more sporting?

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I am pretty much with HogDogs on this. I hunt, and fish, to put meat on the table and in the freezer. Am I successful every time? Yeah, I wish I was!

Although my jeans all come from a thrift shop and my hunting equipment is, for the most part, older than I am, I still consider it a sport. If I won every time, then it would not be a sport to me.

I can afford to buy a lot of things new, but I choose to spend my money on things I want and need. We process our own meat and have no problem putting a patch on our jeans when they need them. I grew up eating a lot of wild game,not because we liked it, but because we had to. Woodchuck and skunk, along with squirrels and rabbits were a steady diet as a youngster.

We all hunt and shoot for different reasons and I do not condemn anyone who likes the sport, unless they waste the meat. This past deer season I found a buck that someone shot and just cut the head off of and left the rest of the carcass there on the ground. I remember when I first came to Missouri, I was living in a trailer park and went to the dumpster. I found a dozen ducks just thrown in there. Not breasted or anything.
 
This is where, to me, folks can worry too much over nit-picky. If you can afford to be on the Internet, you can afford to buy store meat. So, to me, there's subsistence hunting because that's all one can get or afford, and then there's what's called sport hunting for want of any better word.

In subsistence hunting, whatever method works is by definition good. Sport hunting has come to include the concepts of ethics and fair chase and the game laws we hunters as a group have imposed upon ourselves.

Hey, I've killed a bunch of does and eaten a ton of deer meat, mostly because I like to eat deer meat and the does were all over my land. Big deal--not. But I never found that the meat from a buck was bad eating. I'm not just a pretty face; I can cook.

Now, if you first spend the time to check out the bucks in an area, and decide which one is the biggest and go try to find him a second time so you can shoot him, that's a whole different deal. Generally, a big buck only makes one mistake in a season, and your first sight of him just might well have been his only mistake that year. That looks like bringing "challenge" into the equation. :) But it's a voluntarily-imposed challenge.
 
sporting means fair....

SO... if you hunt naked, with just your bare hands and the woodcraft in your head...then yes it'd be sporting... but if you're using camo, gun, stand, optics, scent-blocker, etc etc etc... then its really not fair... About as fair as me getting on a roof-top 400m away from you and waiting for you or your wife or kids to go out to the grocery store, work, playground..whatever and shooting you, your wife or kid... I mean, thats the sum of it right? You get some place before the animal, completely cover yourself so the animal can't see or smell you, and wait. And you place yourself where you know/expect the animal to go. Whoever considers hunting a sport probably considers himself a winner if he raced against a kid in the special olympics and won. Its not a sport. Nor a game.
I'm not some bleeding heart liberal, or some holier-than-though green peace trainee. I enjoy shooting guns and roll-my-own rounds because I enjoy the process and it gets me more involved in shooting. But the only thing I shoot at now is metal targets and 450m+ targets. I have a bow with all the doodads but its because I enjoy shooting, not because I want to extend a hunting season. I don't think I'm better than anyone I just think its stupid calling hunting a sport. It'd be like calling the columbine shooter a sportsman.
I know this post is going to ruffle a few feathers but hey, I don't care.
I'm not saying hunting is wrong, or unethical or anything like that, I'm just saying its not fair. Sport implies a fair chance. The getting on a roof-top line was simply showing that its no more fair to shoot an unsuspecting person doing nothing to hurt anyone than it is to go after a deer. I completely understand that hunting deer is controling the wildlife, providing food...etc etc etc. Its just not sporting or a sport.
 
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About as fair as me getting on a roof-top 400m away from you and waiting for you or your wife or kids to go out to the grocery store, work, playground..whatever and shooting you, your wife or kid... I mean, thats the sum of it right?
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Like----wow.:confused: jd
 
I know of a camp where they all use 223's because it is "sporting". IMO lots of gimmicks or egos involved in "sport hunting".

A person that considers 'sporting' to mean legal and ethical is entitled to such an opinion.
 
More thinking and less emotion and the deal is to avoid squabbles over semantics. That keeps flame wars from starting, and keeps me from closing the thread.

semi_problomatic, you're making the mistake of being all-inclusive in how you're describing hunters. And it's implicit in your commentary that it's somehow unfair for a human to do that which is all well and good for a predator such as a mountain lion. Natural camo is apparently okay, but artificial camo is somehow morally bad. You can't have it both ways and have logical consistency in your argument.
 
JD you'd be very wrong. I'm from the South where hunting is all about how many you kill with how big of a rack etc etc. After I joined the Army and did a couple tours overseas I became disenchanted with hunting and the people who consider it a sport. I'll still kill a deer I just don't consider it a sport. And I'd rather not get up before dawn to freeze in a tree stand either.
Little story, came home for mid-tour leave around late november a couple years back and went with my dad to his hunting camp to hunt. They put me in this stand that looked like a damned deer highway. Mind you I've got a .308 with a 10x scope and they put me in a stand where my farthest shot would be 50-60 ft away. Backside was swamp and front went to the road, left and right was thick brush and the stand was built right on a feed plot. I'd circled the stand to get a lay of the land and found the peanut butter jar lid nailed to a tree with lick screwed into it, a mineral block, and small corn feeder on the backside of the stand, probably about 30ft away. 6 deer came through there, couple doe and a nice 8 pt buck. I didn't shoot a thing. My dad was on another stand probably about a k away and he used his 7mag to pop a 60lb spike on the run that'd got stired up by some dogs from another camp.
 
I mean, thats the sum of it right? You get some place before the animal, completely cover yourself so the animal can't see or smell you, and wait. And you place yourself where you know/expect the animal to go. Whoever considers hunting a sport probably considers himself a winner if he raced against a kid in the special olympics and won. Its not a sport. Nor a game.
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Perhaps you should try hunting out West - or even better, sheep hunting in Alaska - it's a slightly different style than that.
 
:DAh but that was my point in the beginning. IF you hunt like the predators in the wild then sure, it can be a sport. Naked, with only your hands and teeth as weapons. And it is all inclusive to hunters because they are all using weapons, camo, scent blockers, whatever... The deer doesn't have the option to shoot back, or get better camo. :D My point isn't purist or green peace. Its simply that to be a sport it needs to be fair. IE "have a sporting chance". The deer doesn't have a chance, well except from an inept hunter who can't read sign or doesn't understand that deer need to eat, drink, and have shelter and sets their location accordingly. I'm not condemning anyone for hunting. I'm not saying your wrong for hunting. Its just not a sport. Not unless you think like romans and putting unarmed men against lions is also a sport.You wouldn't call the DC shooter a sportsman, would you? If what I'm typing here somehow make a person feel insulted...well its really not my fault.

I'm not trying to insult anyone I'm just saying its not a sport.

"Perhaps you should try hunting out West - or even better, sheep hunting in Alaska - it's a slightly different style than that. "
Oh yeah, don't ya'll chase them with choppers? Please tell me that you chase them naked, with your bare hands... LMAO.
 
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IF you hunt like the predators in the wild then sure, it can be a sport. Naked, with only your hands and teeth as weapons.


I'd say it's sporting if the most common result of the hunt is the game animal getting away. We should also remember that humans aren't the only animals that use tools to pursue game.
 
Well I dunno davlandrum, maybe you're just unlucky... I don't know you or how you hunt. And no I'm not trying to insult anyone. By insinuating that hunting out West some how gives game a better advantage... what was I supposed to do with it? I made it a joke. And people do hunt with choppers in Alaska.
Either way, all I said was that hunting isn't a sport. Does that insult you?If it is then say how. So is there a hunter super bowl? Or is it more like the world series? How do you do a points system? Whose in the lead? Is it like golf or can you do team hunting? Do you get points for style, shot distance or how quick the deer drops? Penalties for un"sportsman"-like conduct? Are game wardens referees or umpires? I've yet to see anyone say it IS a sport. :D

Why do people keep putting predator animals into this? I don't care if chimps use shot-guns on parrots. Chimps don't call it a sport. Yes I understand mountain lion's fur kinda blends in...its not real-tree, and the mountain lion doesn't mount the deer head on the wall or calls it a sport. THE (place animal type here) doesn't kill for fun. (Ok well house-cats do, got it). If it really hurts your feelings that bad that I say hunting isn't a sport and give my reasons why, then just give your reasons why it is a sport. Who knows maybe you'll change my mind.
 
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Seems to me semi that your purpose in this thread is to simply stir something up. I suspect everybody knows what hunting is. I have no idea why it became customary over decades to refer to it as a sport and don't care.
 
Chimps don't call it a sport.

No, they don't call it a sport. Chimps also probably don't spend much time worrying about whether the baboons think what they do is fair or sporting. humans do consider what others think and apply labels. I consider fair chase hunting a sporting activity.

Here are some definitions of "sport"
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sport
1.
a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
b. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
3. An active pastime; recreation.

I'd say that hunting could fall into these categories.
 
JD you'd be very wrong. I'm from the South where hunting is all about how many you kill with how big of a rack etc etc. After I joined the Army and did a couple tours overseas I became disenchanted with hunting and the people who consider it a sport. I'll still kill a deer I just don't consider it a sport. And I'd rather not get up before dawn to freeze in a tree stand either.
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semi problomatic, excuse me if my assumption was wrong. You just didn't sound like someone who had hunted before, and you certainly don't sound like someone who enjoys it; at least by the methods you have used.

I assure you that even in the "The South" there are many SPORTSmen to whom the sport of hunting is not simply about the size of the rack and how many they kill. I don't know how your overseas tours relate to your disenchantment with hunting and the folks who call it sport. I do know that it is possible to encounter idiots and unsportsmanlike individuals almost anywhere, but it needn't sour you on an activity that might offer much enjoyment.

You must realize that you are corresponding on a forum frequented by people who hold hunting very dear to their hearts. You must also realize that by definition, hunting is considered to be a sport in which the successful conclusion SOMETIMES results in the killing of game.

There are a kazillion components which make for a sporting and enjoyable hunt, and freezing your tail off in a stand so that you can kill a buck with a big rack isn't real high on the list for many of us.

I think it would be great if you could someday enjoy and appreciate the sport of hunting; the challenge it can offer, the thrills and surprises, the success and failures, and the honor of doing it well, and sportsmanlike. If you can't ---well, you're not the first. Maybe golf is in your DNA like hunting is in mine. jd
 
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