Mosin Nagant sporter (lets see if i can rile people up)

Sure, it can (and has) been done, but a Mosin-Nagant really isn't the most "sporterization-friendly" design available (Mausers and their variants seem to be more popular).

Recahmbering would be difficult because the 7.62x54r has a case head diameter of .570 which is much wider than most other common rifle cartridges. The only relatively common cartridges I could find in my loading manuals with case head diameters even remotely close to that are .378 Weatherby Magnum and .416 Weatherby Magnum both of which would be far too long for a M-N action. In addition to the case head issue, the single column magazine of the M-N would require pretty extensive modification of replacement in order to accommodate any other reasonably common cartridge.

You've also got barrel length to contend with. Most sporting rifles have barrels in the 22-26" range which conveniently happens to be about the same length as a Lee-Enfield No. 1 Mk. III or No. 4 Mk. I, M1903 Springfield, P17 Enfield, or Kar98K Mauser. The Mosin-Nagants on the other hand have either longer barrels in the case of the 91/30 or shorter barrels in the case of the M38 and M44. In my opinion, the M38 with its 20" barrel and lack of a bayonet lug would make the best platform for a sporter because it's not that short. The 91/30 barrel is, IMHO, just too long and would look ungainly in a sporter stock while the M44 would look odd unless the bayonet and lug were removed. Unfortunately, the M38 is the most expensive of these three variants.

If you decide not to rechamber, there are other issues which make "sporterizing" a M-N somewhat problematic. The split-bridge Mannlicher-type reciever makes mounting a in the traditional position more difficult as you can't have the traditional rear base and must instead resort to a side mount. Also, the farther forward position of the straight bolt handle means that you have to both turn the bolt handle down and use a fairly high mounted scope. Also, you have to make sure that the scope is mounted high enough for you to still have room to manipulate the safety as I've found you have to have a fairly firm grasp on the cocking piece in order to engage or disengage the safety (a feature that seems to have been and afterthought in the design) You can of course use a forward mounted "scout" setup for a scope, but that doesn't really fit the classic "sporter" profile.

Finally, you have the stock. Because Mosin-Nagants aren't popular rifles to sporterize, your options for aftermarket stocks are somewhat limited. For the stock, you've basically got three options: modify the existing one (lots of work and it still probably won't look like a traditional sporter), use a plastic stock like an ATI (cheapest and easiest route but ugly in many peoples eyes), or have someone custom make a wooden stock (spendy).

Basically, in order to really sporterize a Mosin-Nagant, your probably looking a large enough investment of both money and time that you'd be better off just buying a new Savage that's already set up as a sporter. If, on the other hand, you just want to drop the rifle into a plastic camo stock and stick a scout scope on it, and load it full of Wolf JSP's to deer hunt with, well then you'll have a pretty decent deer gun for not a lot of money (though I really don't see anything wrong with a M-N as a deer gun in its original form). Likewise, if you just want to be the only guy at the range with a fancy Mosin, its your money so spend it in whatever way makes you happy.
 
After I (sporterized / accurized) My M44 I can now shoot 3moa @ 500m. I think most people are looking for better accuracy than just looks. Of course it is always fun to take a cheap rifle and turn it into something good.:D
 
Well if I was to build one I would strip clear to the action with a new barrel and stock and chamber it in something else. I would do all the work and I would make it like I wanted it. Having to only buy the parts I figure it would be pretty cheap. I think it would be fun to build one as a truck and brush gun. Nothing else I could just use peep sights or ghost rings or something. Not saying I'm going to start buying every mosin I see but with mausers going up I might look into it.
 
been looking at some cartridges and i ran across the 25 Krag. Based on the 30-40 krag so rim size would be smaller by .020 which might take some work, and overall length is fairly close. Would make a neat truck gun, small enough for varmits but still big enough for deer if the occasion called for it.
 
Recahmbering would be difficult because the 7.62x54r has a case head diameter of .570 which is much wider than most other common rifle cartridges.
There are plenty of commercial cases with head sizes close to the appropriate size (303 Brit, 30-40 Krag, 348 Win, 45-70, you name it), plus literally dozens of wildcats based on any one of those cartridges. Or invent your own wildcat, you already mentioned the 25 Krag, why not a 25 Russian? The Russians have whole lines of cartridges based on the 7.62X53Rmm case (6mm, 7mm, 9.3mm, 10.15mm), much as the US has whole lines of cartridges based on the 30-06 case. If you just cannot get into one of those, you modify the bolt head, pretty simple. You could chamber it for 22 Hornet, if you were so inclined. Or you could just redo it in 7.62X53Rmm with a high quality barrel and go take on guys at the range in informal matches (wouldn't that tick you off, see your $1,200 TC Icon get beaten by a sporter M-N?).

Because Mosin-Nagants aren't popular rifles to sporterize, your options for aftermarket stocks are somewhat limited.
You can buy stocks for M-Ns, just like you can buy a stock for a Lee-Enfield or a Carcano or a Berthier or a Daudateau or . . . can you say "stockmaker"? I knew you could.

So don't limit yourself because of what somebody has already done or says can or cannot be done, be creative!
 
i already looked and Richards micro fit list the MN in their list of actions inlets so a good wood stock is taken care of, a timney trigger w/safety, and a barrel blank turned to fit. only thing that leaves would be magazine work to make a new round work. I have been wanting a 219 Donaldson wasp based off the 30-30, would take some bolt work but would make a neat varmiter.
 
There are plenty of commercial cases with head sizes close to the appropriate size (303 Brit, 30-40 Krag, 348 Win, 45-70, you name it), plus literally dozens of wildcats based on any one of those cartridges.

According to my Lyman 48th Edition Reloading Handbook, .303 British has a case head diameter of .540, .30-40 Krag is .545, .348 Win is .610 and .45-70 is .608. Also, all the cartridges you listed except the .45-70 are longer than 7.62x54r which may cause difficulty with the length of the action and the length/shape of the magazine (.45-70 even though it's shorter would still be difficult to adapt to a M-N magazine). Also, I'm not really sure why you'd want to rechamber a Mosin to .303 Brit or .30-40 Krag as neither offer superior ballistics to 7.62x54r nor cheaper ammo.

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Because Mosin-Nagants aren't popular rifles to sporterize, your options for aftermarket stocks are somewhat limited.
You can buy stocks for M-Ns, just like you can buy a stock for a Lee-Enfield or a Carcano or a Berthier or a Daudateau or . . . can you say "stockmaker"? I knew you could.

Can you say "expensive"? Yeah, I thought you could.

Look, I'm not saying that a Mosin-Nagant can't be sporterized or even that it shouldn't be sporterized, I'm just saying that it's a more difficult and expensive platform to sporterize than something like a Mauser or Lee Enfield. If the OP just wants something unique and doesn't mind the time and money that it will take to turn a Mosin into the rifle of his dreams, then he should definately go for it. If, however, he thinks he's going to save lots of money by sporterizing a Mosin, well then I'm afraid he's mistaken.
 
According to my Lyman 48th Edition Reloading Handbook,
Yes, I have manuals too. But since the OP is talking about a wildcat cartridge, I also said
literally dozens of wildcats based on any one of those cartridges
Can you say "expensive"?
With very few exceptions, semi-inletted stock blanks cost the same, be it for a 98, a SMLE, or a M-N.

It's a project gun. Sure, it's easier to customize and wildcat with a M98 or a 1903 or M1917, but he's talking about using a different platform. And since I have been doing what the OP is talking about doing for roughly the last 30 years, I also said
don't limit yourself because of what somebody has already done or says can or cannot be done, be creative!
I have chambered lever actions in 357/44 B&D, built sub-MOA match rifles on lever actions for cast-bullet matches, built a Carcano in 35 Remington with a XX Fancy stock and scoped it, shortened M98 actions for custom rifles, made cases for drilling rifles when there was no ammo available, loaded and fired BP cartridge rifles with paper patched bullets, made claw mounts to fit European rifles, they all turned out very nice, and in each case there was someone there telling me it could not be done. I guess I am just not smart enough to listen to the "voice of reason".

Sorry if my rant offends anyone.
 
well ive been looking around some and basically parts are the same price so a basic mn build would be cheaper than a Mauser build since Mauser actions are more expensive than a whole MN rifle. Now there are a lot more options avialble for the mauser that would make building a fancy or extravagent mauser cheaper but for just a basic truck gun they would be about the same given the fact that i would be doing all the work. also if you look at the 25 krag improved i found an overall length of 2.980 which is just barely shorter than the 7.62x54 so it should fit perfect for length. The rim diameter on the Krag is .545 where as the 7.62 is .567. Im not sure if enough of the rim would still catch to feed and extract reliably but if not i could always build up the bolt head a little somehow. These values are just what i found on the internet not a reloading manual so take them as you will.
 
Suggest you start with a MN carbine action (unless you plan on cutting the barrel) for a "truck gun". The barrels on the 91/30 are 28-3/4" long...not conducive to getting in and out of a vehicle easily. The carbine has a 20" barrel.
 
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According to my Lyman 48th Edition Reloading Handbook,
Yes, I have manuals too. But since the OP is talking about a wildcat cartridge, I also said
Quote:
literally dozens of wildcats based on any one of those cartridges

You're going to have to make some fairly extensive modifications to the bolt head in order to make a wildcat based on anything but 7.62x54r work. There is a reason that wildcats are usually based on already existing and popular cartridges: it makes it easier to re-work a rifle into one.

Quote:
Can you say "expensive"?
With very few exceptions, semi-inletted stock blanks cost the same, be it for a 98, a SMLE, or a M-N.

Why limit yourself to a stock blank? Why not just buy a big old log of your chosen wood and whittle whatever type of stock you like out of it? Look, I know it can be done, I never said it couldn't. All I'm saying is that in order to get a M-N stock that looks even remotely close to a "sporter" you're either going to have to go with an el cheapo plastic one or invest more time and/or money in a wooden on than you would on another platform.

It's a project gun. Sure, it's easier to customize and wildcat with a M98 or a 1903 or M1917, but he's talking about using a different platform. And since I have been doing what the OP is talking about doing for roughly the last 30 years, I also said
Quote:
don't limit yourself because of what somebody has already done or says can or cannot be done, be creative!
I have chambered lever actions in 357/44 B&D, built sub-MOA match rifles on lever actions for cast-bullet matches, built a Carcano in 35 Remington with a XX Fancy stock and scoped it, shortened M98 actions for custom rifles, made cases for drilling rifles when there was no ammo available, loaded and fired BP cartridge rifles with paper patched bullets, made claw mounts to fit European rifles, they all turned out very nice, and in each case there was someone there telling me it could not be done. I guess I am just not smart enough to listen to the "voice of reason".

I know it can be done, I never said that it couldn't. However, the OP has mentioned the low price of a M-N as opposed to a Mauser several times which leads me to believe that he thinks he's going to be saving money. Because of the fairly extensive modifications that we're talking about doing here, the OP is either going to have to spend a pretty significant amount of money to have a gunsmith do all this for him, invest a lot of time and work doing it himself, or a combination of both.

I'm sure that with enough time, money, and patience you could feasibly make a Mosin into anything you wanted from a .22 plinker to a long-range sniper in .338 Lapua to an African Dangerous Game rifle in .458 Win Mag. However, by the time you invest the money, time (I don't know about you, but my time is worth something), and effort into making a M-N into such a beast, you could have simply bought a rifle already set up the way you want.

If the OP just wants something unique to make people at the range say "what the hell is that?" then more the power to him. If, however, he thinks he's going to turn a $90 Mosin into a commercial grade sporter for half the price well then I'm afraid he's mistaken.

There is a reason that you see a lot more sporter Enfields and Mauser variants than Mosins, Carcanos, Lebels, Berthiers, etc. and that is that Enfield and Mauser variants are much easier to sporterize. Much like hot rods and muscle cars, the days of sporterizing milsurp rifles in order to save money are over as the supply of easily sporterized rifles is rapidly drying up. The only reason to sporterize a milsurp these days is to gratify a want for something different, not to save money. If the OP simply wants a unique one-off, well it's his time, money and rifle and more the power to him. There are plenty of Mosins out there so I'm not going to cry foul about hacking up a valuable collector's item. However, given his repeated comments about the low price of a Mosin, I get the feeling that he doesn't fully understand the degree of work that will be required for such a project.
 
It's all do-able. I wish I had bough half a dozen of them when they were $35.00 each.
 

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well if you think i don't fully understand what is entailed in building a rifle check out my mauser build thread (turkish mauser in 6.5-06). yea it would be a lot of work but I happen to have a friend with the tools to do the work and i enjoy the work. and not counting labor i figure i could probably build a good shooting truck rifle for around 400-600 (yes i could buy a used savage for that much but then its still a used savage). figure 100 for the rifle, 90 for a barrel blank from midway, 100-150 for a richards micro fit stock, then other little stuff. Now is this going to produce a gun that will shoot cloverleaf groups at 600 yrd, i doubt it but it would probably shoot minute of rock chuck at 200 yrds. now im not saying a mn is ever going to be as good as a mauser and darn sure aren't going to look as good but i think they might have potential. the point about magazine and bolt work is valid but with a lathe, mill, and some ingenuity i don't think it would be unsolvable. Not arguing with anyone, just saying.
 
well if you think i don't fully understand what is entailed in building a rifle check out my mauser build thread (turkish mauser in 6.5-06). yea it would be a lot of work but I happen to have a friend with the tools to do the work and i enjoy the work. and not counting labor i figure i could probably build a good shooting truck rifle for around 400-600 (yes i could buy a used savage for that much but then its still a used savage). figure 100 for the rifle, 90 for a barrel blank from midway, 100-150 for a richards micro fit stock, then other little stuff. Now is this going to produce a gun that will shoot cloverleaf groups at 600 yrd, i doubt it but it would probably shoot minute of rock chuck at 200 yrds. now im not saying a mn is ever going to be as good as a mauser and darn sure aren't going to look as good but i think they might have potential. the point about magazine and bolt work is valid but with a lathe, mill, and some ingenuity i don't think it would be unsolvable. Not arguing with anyone, just saying.

As long as you understand what you're getting into, then go for it. I completely understand the allure of guns you don't see everyday, that's why I like and own many of the guns I do. I've seen some pretty cool variations of Mosins over the years although the prices when they're for sale usually aren't all that cool.

Its just that I've seen too many hacked-up, half-done projects that were in the state they were because the person doing the mods got in over his head. That combined with the rather condescending tone of a couple of replies got me a little riled up, but I meant no offense to you. As I said before, so long as you understand what you're going to have to do, it's your gun, money, and time to do with what you wish.

Since you've decided that you're going to go ahead with the project, I'd suggest either leaving the rifle in the original caliber or rechambering to a wildcat based on the 7.65x54r cartridge. By doing that, you'll avoid the difficulties associated with the bolt head and magazine. The 7.62x54r is, in my opinion, a pretty good cartridge and should have the case capacity and pressure ceiling to allow good performance from a wildcat based on it. I know you were looking at going to a smaller diameter bullet, but I think that perhaps necking up to a .33 or .35 diameter would be quite interesting. Something along the lines of a .35 Whelen would make an excellent brush gun and should be adequate for most, if not all, North American big game. Of course it depends on what your intended use for the rifle is as a "9x54r" would probably be a bit of overkill for coyotes and prairie dogs.
 
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I chopped one up a bit several years ago to semi sporterize it. I don't see why not, they are a dime a dozen. I wouldn't think you could ever make it look nice and refined like a mauser because the nagant is very rough and crudely machined. They make a good knock around woods rifle though and you can make them look some what appealing as kind of a rough use rifle in my opinion. A buddy of mine really liked the one I did so I sold it to him. I sporterized the stock, installed sling swivel studs, a modern hunting sling, and did some painting with camo earth tones. It really looked like a whole different gun. That was a carbine model. They sure a inexpensive right now so I say, buy a few and goto work. See what you can do.
 
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