Mosin Nagant

R

REC510

New member
I am going to be looking at Mosin Nagants this weekend and was hoping some of you might have some tips. As far as I can tell the Russian 91/30s, 38s, and 44s are closest to my price range, and I have heard you can still get a reliable, accurate gun. Is there anything I should know about accuracy, reliability, etc. in various types? Any recommendations for different types, (doesn't have to be one of the ones I mentioned)?

Also, I was concerned about the accuracy of the Mosins. Which ones were built to be fired with a bayonet affixed where I might have trouble later without one, or simply, which ones are known to be better manufactured and most accurate? Finally, are there other things to look for besides matching numbers, bullet test, shot or drilled out bores, etc. when looking at it in the store?

Just hoping you guys could educate me a little, thanks! :D
 
You pretty much nailed it. The hard part is also sourcing the stripper clips. It can be hard to find good ones I hear.

The bayonet lug I think is more important than the bayonet itself because that can be bought later if needed.

There is no more strength in the more expensive hex receiver.
 
Are any made to be fired without the bayo affixed? It may come with it but will I be getting strange looks at the range just so I can have optimal accuracy? On the plus side, I guess no one will try to take the adjacent lanes...
 
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Q. Why does my M44 shoot so far to the left (or right) of the point of aim?
A. M44s were sighted in with the bayonet extended. Shooting with the bayonet stowed affects the barrel harmonics and can change the point of impact by as much as 1 foot per 100 yards. Not all M44s are effected this much or even at all. Either shoot with the bayonet extended or drift the front sight to compensate for the difference.

Q. My M91/30 bayonet is numbered to the rifle, but it won't fit on the muzzle, why is that?
A. Soviet military doctrine called for the bayonet to remain fixed to the rifle at all times with the exception of traveling by motor vehicle or when in long term storage. The bayonet will go on, but it will be a very tight fit and will be difficult to remove. This is good for charging infantry, but not collectors. The inside of the bayonet socket can be opened slightly with a dowel wrapped with sandpaper to make fixing and removal easier.

Q. Which model of Mosin Nagant is most accurate?
A. While there are accurate and inaccurate examples in every model of firearm, as a general rule Finnish Mosins are more accurate than those produced in other countries. The M28/30 is probably the most accurate with the M39 following close behind.

etc.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFAQ.htm
 
The M38 is a good carbine, and not designed to be fired with a bayonet affixed.

I have a very late production version. It's a great piece of communist craftsmanship.

Whatever you get -
Just make sure the serial number on the bolt matches the serial number on the rifle. If it doesn't, but you're still interested, make the seller check the rifle's headspace. If it's bad, or he refuses, don't buy it!

Also make sure the bolt guide rail is not bent badly. (It's on the bottom of the bolt, as pictured here: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/FinnBlueBolt.jpg)
People that don't know what they're doing like to mess with the cocking piece/safety knob with the bolt in positions it shouldn't be. This, and other people forcing the stuck bolt open after the idiot, can cause the "forked" end of the rail (under the cocking piece/safety knob) to get bent. If it's messed up too badly, the rifle may have issues.
 
mosins

This is true the m38 if I recollect correctly is one of the only Mosins not sighted in with the bayonet attached its doesn't have the option for one either. if your looking for one that's going to be in great firing condition and not beat to crap but still accurate try to get a later dated m44 as many of these were never used or barley used mine look as if it was never even issued an m38 or 91/30 almost certainly saw battle conditions look down the barrel of a few 91 30 's and you will get my drift I've seen some with virtually no rifling left to speak of same with Einfields for some reason some of the ones I've seen were really bad I saw a Indian model 1915 dated the other day that I swore was a smooth bore I don't know how you couldve hit the broad side of a barn with the thing
 
91/30

I own a Mosin Nagant 91/30 and it's a great rifle. Surplus albanian ammo is still cheap and easy to find. Although it is corrosive berdan primed but if you clean immediately after every range session it isn't really a problem.

As for which are best? The best rule to follow is pre war are generally better than the rest this applies for most military firearms of that era. For instance if you can find a 91/30 Mosin nagant with a hexagonal reciever that means it was built roughly from 1930 - 1934 and these are a better finish than the ones built during the war as more time was taken in their assembly and finishing processes, whereas ones built during the war were built as quickly as humanely possible therefore affecting the quality of finish.

Hope this helps. Best of luck in your search
 
Great rifles but my m38's mag spring was a little weak. I already had a couple Mausers and lots of ammo and ended-up selling it. I regret it. They are neat and handy little guns.
 
If you find a nice 38, grab it. I want one. I have an M39 and they ARE SWEET! They have bayo lugs, but the original bayonnets are impossible to find. I scored mine last year for $150 at Pat's Pawn and Gun. A c&r buddy has a couple of 38's and they're really nice carbines. Also- the chinese carbines are pretty cool if you can handle the recoil!
 
Just remember what you are dealing with

And that is at least a 60+ year old milsurp rifle. Bores range from like new to horrid. groove diameters can vary widely. They were carried, shot with corrosive primed ammo, and maintained by peasant conscripts, much of the time.

They are rugged, and they can be accurate. BUT, each one is an individual, and so I make no general statements about their accuracy, except one.

If your Mosin Nagant doesn't shoot well (and the bore looks good), try something other than the cheapest surplus ammo!

Lots of times, when old milsurps in good mechanical condition don't shoot well, the problem is really the ammo. A rifle that can barely hit the broad side of a barn at 100yds with crappy milsurp ammo might be a tack driver with tailored handloads.

Best story to illustrate that I ever heard came from the Phillipines. And the rifle was a Steyr SSG! Now, the SSG has a reputation for being an accurate rifle, but the owner was ticked, because he could only get 5-6in groups! Was on the verge of selling the gun (cheap!) when a friend got him to try some match ammo instead of the Phillipine GI surplus he had been shooting. Groups went to just under an inch! So, before you decide that your MN (or any rifle for that matter) is junk, try different ammo. Sometimes, you do get what you pay for!
 
Barrel condition is the most important thing. Ask to inspect the barrel, then open the bolt, pull the trigger, and slide the bolt out. you can then look down the barrel. More than likely it is going to be packed with cosmoline. If it is then just use your judgement, if it isn't look for the best barrel you can.

Everyone talks about shooting it with the bayonet on, but what most people dont tell you is that the front sight is adjustable and you can tap it with with a punch to the opposite the direction you want the bullet to go. It doesn't take much, maybe a 1/16'' to move the POI an inch or two. My m44 shot 7 inches left with out the bayonet, two inches to the right with the bayonet. I just adjusted the sights so that is shoots dead on with out the bayonet.

The mosin nagant is a very accurate rifle in the right hands, most people just don't shoot it enough or give it much of a chance to proove it self.

I have a friend with a 1903 springfield and i can shoot my m44 significantly better than he can his '03. his gun is probably more accurate, sure, but i know my rifle better and can shoot it better. I can nail a 18'' plate just about every shot at 300 yards with mine. Like i said, you just have to give it a chance and shoot it.

Mine is in very good shape and is a post war m44 that doesn't look like it was used much, so naturally its shoots well. I know a guy who has a Romainian m44 that some idiot before him shot with corrosive ammo and didn't bother to clean it, so the bore is pitted and fouled very baddly and my kentucky rifle with a patch and ball shoots better than his rifle.

Most important thing is barrel condition...
 
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Go to 7.62x54r.net to learn. The rifle has a terric history, including Remington and Westinghouse making them for the Russian Imperial government and US Expeditionary soldiers carrying them on Russian soil, helping to fight against the Reds....we know how that turned out. My Russian 1934 M91/30 is well made (has a Remington bolt face) and is still a great shooter. But my Polish 1952 M44 is beautifully made and an excellent shooter...very accurate. BUT...if you are going to shoot alot...especially heavy ball...spend the $15 and get a made for Mosin Nagant butt pad. They add an inch to the LOP and save alot of wear on your shoulder!
 
Out of the carbines, M38, M44, M91/38 and M91/59, the M91/59 is notable as being the most consistently accurate. Expect to pay $150 and up for one. Only the M44 was designed with a bayonet. All have tremendous muzzle blast due to their short barrel.

In the M91/30's, the Finnish models are generally pretty accurate. The Finns rebarreled some of them at the Tikka plant. the Tikka M91/30's generally sell for $175 and up. The Finnish captured M91/30's (not rebarreled) will generally sell for $125 and up. The Soviet M91/30's come in two flavors, hex prior to 1936 and round receiver after that date. Many pre1930 dragoon rifles were converted to Model 91/30 standards after WW2. In fact, the only pre1930 dragoons I have ever seen were captured by the Finns in WW2. The war years M91/30's are notable for their roughly finished receivers (especially so in 1942-43). The Soviet rifles are generally 3-4 MOA rifles. The Finns that I encounter are generally 2 MOA or better.

The sights on a M91/30 Mosin can be adjusted for windage, so whether or not you want them sighted with or without a bayonet, you can make sure they hit where you aim. Most Soviet M9/30's shoot high and so many shooters will extend the front sight post by adding JB weld on the post or by placing some tubing over the post. I put shrink wrapped tubing on some of mine. Worked great.

Mosins are fun rifles and have a great history. Cheap ammo makes them very affordable.
 
i have 3 of them
1. 1929 hex all matching #'s.. suprisingly good accuracy. very nice original rifle.
2. 1953 hungarian M-44.. probably the nicest one i have. its a great rifle.
3. 91/59.. the most expensive one i have. its also very light for a mosin nagant. great shooter. 91/59 is similar to a M-38.

they are a blast to shoot. they are tuff and reliable. the ammo is dirt cheap. whats not to love. get yourself one and have fun.
 
Only the M44 was designed with a bayonet.
Click to expand...

I agree, and disagree with that....

The M44 may have been the only one designed with an integral, side-folding bayonet, but...

Any rifle capable of accepting a bayonet, had one custom fit to it during the manufacturing process. The banoyets were affixed for proof load, point of aim, and accuracy testing. (That's one of the reasons the bayonets fit so tight.)

All Mosins wear at least* three proof marks representing the a successful proofing, acceptable point of aim, and acceptable accuracy. All of these marks included the bayonet being attached to the rifle for testing (or extended like the M44).

*There can be up to 4 of these: proof, POA, and accuracy proof marks on some rifles, and there are many different versions of the marks. But, there will always be at least the basic 3.
 
Several experienced guys who go to lots of gun shows and each own several, have told me that the authentic Finns are the best, and among the shorter carbine versions, the Polish 44, then the Russian 91/59 or 38.

If you are committed to finding a very good one and are fortunate enough to find a really nice Polish 44 for around $150, you will probably regret it later if you pass it up, unless another series (besides the extremely common 91/30s) is available in comparable condition.

For people near Clarkesville TN, "TN Gun Country" sometimes has very shiny, basic 91/30s still in the original cosmoline, resting in the shipping crate.
I saw one or two soldiers from Ft. Campbell (one mile) admiring them.
 
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Thanks for all of your input. I finally found the rifle I wanted for a price were I felt it was inexcusable not to buy. I got a 1929 Tula Ex-Dragoon in excellent condition. Can't wait to shoot it!
 
Good Luck with your new rifle. Be sure to clean all the cosmoline out of the bore and chamber. The rifles are stored with the action screws loose, be sure they are tight when you go to the range. Use hot water and dish soap to clean the corrosive salts out of the bore. Thoroughly rinse the cleaning rod and brush and clean as normal. I usually take any surplus rifle out of the stock in order to check for rust under the wood.
Best,
Rob
 
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