Most accurate new 223 bolt under $1,000 out of the box?
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Gneiss
I have about 1000 rounds through my CZ 527 and the bolt still has to come all the way back smartly to get the cartridge to pop out of the extractor. It don't think it is going to change much over time.
My CZ 550 in .30-06 exhibits the same behavior.
I believe that it is simply the CZ bolt / extractor design and not a defect. It is just different from the Savage, Winchester and Remington 700s that I also shoot.
I have about 1000 rounds through my CZ 527 and the bolt still has to come all the way back smartly to get the cartridge to pop out of the extractor. It don't think it is going to change much over time.
My CZ 550 in .30-06 exhibits the same behavior.
I believe that it is simply the CZ bolt / extractor design and not a defect. It is just different from the Savage, Winchester and Remington 700s that I also shoot.
Every Savage I have ever owned have shot under .75" with the right ammo and if I do my part. Most people that dont like them say "they are ugly" I have never heard someone say "I dont like them because they are not accurate".
I have also heard good things about Tika and the Howa rifles but I have never shot either one.
I have also heard good things about Tika and the Howa rifles but I have never shot either one.
m&p45acp10+1
New member
Benzy the .15 MOA group was with 5 shots and my hand loads. It will do it every time I do everthing correctly. My worst of days I can pull 5 shot groups of well under 3/4 of an inch at 100 yards with the target blowing like a sail, and coffeed up on a pot and half of joe.
My rifle has only fired 2 boxes of factory ammo. 55 grain FMJT PMC Bronze. Those shot to .5 MOA 3 shot groups on 14 of 15 targets. The first 3 were to get scope adjustments correct. That was fresh out of the box, only thing that was done was the rifle was cleaned, and the scope was mounted and bore sighted.
My rifle has only fired 2 boxes of factory ammo. 55 grain FMJT PMC Bronze. Those shot to .5 MOA 3 shot groups on 14 of 15 targets. The first 3 were to get scope adjustments correct. That was fresh out of the box, only thing that was done was the rifle was cleaned, and the scope was mounted and bore sighted.
Right, 3 shots represents a rifle's true ability and has nothing to do with luck. Anything worse than the absolute best group ever shot from a rifle must be a loose nut pulling the trigger. The truth is, statistically, it takes roughly 30 shots to be a significant group size, and not 10 3 shot groups. I don't suggest everyone only shoot 30+ shot groups, but 3 consecutive shots out of a 2 MOA rifle have a fighting chance to land in a .15" group. It truly is not the measure of how the rifle will or won't shoot.
I suggest you take your .15 MOA shooter to some national BR matches and show everyone there that a factory Savage with a Barska scope is the way to competition domination.
Same comments go towards you as well. I suggest you take that rifle to competitions and show them all that they've been doing it wrong for years. Hard to believe guys spend thousands upon thousands on rifles that couldn't touch a factory Savage. And .5" groups with PMC Bronze, heck you wouldn't even need to reload. There are a few good articles out there on why 10 3-shot groups doesn't equal a single, 30 shot group. I can measure 30 1-shot groups and have a 0 MOA shooter as well, doesn't say much about what a rifle can or can't do.
I wouldn't doubt that both of you can shoot very well, or that you both have great shooting rifles. But the way the claims are made is misleading and aren't a fair representation of what a given rifle is or isn't capable of doing. I don't know what you own, and they both could be .15 MOA rifles. The problem is that accuracy, consistently, requires a lot of attention to a lot of detail, more than what Savage or any other factory built rifle is doing today. 1/2 MOA is something much more believable. The difference between a consistent 1/2 MOA rifle and a consistent .15 MOA rifle is quite a bit in all of the experience I have seen, especially as distance increases.
It's also why I enjoy shooting for score rather than for group. A 25+ shot course of fire certainly weeds out if the combo is legit or not. It's a bit harder to overestimate a rifle's performance when you have a score rather than a group size.
First off, thank you all for the posts! You all have given me a few different models to look at; some I was familiar with, and some not really so much.
I am generally an accuracy person. I can, and have many times, "played with"/modified/built firearms to wring out the accuracy. This one time I thought that it might be fun not to do that. (We shall see in the long run!)
Please keep the thoughts coming, I am still looking and considering the info!
I am generally an accuracy person. I can, and have many times, "played with"/modified/built firearms to wring out the accuracy. This one time I thought that it might be fun not to do that. (We shall see in the long run!)
Please keep the thoughts coming, I am still looking and considering the info!
We live in a truly remarkable age of accurate rifles, fantastic bullets, even very good factory ammo. Ammo has only recently increased in cost, but compared with the $12.75/box of Remington 30-06 ammo in 1959, when I got my Savage 110, today's prices are very cheap. Back then a good wage per week was under $100. My dad made $60, and I worked for 25 cents per hour at his store. I worked part-time a whole week to buy a box of ammo!
Whether a rifle shoots 1/4 minute or 1 minute, doesn't make a bit of difference to any animal that's unlucky enough to be shot by it. The shooter's accuracy is more critical than the rifle's, unless shooting prone with bipod or fortunate enough to have a benchrest setup in the field. Even a 1 minute rifle will have perhaps 90% of it's shots touching within 3/8" of the center at 100 yards (didn't do the math, but feel free to correct me). Your aiming error is much worse than that, compounded by variations in hold or rest.
That said, I want a rifle that is great-looking, balances well, and shoots my handloads under 3/4 min., but that's me. If it shot 1 1/2 min, I probably wouldn't have lost any deer I've shot because of that; maybe not even woodchucks. Still, every centerfire rifle I own has been bedded and shoots handloaded ammo almost all the time. I'd probably bed a Savage Accu-Stock or TC Icon, even before shooting them. That's my hobby and I'm sticking to it.
Whether a rifle shoots 1/4 minute or 1 minute, doesn't make a bit of difference to any animal that's unlucky enough to be shot by it. The shooter's accuracy is more critical than the rifle's, unless shooting prone with bipod or fortunate enough to have a benchrest setup in the field. Even a 1 minute rifle will have perhaps 90% of it's shots touching within 3/8" of the center at 100 yards (didn't do the math, but feel free to correct me). Your aiming error is much worse than that, compounded by variations in hold or rest.
That said, I want a rifle that is great-looking, balances well, and shoots my handloads under 3/4 min., but that's me. If it shot 1 1/2 min, I probably wouldn't have lost any deer I've shot because of that; maybe not even woodchucks. Still, every centerfire rifle I own has been bedded and shoots handloaded ammo almost all the time. I'd probably bed a Savage Accu-Stock or TC Icon, even before shooting them. That's my hobby and I'm sticking to it.
precision_shooter
New member
Tell this to all those guys with the $5,000+ rifles that got beat by Box Stock Savage rifles in the National shooting competitions for years....
http://www.savagearms.com/news/article/?id=1DoKxAoZh
Article should sum it up pretty well...
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Er, uh, it's easy enough for me to delete off-topic commentary...
603Country
New member
Yep...back to the topic. I have a fairly recent gun magazine out in my workshop where a TC, and Winchester Predator, and a Ruger Predator were tested in 204 caliber. Now if I didn't get the model names exactly right, don't fuss at me. The Ruger was the accuracy winner of that contest, and the smallest groups were quite small indeed (I think...about .375, but I'm going on memory). I don't think the Ruger price was over $1000, but I'll have to check that again in the morning. Just think...you can have a rifle that shoots great AND looks good. That's aimed...with a smile...at you sensitive Savage guys (who are indeed spending your money wisely).
big al hunter
New member
I will second the TC Icon. They are certified at the factory and labeled in 3 catagories as MOA, less than MOA, or less than 1/2 MOA. They also tell you what ammo they shot to get that accuracy. It is detailed on their website tcarms.com check it out
MOshooter65202
New member
Lots of very great centerfire rifles out on the market for under a 1000.00
I have had very good accuracy and reliability from my Remington 700's for the past 35 years now.
I don't have a bolt action in a 223,I do have a 22-250 in a heavy barrel Rem 700 that is extremely accurate and a blast to hunt or target shoot with,it definitely makes tiny holes at long distances.
Don't have many coyotes around the house???
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I have had very good accuracy and reliability from my Remington 700's for the past 35 years now.
I don't have a bolt action in a 223,I do have a 22-250 in a heavy barrel Rem 700 that is extremely accurate and a blast to hunt or target shoot with,it definitely makes tiny holes at long distances.
Don't have many coyotes around the house???
precision_shooter
New member
Ok, then try this one...
http://www.savagearms.com/news/article/?id=2K5nTzegQ
...and I quote "The competition featured some of the best talent and most expensive custom rifles from around the Country. But, once again, those expensive custom guns were no match for four skilled marksmen armed with stock Savage Model 12 rifles."
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