Mosin or AK for Hunting?
- Thread starter Mr Budha
- Start date
Re comparing ....
Hot .38 special+p runs around 400 ft/lbs ME (Buffalo Bore makes hotter yet)
.357 Magnum can do 550, without pushing it.
How fast are 123 gr soft points going out of an AK? 2200? 1300ft/lbs or so ME*.....
30/30 standard loading is 150gr at 2300 ..... 1760 ft/lbs....
400/550= .72ish call it 70%
1320/1760= .75ish .......
So the comparison is valid.....
*That's MUZZLE energy..... by 100 yards, that stumpy little bullet is packing under 1000 ft/lbs, and falling fast.
I'm fine with my skills, and my ethics- I'll use the best tool that I have available for the job......
Hot .38 special+p runs around 400 ft/lbs ME (Buffalo Bore makes hotter yet)
.357 Magnum can do 550, without pushing it.
How fast are 123 gr soft points going out of an AK? 2200? 1300ft/lbs or so ME*.....
30/30 standard loading is 150gr at 2300 ..... 1760 ft/lbs....
400/550= .72ish call it 70%
1320/1760= .75ish .......
So the comparison is valid.....
*That's MUZZLE energy..... by 100 yards, that stumpy little bullet is packing under 1000 ft/lbs, and falling fast.
I'm fine with my skills, and my ethics- I'll use the best tool that I have available for the job......
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I've heard 3-4 MOA is typical. If the shooter can hold to that from field positions, then it's still "pie plate accurate" to 200 yards..... I know I would have some shooter induced error what with the wonderful sights on the AK..... the power of the round would preclude me from shooting at a deer past 100 yards, even if it was all I had..... trailing a wounded animal is not my idea of an afternoon well spent.
Every comparison I have seen between the 7.62X39 to the .30-30 was more about trajectory than terminal ballistics. The trajectory of both is nearly identical out to 200 yards, and lackluster at best (compared to other .308 caliber options), but the .30-30 shoots heavier bullets as fast or faster.
The .30-30 is clearly superior on target (on edit: hits harder), but both are adequate to 100 yards or so, a little farther for the .30-30.
The answer to the OP remains, use the rifle that you shoot best. If you can put them all on a pie plate with the AK, but not the Mosin, use the AK. If you shoot both the same, I would use the Mosin.
The .30-30 is clearly superior on target (on edit: hits harder), but both are adequate to 100 yards or so, a little farther for the .30-30.
The answer to the OP remains, use the rifle that you shoot best. If you can put them all on a pie plate with the AK, but not the Mosin, use the AK. If you shoot both the same, I would use the Mosin.
Yea, I'll be taking the two rifles to the range to shoot hopefully next Wednesday by the latest (depends on when the ammo arrives and I can get out of school and work). Although I am almost certain I will be taking the Mosin.
I noticed that the more I shot the Mosin the worse the grouping got. I'm going to shoot one shot, wait 5 minutes, take the second, wait 5 minutes, and then shoot the third (my range does 15 minute intervals before going out to check the target). If with the hunting ammo, I'm getting good results then the Mosin will be taken for sure. I suspect the barrel heating up is drastically is effecting the accuracy. Realistically, I'm going to fire one shot, maybe two on the hunt (if any) so as long as the cold barrel is giving me accurate shots I'll feel comfortable. As Jimbo86 stated, I do not want to wound the animal and then have to track it.
I will be hunting on private land (I know that does not exempt me from following the laws of that state) but I don't believe I'll have to deal with any sort of supervision. Also, I wouldn't load more than five if I took the AK. There would literally be no point.
sc928porsche
New member
The old Mosin makes a great deer rifle. Ballistics are about the same as the 30-40 Krag. Most of them shoot accurately enough for hunting. The cartridge is also quite capable of taking Elk.
sc928porsche
New member
Krag ammo is available in 150 and 180 grain. Balistics are about the same. Equal weight will give very similar performance. For deer, the 150 gr will work quite well.
The hottest 150 gr 30-40 Krag load I could find gets to 2650 f/sec(@ 39K CUP), with most in the 24-2500 range .... with 1890's metalurgy and a single locking lug, I wouldn't try the hot one.
The fastest Commie Aught Six 150 gr load I've seen claims 3000 f/sec (@50K PSI) , with 28-2900 being more common.
A Krag pushing a 150 gr speer .308 spitzer to 2500f/sec will have a drop of about 18 inches below its 100 yard zero at 300, with 1128 ft/lbs of energy remaining.
A Mosin pushing a 150gr speer .311 spitzer to 2800 will drop 13 inches below its 100 yard zero and have 1551 ft/lbs @300......
13 is "very similar" to 18 only in that they are both numbers in the teens. 18 inches is almost 1/3 more drop than 13......
Likewise, 1128 ft/lbs and 1551 are not "similar" in terms of energy.
By any objective measure (velocity, muzzle energy, retained energy, working pressure limit), the 7.62x54R is more gun than the .30-40 Krag.....
The Krag is just a bit more powerful than the .30/30, and less so than he 300 Savage.
The 7.62x54R is in the .30/06 class, and to say it has "very similar" ballistics to the Krag is just silly.
Rifleman1952
New member
I would go with the Mosin because of the superior ballistics and the fact that bolt action rifles tend to be more accurate than semi-autos. Practice with the ammo you will use in the hunt. Also make sure you check with your state hunting laws regarding the types of weapons permitted for deer. In my state of Ohio, you can only hunt deer with a shotgun slug, bow, handgun (.357 or larger caliber with at least a 5" barrel) or muzzle loading rifle.
How did this turn in to a ******* match about the Krag?
Check the laws where you are hunting, but generally speaking, "only 5 rounds loaded" is irrelevant if your magazine can hold more. The laws usually refer to capacity, not how many are loaded.
My experience is with bird hunting though, surprisingly, with all our asinine firearms laws, mag capacity is not restricted in California for rifles in the hunting regs. If you legally own a 30 round magazine (and a gun that can use it), you can hunt with it (last time I checked).
Check the laws where you are hunting, but generally speaking, "only 5 rounds loaded" is irrelevant if your magazine can hold more. The laws usually refer to capacity, not how many are loaded.
My experience is with bird hunting though, surprisingly, with all our asinine firearms laws, mag capacity is not restricted in California for rifles in the hunting regs. If you legally own a 30 round magazine (and a gun that can use it), you can hunt with it (last time I checked).
Okay so I got the Wolf Gold in and shot 20 in total. My very first shot at 50 yards hit in the top left black (covered by tape in the shot). And most others shot high left at 50 and especially at 75 yards. When I got to 75 I swapped over to my Marlin 60 (the shots all in the center and below in the black) and noticed that I was flinching slightly to the left! Tried to focus on not doing so and pulling the trigger real slow. The shots uncovered are the 100 yard shots which were mostly high, and one that was very high, which I probably jumped when the guy next to me fired off his 300 win. mag.
The very last shot was high right in the black at 100 yards (the one circled). I still wish I had more time to practice but I need to remember to relax, pull slowly and not flinch! Also, I was changing my point of aim to help adjust to try and hit the black. But if I get the chance on the hunt to shoot, I'm going to aim just slightly low left. The first shot seems to be pretty accurate for some reason.
Above are my shots with the AK at 50, 75 & 100 yards. I do feel slightly more confident with the AK but no doubt the Mosin has a much better sight picture and is more appropriate for the hunt. I might try and bring both along, maybe shoot hog with the AK if it's close enough.
tahunua001
New member
packing 2 guns while hunting can get tiring fast. I would recommend the AK since you are much more accurate. well placed shots kill more animals than badly placed but more powerful shots. also since the mosin nagant has a 300 meter battle sight on it you will need to hold about 6-10 inches low at 100 to hit what you are aiming at. if you are already flinching then aiming left will be counterproductive as the flinch will force your shot even further left if aiming low and slightly right will compensate for both the sights and the flinch.
For the Mosin target, what position were you shooting, and what were you aiming at?
It is possible the front sight needs to be adjusted to the left a hair.
The elevation thing is another matter, I always use a 6:00 hold with iron sights at bullseye targets (aim at the bottom of the black circle).
It is possible you need either a taller front sight, or remove a little bit of material off the bottom of the rear sight slider, to let it sit a little lower.
But based on those targets, I would use the AK, assuming you can find a 5 round magazine.
It is possible the front sight needs to be adjusted to the left a hair.
The elevation thing is another matter, I always use a 6:00 hold with iron sights at bullseye targets (aim at the bottom of the black circle).
It is possible you need either a taller front sight, or remove a little bit of material off the bottom of the rear sight slider, to let it sit a little lower.
But based on those targets, I would use the AK, assuming you can find a 5 round magazine.
^It is possible the sight needs to be adjusted. I was aiming underneath the black and right in the middle. It is possible that i was flinching. The hunt was successful although I did very quickly find out that, yes, neither rifle is good for hunting lol. I'm going to save up for a proper hunting rifle. Was switching off between the Mosin and my buddies Browning Medallion rifle. Thanks to everyone for the help and wonderful information. I will taking the mosin back to the range in order the shoot some more and find out whether the gun is just wild or it's me!
mosin
i had to use a mosin for hunting this year because of lack of money but this wasnt your everyday mosin either it had quite abit done to it but before i put a scope on i could hit the target that i was aiming at as long as it wasnt longer that 100 yds because the front iron sights cover everything past that for me. but dont be afraid to hunt with a mosin i took a elk and a deer this season with mine. GOOD LUCK!!
i had to use a mosin for hunting this year because of lack of money but this wasnt your everyday mosin either it had quite abit done to it but before i put a scope on i could hit the target that i was aiming at as long as it wasnt longer that 100 yds because the front iron sights cover everything past that for me. but dont be afraid to hunt with a mosin i took a elk and a deer this season with mine. GOOD LUCK!!
Justice06RR
New member
For hunting I would always take the Mosin because we all know the AK is an inaccurate commie round 
(j/k)
I have both rifles and I would take the Mosin every time. The AK is for fun IMO (and when the zombies come!)
(j/k)
I have both rifles and I would take the Mosin every time. The AK is for fun IMO (and when the zombies come!)
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Whichever you shoot best. In the long run developing the mosin into a better hunting rifle would be smarter than the AK. You can get a sporter stock for it and such without damaging the rifle.
THe key on this trip will be to limit the range you shoot at. If you hit a 5 inch target at 50 yards that is all the farther you should shoot with either gun.
The first few times I went hunting I just tried to learn as much as I could. Work on the riflery a bit before next year and just be happy to get out in the woods this year.
Of course, all but one of the shots I have taken have all been within 50 yards.
THe key on this trip will be to limit the range you shoot at. If you hit a 5 inch target at 50 yards that is all the farther you should shoot with either gun.
The first few times I went hunting I just tried to learn as much as I could. Work on the riflery a bit before next year and just be happy to get out in the woods this year.
Of course, all but one of the shots I have taken have all been within 50 yards.