Mossberg 500 or Remington 870?

For anyone that is confused on my motivation. The 870 is a great shotgun if you can get one that works. If it works properly, I have no criticism.

That being said, the new 870 express shotguns that are being sold now are pure cr*p. Consider it a kit gun or a DIY project. If you want something that a high probability of working out of the box - BUY SOMETHING ELSE.
 
I recommend Mossberg and here are the exact reasons why I do so:

There are probably more threads on this debate than any other topic... BY FAR. With many folks throwing in by simply stating the gun model they shoot, without offering much, if any, objective reasoning.

I can't resist throwing in my view (and I'll do my best to include as much objective reasoning as I can. ;) )...

Both are great guns... either is a solid choice. I've been shooting Mossberg 500 and 590 for years and they are tried, true, solid, and totally reliable. I have also just ordered an 870 Police, which I'm sure I will enjoy using for many years to come. But there are some very noteworthy differences between the Remingtons and the Mossbergs as far as controls and operation goes.

Comes down to this for me:

1) I prefer the carrier-up mode design of the Mossberg for really easy loading... no need to bother with pushing the carrier out of the way to access the tube for loading/topping off while shooting. One can get used to dealing with the carrier being in the way (870), but having the carrier out of the way (500/590) is much nicer - especially when topping off under duress.

2) I prefer the tang mounted safety of the 500/590... you can see it VERY quickly and easily, access it with either hand for left or right hand shooting, and you can operate the safety while your trigger finger is ready to shoot, without changing the position of your shooting hand! No need to use your trigger finger for anything BUT firing the gun. Seeing the safety position on the 870 is more difficult and operating it takes more hand movement.

3) I prefer the slide release lever on the 500/590... a slight shift of the middle finger releases the slide without having to change or shift the position of the hand and without moving your trigger finger from ready/fire position. With the 870, the shooting hand must be moved from firing position to reach under and over to the left side.

4) I prefer having the double extractors (on on each side of the bolt) with 500/590 vs. a single extractor on the 870. Two is probably better than one.

5) I like the standard 9-round capacity of the 20" Mossberg 590. For a defense shotgun, nine before reloading again is very nice to have.
And Mossberg has a new 500 Persuader 20“ 8-shot available as well, which has an extended magazine tube. The Mossberg 18.5” 500 Persuader is a six-shot model and feels very nimble and quick handling due to less out front length and weight. You can't extend the mag on the 18.5" 500 due to how the barrel attaches to the mag tube. Remington has hampered the ability to extend the mag tube on the 18" Express by putting dimples in the mag tube (also cheapens their cost of production on this gun.) It is possible to get around the dimples by drilling or dremeling or pounding them out, thereby increasing the capacity from five to seven rounds on the 18" Express.

6) I like the availability of full length stock & pistol grip combos on the Mossbergs. While shooting with a pistol grip involves a fair bit of compromise... it does offer a form factor which is extremely appealing for certain circumstances! And if the BATF caps down on shotgun mods (they have recently reclassified a shotgun with a pistol grip as a PISTOL - no longer a shotgun)... if you bought a factory made shotgun which came with a pistol grip originally from the factory, it could be argued that you haven't materially altered the form of the shotgun if you choose to attach different pistol grips, or birds head grip options. Legal grey area here, it appears, but something worth considering anyway.

The steel receiver of the 870 is arguably more durable than the aluminum receiver on the 500/590, BUT I've never seen nor heard of any issues, nor shortened life associated with the receiver on the 500/590 and I doubt that the average shooter would ever experience a problem with the receiver being aluminum vs. steel. This materials difference between the gun's receivers is virtually negligible when comparing the guns vs. the more significant differences in operating controls. I also like that the Mossberg's aluminum receiver makes for a slightly lighter weight gun.

Quality of manufacture... I think all Mossbergs are of similar build quality and fit and finishing. They are solid, reliable, durable and not fancy.

Remington’s Wingmaster line is of higher quality in the fit and finishing, but is MUCH MUCH more expensive than Mossberg - perhaps two to three times the price!

The Remington Police line has perhaps a lesser level of finishing and smoothness than the Wingmaster, but is of higher quality fit and finishing than the Remington Express.

The new Remington Express line really has cut corners to make the gun as inexpensive to manufacture as possible... this in an attempt to compete with the very attractively priced Mossberg, which is quite popular! I think perhaps Mossberg builds a better lower-priced shotgun than Remington does.

If you want higher grade polish & finish, be prepared to spend a lot more money and go for a Wingmaster or Police. In the lower price range, Mossberg competes quite favorably, perhaps superiorly, to the Remington Express line. Big nod to the Mossberg from me. But both are competent shotguns.

As for overall durability and lifespan... if the gun is a personally owned, home defense weapon, of an ordinary citizen, I believe it is extremely unlikely that one would encounter any noteworthy limitation in durability or longevity. We're not talking about a service issued weapon that is fired a bazillion times by hundreds of different people, day-in and day-out, under the most difficult, abusive conditions imaginable, for years and years-on-end. So, I don't really see this as being terribly important as a selection criterion for a personally owned home defense weapon.

Though my preference is for Mossberg mostly due to the location and operation of the controls and the lifter-out-of-the-way for loading, no doubt one can become accustomed to either platform and both can be considered equally reliable. I would feel very well covered having either a 500/590 or an 870 as a personal defense shotgun.
 
Last edited:
I have no experience with Mossberg, but my last two Rem shotguns have not made me happy. I do have an older 1100 that I love, but my 1187 20 gauge has a poopy finish and rusted very easily, same with a newer 870 12, plus the finish on the wood started flaking, the bolt through the butt stock broke.

I don't think Rem quality is very good anymore.
 
Used older production Remington 870 Wingmasters are often really great bargains, as are used Ithaca 37s.

In my area, you hardly ever see a used Mossberg. I think it may be because they are so inexpensive to begin with. (I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them.) A lot of people won't buy a used gun when a new one is under X amount of dollars, because you don't always get warranty coverage, etc.
 
FEG.... yes, a new Mossberg 500 Persuader combo (full stock & pistol grip) can be had for low to mid $200 on specials which come about fairly often. At that price, most people wouldn't bother buying a used gun when you can pick one up a great quality Mossberg for such a low price.
 
Getting the mossy myself in a few weeks basically because i prefer the safety postion. i have one of the newer 870 express's and cant say anything bad about it either, i must be one of the rare owners who has never had a problem with my express...i would say that you should hold each gun and see what fits you better and which controls you are more comfortable with. either gun is going to last your lifetime so you might as well be comfortable..and dont get to wrapped up in all the 870 bashing, half those guys dont even own them probably...i own one and it is a great gun that i would recommend to anybody
 
Don't let the Remington haters get too you. Both the 870 Express and 500 are budget shotguns. Both companies build the guns to sell at the lowest possible price point. Both companies let sub par guns out the door on occasion. Spend $1,500 on a Beretta if you expect perfection out of the box.

Remingtons have a problem with shells sticking in the chamber. This is usually an easy fix. Mossbergs have a problem with unfired shells dumping on the ground from the magazine. Both companies will make it right if you have a problem.

For a variety of reasons I feel the Remington is the better long term choice of the 2, but the Mossberg has proven to be good enough for what most people use a shotgun for.

As I stated im my 1st post, if you are looking at pure reliability, consider the Benelli Nova. I really think it will prove to be the best of the bunch. We may have to wait 50 years to know for sure.
 
JMR40 has made the most ridiculous statement of the entire thread. You shouldn't have to pay $1500 to get a gun that works out of the box. If a company sells a gun to the public, the gun should work. Period. If it doesn't and they know it, that is fraud. Remington knows their guns have rough chambers and other problems. They continue to sell these guns because they have contempt for their customers and basically are stealing from them.

The Remington fan boys have Stockholm Syndrome.

You should "hate" any gun you have to fix to get it running right the first time. If you buy the Remington, you can't say you were not warned.
 
And spending the $1,500 will not guarantee you a perfect gun. My point is that they all have issues. I'm not a particular brand loyalist.
 
JMR40, this is still a ridiculous premise.

When you exchange money for a product, there is an contract that implies that the product will perform as promised. If this is not the case, the manufacturer owes you a disclaimer before you give them your money.

When you buy a stapler from Walmart, you expect it to function without having to tinker with it. If it doesn't, you return it for a refund.

Remington takes advantage of their customers because they know we can't return a firearm like we can a stapler.
 
Pick a product, any product, and you will have issues. Even products with a reputation for reliability can have problems. Just ask Toyota. Remington and Mossberg will both take care of their customers.

And yes you can return the gun if it is not satisfactory. I've had new Smith and Wesson pistols shipped to my door because I bought a lemon and they replaced the gun. And I still purchased other Smith products even though I had a terrrible experience with one of their guns. Most any company will either repair or replace the gun if it is defective.

I've owned seversl 870's, several Mossbergs. Never had any issues with the Remington shotguns. I did have minor issues with the Mossberg. What am I suposed to do when simeone asks my opinion. Tell them the 870 is a POS just because you say so. That has simply not been my experience.
 
Mossberg has built a business and reputation for making good quality, reliable shotguns for a very modest price. They've mastered making good-quality, lower-priced shotguns for a very long time - it is their specialty.

Remington has built a business and reputation for making good quality, reliable shotguns for a higher price. They've got making good-quality, higher-priced shotguns down cold. But they were losing a lot of business to Mossberg due to price. So...

A while back, Remington decided to cut costs and cheapen the build quality of their 870 by coming out with the 870 Express line. Some would argue that Remington may not be as good at making a low priced shotgun as Mossberg is, because Mossberg has mastered that approach from the get go and Remington has tried to get there by cutting costs through cheapening production. I think perhaps Mossberg makes the better grade low priced shotgun and Remington is receiving some bad press because by cheapening their production quality, they are having more issues and complaints with the product.

But all that said... the best way to choose is to handle both and carefully examine what you have to do with your firing hand to operate the controls.

It's like any product... how you operate the product, the user interface itself, how you access and operate the controls, makes the biggest difference from one product to another.

With the Mossberg, you can operate the safety and the slide release without moving your firing hand or trigger finger away from shooting position AT ALL. A very ergonomic, slick set-up.

With Remington, to operate the safety or the slide release, you must move both your firing hand and your trigger finger away from the shooting position. THAT, and the fact that Mossberg's loading gate is unencumbered by the lifter being up and out of the way, are the major factors to consider in your choice.

Either gun is quite likely to work fine for a long time.
 
Last edited:
Not understating anything positive you said about the Mossberg. All true. But it is quite simple for either a right or left handed person to operate the 870, (or any other gun with the safety button behind the triggerguard) without moving your hand from the firing position. It can be done with the trigger finger inside the triggerguard ( although I don't recommend it).

For a right handed person, use the middle pad of the trigger finger to disengage the safety. Reach behind the triggerguard with the middle finger to engage. Reverse the process for left handers. You don't even have to reposition your thumb like you do on the Mossberg.

A little awkward the first time you try it, but the safety button behind the trigger guard is the fastest and easiest I've found. If you replace the safety button with an oversize one it is no contest, but the standard button works well also. A key reason why I prefer Benelli over Beretta in auto loaders

The slide release on the 870 cannot be used with the gun in the firing position, but I've yet to find a reason why I would want to do that.

I think Remington would be better off to work on building a better shotgun and let the price fall where ever it does. The basic 870 design is a good and proven design. It is also a fact that it is going to be a more expensive gun to produce. They have tried to cut so many corners to try and match the Mossbergs price that they are letting too many bad guns out.

Most of the problems are cosmetic or very minor ones that can be easily corrected. Still it hurts the reputation of the company and leads some to believe the 870 is junk.
 
You obviously haven't been around a newer express.
Click to expand...

That being said, the new 870 express shotguns that are being sold now are pure cr*p. Consider it a kit gun or a DIY project. If you want something that a high probability of working out of the box - BUY SOMETHING ELSE.
Click to expand...

Wow, what got the hate flowing? I have 870s ranging from the very earliest production to current production. Wingmasters, Police and Express guns. I have Mossbergs, Remingtons, Berettas, an FN, Winchesters and others. There is nothing functionally wrong with current 870s in any of the model lines.

DHart said it correctly:

Either gun is quite likely to work fine for a long time.
Click to expand...

OP, rather than trying to read the tea leaves cast about by a bunch of people behind a screen who you don't know, do yourself the favor of going to a gun store and seeing how they feel, then go to your local club's skeet night - if it's like my club, you'll find people happy to let you fire them a few times if you buy a box of shells. Buy the one that fits and feels good in your hands and on your shoulder.
 
There is nothing functionally wrong with current 870s in any of the model lines.
Click to expand...

Are you serious?

Why did I and many others (right here on this very site)have to smack the buttstock of our 870 expresses on the ground to get a fired shell to eject? Google it. You'll have lots of reading. :D

I have had to polish my chamber, polish my bolt, AND de-burr the receiver with a dremel just to get the thing to do what it was supposed to do from the factory.

I don't think I should have to do that to a brand new gun. Do you?
 
Why did I and many others (right here on this very site)have to smack the buttstock of our 870 expresses on the ground to get a fired shell to eject? Google it. You'll have lots of reading.

I have had to polish my chamber, polish my bolt, AND de-burr the receiver with a dremel just to get the thing to do what it was supposed to do from the factory.

I don't think I should have to do that to a brand new gun. Do you?
Click to expand...

WOW. If this is something more than an isolated incident, that definitely sucks. Is this primarily associated with the reduced amount of internal polishing/finishing that is given to the 870 Express models? I had read that the internals on the Express models were rougher (less smoothly finished) than on more expensive 870 models... is this true? If so... all the more reason to go for the more expensive 870 Police models or a Mossberg. Perhaps the 870 Express models aren't really looking like all that much of a "bargain" after all.

I will Google.
 
Last edited:
There is one more difference between the Remington and the Mossberg that is noteworthy... the ejector on the 870 is riveted in and replacing a broken or worn ejector on the 870 typically requires the work of a gunsmith and most likely a refinishing of the receiver. :mad:

With the Mossberg, a broken or worn ejector can be removed and replaced by removing a single screw... an easy job to do yourself, pronto. :)
 
Last edited:
My gunsmith had to re cut and polish the chamber in my new 870 express. He said it was too short and rough. After he did this, I have not had any problems with rounds sticking in the action and I have not had to slam the gun on the ground to eject the round.

Now, if I could just get it to eject farther than 1" to 2", that would be nice.
 
Having used both over the years in Law Enforcement(since 1984), I have nothing against the 870 police config shotguns, but have come to favor the Mossberg and If I had to rush out and buy one today it would be a 590 Special Purpose (whether 6 or 9 shot) with parkerized finish/ rifle sights.

I would go sight those sights in for 50yds with slugs. Equip with a sidesaddle shell carrier...also pattern with buckshot to see what brand it patterns best with.

I like the safety on the mossberg, except when you put a stock with a pistol grip on it(then the Remington has the better safety) The Mossberg receiver
isnt so subject to rust as the blue finish 870( Duracoat can fix this)

I like the slide release on the mossberg because of its position. and the dual action bars on the mossberg.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top