than .242)

Thus, 100gr for a .243 are comparable to 140gr for a 7mm (.284) bullet. This way, a 175gr .284 bullet will have even more SD than the other two, which is why Bell used it successfully against elephant more than 1,000 times.

So, generally speaking, the more Sectional Density, the more penetration (which is what you want on medium-big game), the more humane kills on these animals.

While the 100gr .243 will have sufficient SD to penetrate a deer's vitals, the same weight in a .284 (7mm) won't. Think of a short and stubby bullet versus a long, pencil-like one. That's why handgun cartridges (whose bullets are short and stubby) are only marginally adequate for deer-sized game. And that's why arrows from a bow, long and pencil-like, can kill even in spite of the moderate velocity.

Low SD bullets are designed to expand rapidly upon impact, that's why they are good for varmints (small, rodent-sized animals where you don't care about meat damage).

High SD bullets are also, all other things being equal, more resistant to deflection by twigs and other obstacles and are more areodynamic, carrying their velocity and energy a longer distance.

In general, on "typical" rifle bullets, you don't want much less than a .240 SD.

I hope it hepls!
 
I had just turned 16 when I got my first .30-'06. Not that I was skinny, but I could turn sideways, stick out my tongue, and imitate a zipper.

That old steel-butt-plate Enfield danged near beat me to death! I probably weighed all of 130 pounds. But I persevered. Some folks are less recoil-sensitive than others.

Really, the 7x57 Mauser is a helluva good cartridge. It's even better when you or the young'n handloads. There're a bunch of good .284 bullets out there.

I have a pet Sako .243, 19" barrel, which weighs 7 lbs fully dressed. I've taken maybe 20 whitetails with it, few weighing more than around 120-130, field-dressed. Mostly one-shot kills, and basically all with the little Sierra 85-grain HPBT. I get 1/2" groups, regularly...

So I'd say either gun would work well...It sorta depends on his build and weight; there ain't no point in hammering his shoulder. Slight of frame, I'd go the .243; husky and growing, the 7mm...

Oh, one other thing. If you haven't bought hear-guards, do so. I wish they'd had them when I was younger. Wish the Army had had them, as well. Huh? What'd you say?

FWIW, Art
 
I agree with the .243, good power for deer and very flat shooting. I have always been partial to the Remington Model Seven Carbine in .223 or .243. The Ruger Mini-30 in 7.62x39 has always had it's followers in the deer hunting community. It's based on the proven Mini-14 action (which is actually based on the Garand and M-14, which speak for themselves!) which allows quick follow-up shots.
 
Thanks for the great feedback. I am going shopping this weekend. Will let you know how it goes. I figure a .243 for the teenager and a 7x57 for me... :)
 
I would hate to have to load a truck with all of the deer I killed with a .257 Roberts between the first one when I was 11 and now (I'm 28.). With 100grain bullets, you can get around 3000 fps, which is much hotter than the 2750 that I had the morning I popped a 190 lb buck at 300 yards. With 120g bullets, it's easy to get around 2800 fps, which is mighty flat-shooting, and will be enough for the biggest deer, and there are some who take their elk with this load.

The .257 Rbts kicks less than a 20 ga. 1100 with light dove loads, and is perfectly adequate for medium-game with minimum hold-over out to 300 yards (drop is 7.5" at 300, given 3" high at 100.).



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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Matt
 
Savage Savage Savage.

New short actions available in 243 and 308.

Personally, I'd recommend a 308 0r 270 over a 243, because you can load them for larger game too. The 7x57 is a good choice if you want an inexpensive rifle, but don't expect match grade accuracy out of a "surplus" rifle. However CZ surplus rifles are superior in my opinion to other mauser copies.

Savage bolt rifles are often sold as "package guns" with scope and mounts at retailers like walmart at discount prices. It's the right time of year for deer rifles to be on sale so keep your eyes open.

I've owned 2 savages in 30-06 a 70's vintage 110b and a new 116fsack. Both are shooting sub moa at 100 yards.

good luck and welcome to the sport,

Dr.Rob
 
Marlin lever in .44 Mag is what I bought my son when he is old enough. Not much kick and will down any deer within range (100-125 yds). Hope it helps..Steve
 
God call, long path!

The .257 Roberst, dubbed by someone "the most useful cartridge" (I think he was referring to North America) is an incredible little number. With the 120-gr bullet, I wouldn't hesitate taking it against ANY hoofed animal in NA (except for perhaps bison). By the way, the parent case of the .257 is the 7x57!

Dr. Bob, as much as I am reticent to disagree with a DR (I am only an MBA), you can get brand-new, out-of-the-box hunting rifles in 7x57 made here in the good ole USofA! An example? The wonderful little Ruger N.1, which comes both in the light sporter version and in the elegant "international", Mannlicher-stocked fashion.
Ruger also offers their M77 bolt rifle in that chambering for a retail setback of a little over $400. And should you opt for a time-honored surplus and you are picky about accuracy, Mauserwerke made an excellent model in 7X57 for the Spanish Gov't, which can be picked up at a show in "mint" condition for a couple hundreds. I defy anyone to a 100-yrd postal match using (them) ANY out-of the box US made sporting rifle versus (me) this Mauser!

Lastly, there are a host of excellent European rifles in this caliber. Depending on how much you are willing to invest on the young sapling's first rifle, you can go (in descending order) from a Steyr-Mannlicher to a Euromark with everything in between (a copy of the Guns and Ammo 2,000 edition buyer's guide) will tell you all you want to know).

Good call on the .44 magnum! I don't know how important "flat-shooting" is to you, but Ruger (hmmmmm.... I seem to pick that firm a lot :)) makes an awesome little bolt-action number in 44, which would help the young buck get use to the feel of the "turnbolt" while having great killing power out to 125 yds with neglegible recoil.

Let us know what you finally opted for!!!!
 
Not to sound to out of step, but 30.06 can be tamed by bullet/load selection and the proper use of a Pad/Recoil Brake and then you can use it for life, but then agin is has needing a differnet rifle later ever really stoped on of us from buying one now.

Have fun
 
I love the 6.5x55 Swede: incredibly high sectional density. There's not a thing wrong with the .243 (very pleasant to shoot, accurate, high pressure) or the 7x57 either. I've got friends who swear by the .257 Roberts, too.

They're all pretty nice. But I'd go with a Swede. If you get him a nice old surplus 94/96/38 you'll set the kid's standards of workmanship high, and he'll be able to do great things with the rifle. And what a sense of history: something that's 100 years old, groups easily under 1.5 moa, lovely craftsmanship (far better than anything modern you can buy for under $800), and great steel.

cheers,
erich
 
Postal Match eh? Is that like a DCM highpower match?

Explain the rules of that briefly.. lol I just may accept the challenge!(provided it doesn't interfere with my early november elk hunt) What is the model designation of that spanish mauser?

I'd still opt for a 308 over a 243 (which is a 308 case necked down to 24 caliber) Ballistics are similar to the 7x57 and you can buy ammo anywhere. Mil surplus, walmart, bubba's gas n sip etc. You can load all kinds of bullets from saboted 223 bullets at 4000 fps to moose dinging 220 grainers at 2500 fps. (don't try to load that in an auto loader though.)

I'd recommend a 150 - 165 gr. btsp bullet (like those made by sierra)

as we've said in other forums though.. let the lad shop with you, get him out to the range with other friends let him shoot a variety of rifles/calibers.

stay safe and have fun,

Dr.Rob
 
Hey, Dr Bob,

A postal match is a match where competitors are geographically apart (sometimes even in different nations) and use the mail (hence "postal") to compare targets. As far as the rules, it depends on what the competitors agree on. My idea was, say, a 10-round, slow-fire match at 100 yds using a standard 25-yd NRA pistol bullseye (with 2 sighters allowed on a different target). The rules, of course, would be "no scopes". And as far for the "officiality" of the match, of course, we know that we fellow shooters don't EVER cheat each-other :) :)!!!!

The designation of the Spanish Mauser is the M.93, which used a 173-gr bullet. By the way, that is the same rifle of which Teddy and our Roughriders got a taste in Cuba.

Just say the word!

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SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLVM

Constitution-RKBA=a weakened document!
 
I only hunt with two cal those being a 243 M77 and 45-70 no 1 with max charges. Two forty three is great, trajectory is much better than 308 and much more efficient, by 500 yards 243 has only lost half the energy compared to 308. If memory serves.

Look in ultimate sniper book and see differneces (trajectory) is better than 30-06, 300mag, and even flatter than 338 LAPUA I believe out to 300 or 500 yards don't remember which.
 
Many, many great posts. Thanks. I have a nice short list with which to browse this weekend. Seems no one ever has a consignment or used Ruger #1 though. Those are awesome looking rifles. Have heard great things about the .257 Roberts but have not seen a used one either. Will keep my eyes open this weekend, especially the Spanish Mauser. Saw a genleman firing a 45-70 with the over 400 grain load... a bit much for my son I think but a real hoot for an adult.
 
That seems to be the main problem with the .257 Roberts-- there's enough of a revival of the cartridge to cause a bunch of people to buy 'em up, but not enough for (A) the rifle manufacturers to start new runs of them, or (B) anyone to sell off their current one.

Ruger makes the 77 in it, I believe, and either Winchester or Remington does, too. With the Rugers, you can get the integral rings, but with the Remingtons and Winchesters you get better (and adjustable!) triggers. I suspect Savage makes a 110 in .257 Rbts, and I would buy one of their "Package Rifle" 110's in it, like Dr. Rob says, and run like a thief in the night. I shoot an old M-77 semi-varminter, and am astounded by its performance. My wife shot her first deer with it last year. She was able to observe the doe drop through the scope, the recoil was so light. (100 gr @ about 2700 [light load])
 
Hmmm... which Savage model do you recommend? They offer a bunch... I want to stay away from ported/muzzle brake options. Thanks...
 
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