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oneoftwenty7.62
Moderator
narrow minded
I usually dont feel the need to interact on polls like this one......but am sick in bed so what the h*ll.
I find it so tiresome.to hear "no reasons" to be there.as if we rushed in over night.
The world was convinced that weapons of mass destruction exsisted in Iraq....if in doubt ask the northern Kurds...you know the ones gassed to death? That one reason alone was enough for me.
Am I the only one who remembers an Iraqi invasion to the south?
Remember the price of oil going through the roof?
Am I the only one who sees a bigger picture here? I know it is political suicide to say we went in to protect the oil fields....cuz we all dont mind paying $3.50+ a gallon. I have reason to believe Saddam would have been leaning on the saudis next just to get the price of oil up.
Think I am wrong??.....hope I am..but if we lose the oil fields......remember this
I usually dont feel the need to interact on polls like this one......but am sick in bed so what the h*ll.
I find it so tiresome.to hear "no reasons" to be there.as if we rushed in over night.
The world was convinced that weapons of mass destruction exsisted in Iraq....if in doubt ask the northern Kurds...you know the ones gassed to death? That one reason alone was enough for me.
Am I the only one who remembers an Iraqi invasion to the south?
Remember the price of oil going through the roof?
Am I the only one who sees a bigger picture here? I know it is political suicide to say we went in to protect the oil fields....cuz we all dont mind paying $3.50+ a gallon. I have reason to believe Saddam would have been leaning on the saudis next just to get the price of oil up.
Think I am wrong??.....hope I am..but if we lose the oil fields......remember this
oif50gunner
Inactive
Get out
This is from a man that was their in the infantry. I am disabled for the rest of my life due to oil. I would go back in a minute if I could not for the cause but for the men that I was with. We need to get out. We are letting our men and women die for no reason. Before we walked in to Iraq
one man ran the hole country. Now we can not run it with 150,000 men on the ground. We had no reason to go in to Iraq in the first place. Not one person that was involved in 9-11 was from Iraq. Da. We have waited to long to try and fix this problem. We need to just get out. No matter what we do now, when we leave they will start killing each other again. They have been doing it since the begining of time. We need to take our troops out of Iraq and send 1/2 of them to find BinLadin.
Mr. Bush has not made the world that we live in better, he has made it worse. Our kids will not live in the world that we knew. That world is gone we now need to protect our selves as a nation. The way that we a streached out, we do not have the means to fight if we where atacked again
the qestion is not IF but WHEN. I do not think that Mr. Bush wants to find BinLadin.
For all of you young men and women that are going to sing up for the military you have my upmost respect. Just remember one thing. This is not a movie you will have friends die. It is a different death than that of canser. You will live with the things that you see over their for the rest of your lives. Be strong god bless you and learn all that you can in training. You will need it. With out people like you this country would not be what it is to day. Thank you.
This is from a man that was their in the infantry. I am disabled for the rest of my life due to oil. I would go back in a minute if I could not for the cause but for the men that I was with. We need to get out. We are letting our men and women die for no reason. Before we walked in to Iraq
one man ran the hole country. Now we can not run it with 150,000 men on the ground. We had no reason to go in to Iraq in the first place. Not one person that was involved in 9-11 was from Iraq. Da. We have waited to long to try and fix this problem. We need to just get out. No matter what we do now, when we leave they will start killing each other again. They have been doing it since the begining of time. We need to take our troops out of Iraq and send 1/2 of them to find BinLadin.
Mr. Bush has not made the world that we live in better, he has made it worse. Our kids will not live in the world that we knew. That world is gone we now need to protect our selves as a nation. The way that we a streached out, we do not have the means to fight if we where atacked again
the qestion is not IF but WHEN. I do not think that Mr. Bush wants to find BinLadin.
For all of you young men and women that are going to sing up for the military you have my upmost respect. Just remember one thing. This is not a movie you will have friends die. It is a different death than that of canser. You will live with the things that you see over their for the rest of your lives. Be strong god bless you and learn all that you can in training. You will need it. With out people like you this country would not be what it is to day. Thank you.
Doug.38PR said:
Anybody wants to be a black man in "Really Good Old Days"?
dixierifleman said:
..........and you are going to do what? if some don't like how things are done and don't move to Canada.
dixierifleman said:
How would it[re-introduction of draft, another word, increasing the supply of recruits by a huge margin] work for you, in matters of bigger sign on bonus?
Don't you think you would get a better opportunity to talk your recruiter into a bigger sign on bonus if the supply of recruits were restricted with the demand for the troops either remaining still or better yet, increasing rapidly, another word, if there were no re-introduction of draft?
dixierifleman said:
Does this mean that your desire for a bigger sign on bonus has something to do with your desire to serve?
hpg said:
Who has decided the way our troops have been made to fight in the past couple of years in Iraq or anywhere for that matter?
...........and why do you think the way our troops have been made to fight in the past couple of years in Iraq or anywhere is not going to enable us to win a victory?
..........and how do you think the way our troops have been made to fight shoud change?
cloudcraft said:
Who gets to decide who is liberal? You?
tony parsley said:
So you think U.S. hasn't been trying to do that already since the Iraq War began?
Trip20 said:
Who is whiney public? American people?
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roy reali said:
G-Cym said:
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.........and did U.S. start off pretty well or VERY badly in the Iraq War?
oneoftwenty7.62 said:
How do you know it is political sucide to say we went in to protect the oil fields?
Or stated in another way:
Why do you think it is an act of political sucide to say we went in to protect the oil fields?
oneoftwenty7.62 said:
You sure about that? You think American public as a collective group all don't mind paying $3.50+ a gallon?
oneoftwenty7.62 said:
Besides, if we all don't mind paying $3.50+ a gallon, then why do you worry about the price of oil going up?
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oneoftwenty7.62
Moderator
Red Grant
Goes to prove I should not post when I am sick in bed with the flu.
Not minding paying $3.50+ a gallon..was meant to be SARCASUM!!
Goes to prove I should not post when I am sick in bed with the flu.
Not minding paying $3.50+ a gallon..was meant to be SARCASUM!!
More troops couldn't hurt but having a draft has its own problems. The army certainly needs to be bigger and we should not be relying on the National Guard and reserve so much. In fact, we should not be sending the National Guard and reserve overseas at all, I think. I suspect we could increase the size of the armed forces without a draft but that may be wishful thinking.
I also think the army, at least, makes some mistakes in its priorities because of the sensitivities to casualties in this country (some other countries also have this sensitivity) that end up being penny wise and pound foolish. In other words, if avoiding casualties and "force protection" are the chief goals, then no other goals will be achieved. Easy to say, though.
By the way, my son is there right now and the way things look, he'll be there another six months. I don't know, sometimes I just think we ought to let North Iraq have South Iraq if it wants it.
Do you realize that about 15 countries have troops in Iraq and that one division commander is Polish? The only casualty suffered by the Black Watch was from Fiji!
I also think the army, at least, makes some mistakes in its priorities because of the sensitivities to casualties in this country (some other countries also have this sensitivity) that end up being penny wise and pound foolish. In other words, if avoiding casualties and "force protection" are the chief goals, then no other goals will be achieved. Easy to say, though.
By the way, my son is there right now and the way things look, he'll be there another six months. I don't know, sometimes I just think we ought to let North Iraq have South Iraq if it wants it.
Do you realize that about 15 countries have troops in Iraq and that one division commander is Polish? The only casualty suffered by the Black Watch was from Fiji!
oneoftwenty7.62 said:
Thanks for clearing it off.
.....and I'm sorry for making you shout while sick in bed.
But what about:
oneoftwenty7.62 said:
?
Why do you think it is political sucide to say we went in to protect the oil fields?
oneoftwenty7.62 said:
Well, you just did, again, didn't you?
I wish I could sing lullabies to you to get back you into sweet dreams.
Please get well.
Just an Opinion
If the major product of the Middle East including Iraq was soy beans we would have never gone or been there.....
The whole of Islam is not worth the life of one American soldier, Marine, Airman, or Sailor........
I respect President Bush but do not agree with all of his policies, which is a normal human characteristic. He was the finest Governor we Texans had in years..........
War is to kill the enemy and destroy property, we should have decimated Iraq, took their oil, and left them to kill off each other. Not play founding Father and rebuild that box of kitty litter.........
We should quit trying to police the world, and eminate the Great Theodore Roosevelt and tend to the problems in this hemisphere like that pelado in
Venzuela and other dangerous leftists.......
Opinions are like hineys, we all have one............
If the major product of the Middle East including Iraq was soy beans we would have never gone or been there.....
The whole of Islam is not worth the life of one American soldier, Marine, Airman, or Sailor........
I respect President Bush but do not agree with all of his policies, which is a normal human characteristic. He was the finest Governor we Texans had in years..........
War is to kill the enemy and destroy property, we should have decimated Iraq, took their oil, and left them to kill off each other. Not play founding Father and rebuild that box of kitty litter.........
We should quit trying to police the world, and eminate the Great Theodore Roosevelt and tend to the problems in this hemisphere like that pelado in
Venzuela and other dangerous leftists.......
Opinions are like hineys, we all have one............
"We can't force these people at the point of a gun to be a democracy"
Nope...but we can abandon them to be wiped out by the next faction to take over
There are a lot of good people over there that trusted us not to cut and run (this time) like last time
They deserve better!
I found it interesting when I heard a correspondent from (I believe) ABC that was reporting in Fort Bragg
He said the troops are generally upbeat about our efforts and very supportive of the administration
Maybe because they have been there and do not rely on the mainstream media for their reporting
Nope...but we can abandon them to be wiped out by the next faction to take over
There are a lot of good people over there that trusted us not to cut and run (this time) like last time
They deserve better!
I found it interesting when I heard a correspondent from (I believe) ABC that was reporting in Fort Bragg
He said the troops are generally upbeat about our efforts and very supportive of the administration
Maybe because they have been there and do not rely on the mainstream media for their reporting
1. Pull out now. There is no achievable victory. You cannot creaet a democracy at gun point and expect it to last.
2. No Draft, Ever. Any nation that cannot muster enough volunteers to exist does not deserve to exist. Period. If we cannot convince enough people to volunteer for duty in Iraq then perhaps it is because enough people do not think it a worthwhile cause. Rather than trying to find ways to force more people into uniform perhaps we should listen to the will of those people. Of course we are not really good at that since the will of the people in Iraq (which we are there to defend I guess...) is that we LEAVE yet we will not do so. The concept of a draft is at its very core immoral. Now if the administration said they needed troops to catch Bin Laden and actually did something to that purpose I bet you would not have a problem getting troops.
2. No Draft, Ever. Any nation that cannot muster enough volunteers to exist does not deserve to exist. Period. If we cannot convince enough people to volunteer for duty in Iraq then perhaps it is because enough people do not think it a worthwhile cause. Rather than trying to find ways to force more people into uniform perhaps we should listen to the will of those people. Of course we are not really good at that since the will of the people in Iraq (which we are there to defend I guess...) is that we LEAVE yet we will not do so. The concept of a draft is at its very core immoral. Now if the administration said they needed troops to catch Bin Laden and actually did something to that purpose I bet you would not have a problem getting troops.
robertbank
New member
"The world was convinced that weapons of mass destruction exsisted in Iraq"
Sadly that is the biggest lie of all just ahead of "well they were there they were moved to Iran, Syria (You chose the country) or "beter to fight them there....".
Old Saddam was one bad dude but El Quida was as much a threat to him as they are to everyone else and he didn't tolerate them anymore than he did anyone else who opposed him. What you are going to end up with in Iraq is either another Saddam or worse and that is the best case scenaro.
Bad enough Bush has run up your national debt to unbelieveable levels but the loss of Americas finest youth for what. Some neo-conservative dream about spreading democracy around the world at gun point. Good luck!
Might have "stayed the course" in Afghanistan where our real enemy had it's base.
As for the troop build up, this isn't about saving the war it is about saving Bush's legacy or whats left of it. For a guy who ducked Vietnam he sure doesn't hesitate to place others in harms way.
May God protect them all.
Take Care
Bob
Sadly that is the biggest lie of all just ahead of "well they were there they were moved to Iran, Syria (You chose the country) or "beter to fight them there....".
Old Saddam was one bad dude but El Quida was as much a threat to him as they are to everyone else and he didn't tolerate them anymore than he did anyone else who opposed him. What you are going to end up with in Iraq is either another Saddam or worse and that is the best case scenaro.
Bad enough Bush has run up your national debt to unbelieveable levels but the loss of Americas finest youth for what. Some neo-conservative dream about spreading democracy around the world at gun point. Good luck!
Might have "stayed the course" in Afghanistan where our real enemy had it's base.
As for the troop build up, this isn't about saving the war it is about saving Bush's legacy or whats left of it. For a guy who ducked Vietnam he sure doesn't hesitate to place others in harms way.
May God protect them all.
Take Care
Bob
FYI, I agreed with going in based on WMDs. I also think Bush is honestly trying to do what he believes is right, spread Democracy. Sadly I think his logic is flawed and doomed to failure. I do respect that the guy is doing what he believes right regardless of what others think but that does not mean I excuse his faulty logic and bad decision making.
Here's an article related to the discussion. Link to full article here:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070112/D8MJEH400.html
Pentagon Abandons Active-Duty Time Limit
Email this Story
Jan 11, 8:46 PM (ET)
By ROBERT BURNS
(AP) Joint Chiefs Chairman, Gen. Peter Pace testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Jan. 11,...
Full Image
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Pentagon has abandoned its limit on the time a citizen-soldier can be required to serve on active duty, officials said Thursday, a major change that reflects an Army stretched thin by longer-than-expected combat in Iraq.
The day after President Bush announced his plan for a deeper U.S. military commitment in Iraq, Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters the change in reserve policy would have been made anyway because active-duty troops already were getting too little time between their combat tours.
The Pentagon also announced it is proposing to Congress that the size of the Army be increased by 65,000, to 547,000 and that the Marine Corps, the smallest of the services, grow by 27,000, to 202,000, over the next five years. No cost estimate was provided, but officials said it would be at least several billion dollars.
Until now, the Pentagon's policy on the Guard or Reserve was that members' cumulative time on active duty for the Iraq or Afghan wars could not exceed 24 months. That cumulative limit is now lifted; the remaining limit is on the length of any single mobilization, which may not exceed 24 consecutive months, Pace said.
In other words, a citizen-soldier could be mobilized for a 24-month stretch in Iraq or Afghanistan, then demobilized and allowed to return to civilian life, only to be mobilized a second time for as much as an additional 24 months. In practice, Pace said, the Pentagon intends to limit all future mobilizations to 12 months
badbob
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070112/D8MJEH400.html
Pentagon Abandons Active-Duty Time Limit
Email this Story
Jan 11, 8:46 PM (ET)
By ROBERT BURNS
(AP) Joint Chiefs Chairman, Gen. Peter Pace testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Jan. 11,...
Full Image
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Pentagon has abandoned its limit on the time a citizen-soldier can be required to serve on active duty, officials said Thursday, a major change that reflects an Army stretched thin by longer-than-expected combat in Iraq.
The day after President Bush announced his plan for a deeper U.S. military commitment in Iraq, Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters the change in reserve policy would have been made anyway because active-duty troops already were getting too little time between their combat tours.
The Pentagon also announced it is proposing to Congress that the size of the Army be increased by 65,000, to 547,000 and that the Marine Corps, the smallest of the services, grow by 27,000, to 202,000, over the next five years. No cost estimate was provided, but officials said it would be at least several billion dollars.
Until now, the Pentagon's policy on the Guard or Reserve was that members' cumulative time on active duty for the Iraq or Afghan wars could not exceed 24 months. That cumulative limit is now lifted; the remaining limit is on the length of any single mobilization, which may not exceed 24 consecutive months, Pace said.
In other words, a citizen-soldier could be mobilized for a 24-month stretch in Iraq or Afghanistan, then demobilized and allowed to return to civilian life, only to be mobilized a second time for as much as an additional 24 months. In practice, Pace said, the Pentagon intends to limit all future mobilizations to 12 months
badbob
So now..those who wish to sign up for the National Guard or Reserve..are for all intents and purposes joining an all active duty army if the fedgov can activate NG and Reserve units without any limitation. And make no mistake..there are enough loopholes in this that there will not be any effective limitation. The fedgov simply has to say that they need the troops..and they WILL be activated much more often than every six years.