Mosin-Nagant accuracy - a start

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ligonierbill

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I inherited this 1944 Mosin, complete with plastic replacement stock, but hey, I had to see what she would do. I took wyosmith's advice and picked up one of those scout scope mounts that fits the sight base and a good 'ole Weaver 4X long eye relief scope. Shooting my loads of 0.311 Sierra ProHunter 150s, I managed just under 3". These loads were developed for reasonable velocity and Std; I haven't tried to improve groups yet. But now I will. Not exactly a tack driver, but respectable enough to warrant some experimentation.
 

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What's the bore condition? Sharp rifling? Pitting?

I always tell my prospective customers "I can't make a sewer pipe shoot" no matter what other work is done- the most critical component to accuracy is the barrel.

If the bore is good or better, keep working on the loads. My go to "universal" MN load is 43.5 of Varget under the .311 SMK. Not a speed demon, but never disappoints with accuracy.

Barrel whip is a b**** with the 29" spaghetti military barrel. If you're not averse to cutting the barrel, suggest you do so at 20"-22" and recrown it. Mitigates the whip/ adds rigidity, and lessens the propensity to string shots when the barrel heats up in a target shooting application (and it does so quickly due to lack of mass).

Make sure the barrel is free-floated. Some guys like to experiment with putting a "pressure point" between the stock and barrel, but especially if cut I see no reason to treat it differently than any other rifle barrel- float it.

When everything else is "right", and with sharp rifling and a tight bore- these rifles will shoot 1"-2" (usually closer to 1") with developed handloads.
 
I'm not a Mosin Smith, but I agree on basic principals with what tobnpr said. I would cut the barrel and, if possible, have a new crown turned for it on the lathe. Crowns can be done reasonably by hand but I like to indicate my bore to .0002" and turn it myself with a single point cutter. Superstition or quality, I don't know, but that's how I like to do it. Cutting a number of inches off the barrel should help the rigidity. In theory, that's what the barrel band does.

I would replace the stock. Not a fan of those flimsy ATI stocks. Mine is in a Boyd's which I found to be decent and relatively inexpensive. Good for bedding, too (I would bed the large chamber portion of the barrel and let the rest free float).

Trigger upgrade could help, too. Not exactly target triggers.

Last thing I would do is check and make sure your sight set up is very rigid. I haven't had good luck with the mounts that attach to the rear sight base but you may have found a better one.
 
dakota.potts said:
Last thing I would do is check and make sure your sight set up is very rigid. I haven't had good luck with the mounts that attach to the rear sight base but you may have found a better one.
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I will be that guy and say that you probably have a lot of play in that sight... and that would be the first thing I'd try to fix.

You can try different ammo combinations, but if your sight is wandering 3 MOA... you kind of are wasting time attempting to improve your groups.

The gun, as it sits now, may be able to do tighter groups. However, I'm calling the mount the main hinderance that you'd want to square away if accuracy is what you want.

But just my $0.02... you don't see precision rifle shooters messing around with their reloads when they have subpar mounts.
 
I don't like modifying my Vintage Military Rifles. For one thing, I shoot CMP Vintage Rifle Matches and the CMP rules state "as issued".

How ever I did buy one of those scout set ups for my Mosin. It can be added by simply removing the rear sight with one pin, and it just takes a pair of seconds to remove the scope and put the rear sight back on.

Since I mainly shoot the Rifle in VRMs, accuracy is called for. I'm a firm believe the best thing you can do to accursed a Mosin (or any other rifle) is to use quality ammo.

But for playing, the scout set up is a lot of fun.

Mosin%20Scout.JPG
 
I take the more "it is what it is" approach, with Mosin accuracy.
They can be fun to shoot, but, IME, the cold shot is a tack driver.
On every Mosin I own. Accuracy goes downhill from there, I imagine,
because of tobnpr's "spaghetti barrel" effect.

If I'm shooting for tight groups with a Mosin, I ditch the surplus ammo, and
use either PPU, or handloads, and I swab the barrel with oil or bore butter
and allow it to cool for a while between shots. But this does close up the groups
considerably, at least, for me.

The real question is, how often do you want to prove a point with these
rifles? It gets expensive, and time consuming.
 
You say "1944 Mosin". What model? M44? If that's the case, the rear sight removal is much more complicated. Your best "easy" scope base option would be a Brass Stacker, if you want a stable mount.
 
It's a 91/30. I do have a nice unaltered 96 Mauser for CMP, if I get around to it. Took a clinic with a K-31, but found it has a 3# trigger. Since this Mosin-Nagant is already modified, it's just for fun. The scope mount is as stable as any. Notice that the group is strung out vertically. The only place the mount can move is horizontally at the rear, and that's awful tight. Vertical string usually means the barrel is heating, as mentioned by several here.

I will probably just have fun with it, but I could shorten the barrel and upgrade and bed the stock, just for fun of course.

Glad to hear people are taking these old rifles seriously.
 
i take the more "it is what it is" approach, with mosin accuracy.
They can be fun to shoot, but, ime, the cold shot is a tack driver.
On every mosin i own. Accuracy goes downhill from there, i imagine,
because of tobnpr's "spaghetti barrel" effect. * * *
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Mosins ... accuracy? LOL ... :D :D :D
 
Mosins ... accuracy? LOL
Click to expand...

Sorry but when I saw this I had to come in and say something.

A lot of mosins are inaccurate as they weren't taken care of well. After years and years of crud in the barrel (if they weren't cleaned) they might pit. Many people got these or wartime ones which were made with very little quality control.

However, good ones are, in fact, accurate. The one I picked up shot some pretty tight groups, right on target every time (theses are the original sights, no sighting in required).

I do agree that many are inaccurate, but many are very accurate too.
After all, the most successful sniper in history used one WITHOUT a scope (he could keep a lower profile without one as he didn't have to stick his head up to look through one). Named Simo Haya, nicknamed "White Death," from his white camouflage suit and his odd mask. He has at least 542 confirmed kills he got in less than 100 days during the Winter War.

He survived through the whole war and died of natural causes in 2002.

Mosin Accuracy? Turns out they do make a good shooter. . .
 
AGT,
I don't know what it'll take to get your adolescent attacks out of this thread, but I'll repeat what I've said before.

My worst Mosin barrel has put 3 shots under an inch with surplus ammo at 100 yards with iron sights.
This was during a shooting test session that also involved an expensive FN precision .308, with good glass, and the Mosin outshot that FN.

That Mosin's group was also markedly tighter than the best I was able to get from an FBI designated sniper package costing several thousand dollars.

That Mosin, sitting in a plain Boyds stock, with Josh's front sight installed & no other modifications, shocked the hell out of me, but it did what I said it did.

My sniper Mosin can't beat it, but that sniper can pull off 2-inch groups on a good day, with commercial ammo.

I also have a sporterised Mosin in a pillar-bedded Boyds stock, with Rock Solid scope mount & extended bolt handle, under a medium-grade Leupold scope, with a mildly tweaked military trigger & a cutback 22-inch original barrel that can do 2 inches & under if the wind blows right.

And in the past I've shot standard military configuration Mosins at 2 inches & under.

Each one is its own deal, and while many are in sad shape, it's quite possible to find a good shooter.

Can you just take a long walk off a short pier & leave the rest of us to discuss this rifle without your incessant trolling?

If you can't stand the Mosin, stay out of this thread.
If you can't control your urge to knock the rifle & deride those who shoot it, go away.

How many times do you need to be told flat out that you contribute nothing to the subject under discussion & your presence is not enjoyed?
Denis
 
My Mosin sniper...with it's 3.5 PU scope: 1 3/4", three shot group at 100 yards; with Russian sniper ammo.
 
If you can't stand the Mosin, stay out of this thread.
If you can't control your urge to knock the rifle & deride those who shoot it, go away.

How many times do you need to be told flat out that you contribute nothing to the subject under discussion & your presence is not enjoyed?
Denis
Click to expand...

This happened in my thread too asking if these would make good survival rifles...I think you've seen them (the garand posts).

Thanks for the post, anyways
 
Thanks for the interesting responses. As always, some are useful, some just need to be ignored. And I should ignore those that cost me money, but. .. I plan to shorten the barrel a bit, say 4", and put the 11° crown on. If it improves, great. As plastic stocks go, I've seen worse than the ATI, but I like wood. So I may get something interesting and bed the action. One thing this old Russian will never be is light. But, she may become respectable. Where's the vodka?
 
How do you plan to cut the crown?

If not using a lathe, I have heard there are some that you can do by hand but I would definitely look for one with a piloted bushing that fits your bore so the crown stays concentric.
 
Brownell's sells a cutter with interchangeable brass pilots. For the cost of the tools, I'm close to a gunsmith's rate, but then I have the tools and one piece of experience. May need to rework another crown sometime.
 
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