After reloading the three common bullet weights from a major manufacturer, and using them in a G 26, I have concluded that I am not good enough for any difference in accuracy to show. I make decent groups with all of them, but the size doesn't differ significantly. I suppose that makes me Exhibit A for JohnKSa's well-presented argument.
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Most accurate bullet weight for 9mm Glock.
- Thread starter Runs With Fire
- Start date
For over a century the standard rate of twist for a 9mm barrel has been just about 1:10". This has worked just fine in a defensive handgun since George Luger designed the 9mm.
Some have worked on changing the rate of twist for 147 gr. bullets in full auto SMG's and other guns, and for precision shooting matches, but we can let that go in this discussion... maybe.
The difference between 115 gr.s and 124 is 9 grains. A grain is one 7,000 of a pound. Not enough to make a great deal of difference by itself (other than a bit in point of impact). Other factors will be more important.
First: the shooter, their experience, preferences, and how well they can shoot.
Second: the gun. It's weight, style, purpose, trigger, etc.
Third: the ammo. What type bullet, manufacturer, lot, is it standard vel? +P or +P+? That will make a difference in the shooters ability to shoot accurately from a particular gun. More recoil and more muzzle blast effects a guns shoootability for many.
Folks who argue that 124 gr. is more accurate generally mean that they favor shooting 124 gr and shoot that more accurately usually, from a particular gun.
Note here that folks do not mention whether it's +P+ 115 grain or +P124 gr. or standard velocity fodder. They make no distinction. This means that they claim to shoot all 124 gr ammo the same regardless of bullet type (ball, JHP, hard cast lead, etc.) velocity, or manufacturer. This is very unlikely. If they prefer shooting 124 gr. for one reason or another that could account for it. It's a preference for some.
tipoc
Some have worked on changing the rate of twist for 147 gr. bullets in full auto SMG's and other guns, and for precision shooting matches, but we can let that go in this discussion... maybe.
The difference between 115 gr.s and 124 is 9 grains. A grain is one 7,000 of a pound. Not enough to make a great deal of difference by itself (other than a bit in point of impact). Other factors will be more important.
First: the shooter, their experience, preferences, and how well they can shoot.
Second: the gun. It's weight, style, purpose, trigger, etc.
Third: the ammo. What type bullet, manufacturer, lot, is it standard vel? +P or +P+? That will make a difference in the shooters ability to shoot accurately from a particular gun. More recoil and more muzzle blast effects a guns shoootability for many.
Folks who argue that 124 gr. is more accurate generally mean that they favor shooting 124 gr and shoot that more accurately usually, from a particular gun.
Note here that folks do not mention whether it's +P+ 115 grain or +P124 gr. or standard velocity fodder. They make no distinction. This means that they claim to shoot all 124 gr ammo the same regardless of bullet type (ball, JHP, hard cast lead, etc.) velocity, or manufacturer. This is very unlikely. If they prefer shooting 124 gr. for one reason or another that could account for it. It's a preference for some.
tipoc
sigarms228
New member
I find when shooting for accuracy they my Gen 2 Glock 19 consistently does best for me with 147 gr American Eagle 9MM. I have read more than a few reports of the Gen 5 Glocks being more consistent accuracy wise with a wide variety of ammo loads.
accuracy has much more to do with the quality of the ammunition, than it does bullet weight, as far as defensive pistols go.
Define quality. Price, right?
sigarms228: said:I find when shooting for accuracy they my Gen 2 Glock 19 consistently does best for me with 147 gr American Eagle 9MM. I have read more than a few reports of the Gen 5 Glocks being more consistent accuracy wise with a wide variety of ammo loads.
Fed American Eagle has worked well in all of my Glock 9mm’s, regardless of bullet weight. My 19X has the Marksman barrel like the rest of the Gen5’s, and I have to agree that it is accurate with just about every type of ammo I’ve used with it
I don't think it's exclusively about price. I've been able to find some pretty inexpensive ammo that seems to be very accurate. Fiocchi used to fall into that category, but as more people have found out about it, the price has gone up some. The old CCI Blazer aluminum cased ammo which was about as cheap as could be found at the time always shot really good groups for me.Define quality. Price, right?
UMC seems to shoot accurately in my Glocks and it's usually considered to be budget ammo.
That said, I have always considered finding low cost ammo that shoots with remarkable accuracy to be an achievement. If I am in a hurry, I have a go-to JHP loading from Federal that I use for accuracy testing. It shoots very well in just about every gun I tried it in--but it certainly isn't cheap.
I’ve several 9mm. Some pre ww2, some ww2, some made in the 60,70’s. Pdw’s, ar,s etc. so imho, I like to stay with the standard 124 gr which was the original loading of the cartridge was designed around. This way it runs, feeds all the different firearms Just fine. Some of my older guns won’t feed hollow points. Others are not made for plus p. Reliability certainly plays a factor not here to forthwith mentioned. I hole heartedly agree with the comments about different manufacturers and more importantly the loading velocity within a singl manufacturers line of ammo. Several years ag my pa sold a Walther ppk. He had asked me to takeout out and shoot it, clean it befor he delivered it. Gun ran great. Several days after he sold it, the buyer complained the gun would only shoot one at a time and would jamb or not feed a round. Dad asked me what I thought. I had him ask the guy what ammo he was using. Turned out to be Walmart’s lowest priced Winchester ammo. I had da request the guy go and buy premium ammo and try it before he returned the gun. Guy called back elated and some what chagrined.
I don't think it's exclusively about price.
I don't think it's about price either, but I wondered how Shadow9mm defined quality.
wild cat mccane
New member
What makes a hollow point more accurate?
What makes a hollow point more accurate?
Briefly--it's the greater care taken in their construction. To open reliably more attention is paid to the bullets construction for uniformity and symmetry. For a bullet to open reliably it has to open uni-formally. This is definitely true in rifle bullets and carries over to a limited extent in handgun ammo. But the distances involved in handgun ammo are so short, generally, that the difference is minimal. In IMSSU shooting solid bullets are usually used.
The other factor is that some JHP ammo is slightly longer than their ball ammo counter parts which can aid accuracy.
In target shooting, they are used for greater accuracy due to the larger meplat. Hollow point bullets are more accurate and predictable compared to pointed bullets which, despite having a higher ballistic coefficient (BC), are more sensitive to bullet harmonic characteristics and wind deflection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet
https://www.michaelbane.tv/forum/index.php?topic=3389.0
It is debated some in handguns.
tipoc
There are some theoretical arguments about why it's easier to make an accurate hollowpoint bullet, but when talking about handgun, I think it comes down to something other than theory.What makes a hollow point more accurate?
For what it's worth, I wasn't claiming that the one Federal load was accurate BECAUSE it was a JHP loading, only that I had found that particular Federal loading was very accurate (and seems to be consistently accurate across a variety of pistols) and it just happened to be a JHP loading.
Anyway, that aside, JHP bullets tend to be loaded in self-defense loadings and from what I can tell, self-defense loadings get more careful QC and maybe better quality components too. Because people are willing to pay more for self-defense rounds and because they expect essentially faultless performance.
That said, I have shot some "budget" ammo that used JHP bullets too. I haven't kept good records over the years, but I do recall that one of the best groups I have ever shot from one of my 10mm pistols was using inexpensive foreign ammo loaded with JHP bullets. I'm not claiming it was because the bullets were JHP but it's an interesting anecdote.
Some discussions of handgun hollow point bullet accuracy have pointed to hollow point bullets have less weight in the nose and more in the body than other designs, and this helps to keep the bullet stable during flight. I have no idea if that is true.
Another point of discussion is that with a jacketed hollow point it's easier to get the base of the bullet more perfectly square, which means that it will exit the barrel, and the riflings, simultaneously around the full circumference which is necessary for stable, straight flight, compared to a 'lop-sided' bullet base which would allow unsymmetrical gas escape which could produce an unbalanced force that could drive the bullet off its straight trajectory. I have no idea if that is true.
Another point of discussion is that with a jacketed hollow point it's easier to get the base of the bullet more perfectly square, which means that it will exit the barrel, and the riflings, simultaneously around the full circumference which is necessary for stable, straight flight, compared to a 'lop-sided' bullet base which would allow unsymmetrical gas escape which could produce an unbalanced force that could drive the bullet off its straight trajectory. I have no idea if that is true.
One argument is that, at least in handgun bullets, flat nose bullets are more accurate than round nose bullet. In this case, a flat nose bullet can be a hollow point or just a flat nose, including a FMJ flat nose bullet.
An example of that is discussed in the article below, which compared the accuracy of flat nose and round nose bullets from a gun in a Ransom Rest that shot 38 different factory rounds. Interestingly, the most accurate load was a 147 grain FMJ flat nose bullet.
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/1/18/38-different-9mm-loads
An example of that is discussed in the article below, which compared the accuracy of flat nose and round nose bullets from a gun in a Ransom Rest that shot 38 different factory rounds. Interestingly, the most accurate load was a 147 grain FMJ flat nose bullet.
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/1/18/38-different-9mm-loads
The original bullet for the 9mm adopted by the Germans, after some experimentation, was a 124 gr. truncated cone bullet.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/documents/Introduction-to-9mm-Luger-Cartridges.pdf
There are no other pistol cartridges that have gone through so many developments and changes as the 9mm. Or are so widely used in a variety of guns and of missions.
In general 9mm handguns show no preference for 124 gr. weight bullets just because of their weight.
tipoc
Ball: The earliest loads have FMJ truncated
cone bullets weighing 124grains. These were
replaced in Germany with 124grain FMJ bullets
with a round ogive in 1915-1916 (Figure 3)
though truncated cone bullets were used on
commercial loads in the United States into the
1930s. Later, round nose FMJ 115 grain bullets,
usually has a concave base were introduced by a
number of countries including Britain (Figure 4).
During the early stages of World War II, Germany developed two new bullets in an attempt to
conserve lead.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/documents/Introduction-to-9mm-Luger-Cartridges.pdf
There are no other pistol cartridges that have gone through so many developments and changes as the 9mm. Or are so widely used in a variety of guns and of missions.
In general 9mm handguns show no preference for 124 gr. weight bullets just because of their weight.
tipoc