More Pro-Illegal Doublespeak
- Thread starter Charley
- Start date
Sorry. We are back to hype and scare tactics. Companies managed before the influx of cheap Illegal labor. They can exist without it. Walmart can exist without it, that is for sure. We have a Walmart here in backwoods, WV, and I would like you to come and explain to the employees here that in the not-too-distant future, we will be honored by an Illegal Alien population, and many of them can expect to give their jobs to such individuals...allas for the greater good of Walmart and the greater good of the nation. Otherwise, we can expect to pay $20/tomatoes.
What makes you think it will stop with custodial and farming type jobs? I know construction workers in NC who have had to move into other lines of work because of the Illegal Alien influx there. These were people who Wanted to do the work, but were undercut by Illegals who are willing to do it for $5.00 under the table. This is a capitalist country. Next it will be retail...why pay a cashier $7.00 when Pres. Bush says its okay to hire an Illegal and pay them $4.00? What areas do you see as being immune to this?
If what you are saying is true--that outsourcing our labor is benefical to our economy-- and I don't believe it is, THAT would be the greatest reason for stopping the flood of Illegal Aliens. If we are obliged to prop up our economy artificially by outsourcing our blue collar labor, then our economy is in need of a total overhaul. Yes, by god. Raise the price of tomatoes, if that is what it takes. If you have a four story building that is in need of some structural repairs on the third and fourth floors, you do not attempt to fix it by digging out the foundation. Cheap foriegn labor is chipping away at the foundation of our entire economic structure.
Colorado delegate determined to end illegals aid
By Valerie Richardson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
DENVER — For state Rep. David Schultheis, the choice is clear: The Colorado legislature can pass his bill preventing illegal immigrants from receiving non-emergency state and county services.
Or legislators can watch the proposal ignite an Arizona-style political wildfire as it goes before the voters as a November 2006 ballot initiative.
"The public really wants this," Mr. Schultheis, a Republican who represents northern Colorado Springs, said yesterday. "We are going to do everything we can to get this before the public in some form or another."
It is no accident that his proposal, introduced Friday as House Bill 1271, bears a strong resemblance to Arizona's Proposition 200, the anti-illegal immigration measure that won passage in November after a bruising campaign and despite strong opposition from most of the state's political establishment.
Colorado is widely expected to become the next battleground on the issue, thanks largely to the efforts of Defend Colorado Now, a citizens group busily raising funds and mapping out a strategy for a November 2006 ballot campaign.
William Herron, Defend Colorado Now chairman, says his group will throw its full support behind the Schultheis bill. But even if the bill fails, the debate will be useful in helping the organization prepare for a ballot fight.
Also, legislators who vote against the bill can expect to have the issue raised during their re-election campaigns, he said.
"This is the test. We're taking names on who's naughty and who's nice," Mr. Herron said. "And if they don't pass it, well, woe unto them."
The chances of passage took a hit in November when the Democratic Party took control of both legislative houses. Within 10 minutes of the bill's introduction, Mr. Schultheis said, he had 20 co-sponsors — all Republicans.
"Most of the Democrats, frankly, will be opposed to this," he said. "But I really think the Democratic machine is out of touch with what the citizens want. I think they presume a lot because they have Hispanic support, but I think a lot of Hispanic citizens will be in favor of this."
In response, Mr. Schultheis is trying to bring together as many Republicans as he can. He said he plans to ask Gov. Bill Owens, a Republican, for his support today.
If the bill goes down to defeat, Mr. Schultheis has a backup plan: He can introduce it as a concurrent resolution, which would allow the proposal to win a spot on the 2006 ballot as a referred measure through a majority vote of the legislature.
Even if that tactic fails, he is betting that the publicity surrounding the effort will help whip up popular support for a signature-gathering campaign aimed at placing the proposal on the November 2006 ballot.
"If that doesn't work, I think the level of public disgust will be so high at that point that support is going to be very strong for a ballot measure," Mr. Schultheis said.
He is hoping to win some Democratic support by framing the issue within the context of the state's budget battle. With the state legislators grappling over budget cuts, his bill will "ensure that more citizens and legal immigrants to Colorado have access to state services," as Mr. Schultheis said in a press release accompanying his introduction of the bill on Friday.
"Every dollar of state services that is spent on people who are in the state illegally means one less dollar for the citizens and legal immigrants in Colorado," he said.
The bill includes a provision that would require those seeking state services to prove their citizenship or residency status. State agencies would maintain copies of those records, which ideally would act as a deterrent for those trying to win services illegally.
Critics say such proposals are shortsighted, arguing that cutting access to health care and education wouldn't stop undocumented workers from crossing the border, but would increase the public health risk and keep illegals mired in poverty.
Even so, polls show most voters would support cutting off services as a way to discourage illegal immigration. A survey taken in Mr. Schultheis' district found that 86 percent of respondents agreed: "Only legal residents of Colorado should be allowed to receive benefits and services funded with tax dollars."
By Valerie Richardson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
DENVER — For state Rep. David Schultheis, the choice is clear: The Colorado legislature can pass his bill preventing illegal immigrants from receiving non-emergency state and county services.
Or legislators can watch the proposal ignite an Arizona-style political wildfire as it goes before the voters as a November 2006 ballot initiative.
"The public really wants this," Mr. Schultheis, a Republican who represents northern Colorado Springs, said yesterday. "We are going to do everything we can to get this before the public in some form or another."
It is no accident that his proposal, introduced Friday as House Bill 1271, bears a strong resemblance to Arizona's Proposition 200, the anti-illegal immigration measure that won passage in November after a bruising campaign and despite strong opposition from most of the state's political establishment.
Colorado is widely expected to become the next battleground on the issue, thanks largely to the efforts of Defend Colorado Now, a citizens group busily raising funds and mapping out a strategy for a November 2006 ballot campaign.
William Herron, Defend Colorado Now chairman, says his group will throw its full support behind the Schultheis bill. But even if the bill fails, the debate will be useful in helping the organization prepare for a ballot fight.
Also, legislators who vote against the bill can expect to have the issue raised during their re-election campaigns, he said.
"This is the test. We're taking names on who's naughty and who's nice," Mr. Herron said. "And if they don't pass it, well, woe unto them."
The chances of passage took a hit in November when the Democratic Party took control of both legislative houses. Within 10 minutes of the bill's introduction, Mr. Schultheis said, he had 20 co-sponsors — all Republicans.
"Most of the Democrats, frankly, will be opposed to this," he said. "But I really think the Democratic machine is out of touch with what the citizens want. I think they presume a lot because they have Hispanic support, but I think a lot of Hispanic citizens will be in favor of this."
In response, Mr. Schultheis is trying to bring together as many Republicans as he can. He said he plans to ask Gov. Bill Owens, a Republican, for his support today.
If the bill goes down to defeat, Mr. Schultheis has a backup plan: He can introduce it as a concurrent resolution, which would allow the proposal to win a spot on the 2006 ballot as a referred measure through a majority vote of the legislature.
Even if that tactic fails, he is betting that the publicity surrounding the effort will help whip up popular support for a signature-gathering campaign aimed at placing the proposal on the November 2006 ballot.
"If that doesn't work, I think the level of public disgust will be so high at that point that support is going to be very strong for a ballot measure," Mr. Schultheis said.
He is hoping to win some Democratic support by framing the issue within the context of the state's budget battle. With the state legislators grappling over budget cuts, his bill will "ensure that more citizens and legal immigrants to Colorado have access to state services," as Mr. Schultheis said in a press release accompanying his introduction of the bill on Friday.
"Every dollar of state services that is spent on people who are in the state illegally means one less dollar for the citizens and legal immigrants in Colorado," he said.
The bill includes a provision that would require those seeking state services to prove their citizenship or residency status. State agencies would maintain copies of those records, which ideally would act as a deterrent for those trying to win services illegally.
Critics say such proposals are shortsighted, arguing that cutting access to health care and education wouldn't stop undocumented workers from crossing the border, but would increase the public health risk and keep illegals mired in poverty.
Even so, polls show most voters would support cutting off services as a way to discourage illegal immigration. A survey taken in Mr. Schultheis' district found that 86 percent of respondents agreed: "Only legal residents of Colorado should be allowed to receive benefits and services funded with tax dollars."
shootinstudent
New member
Charley,
Alright, you do recognize that illegals work for lower wages, and that there are lots of illegals working in the U.S. Now, imagine this: All of them disappear, and the workers that replace them make at least three times as much.
What happens to the costs the companies employing those people incur? And what happens when costs to companies increase dramatically?
You're not talking about a five cent increase on the price of a tomato. You're talking about major price increases across the board, and significant shortages on top of it.
Alright, you do recognize that illegals work for lower wages, and that there are lots of illegals working in the U.S. Now, imagine this: All of them disappear, and the workers that replace them make at least three times as much.
What happens to the costs the companies employing those people incur? And what happens when costs to companies increase dramatically?
You're not talking about a five cent increase on the price of a tomato. You're talking about major price increases across the board, and significant shortages on top of it.
Tough question, what happens when you export all manufactturing jobs to
third world countries and import under educated people from those same countries.?? In your question you feel prices go up, in my question wages
go down, sort of a dilemma.
A country that feels it must import slave labor to survive will not make it
anyway, may as well turn off the lights and close the doors, perhaps that
may be the idea.
Dido on Wingman's post. Couldn't have said it better myself.
You say tomato...I say the security and future of the country. If companies go under, they go under. If the price of a tomato rises to $4.00 a piece, so be it. It may hurt, but at that point we can look around and see what we are really dealing with economically, rather than floating by on a false sense of economic security due to outsourced labor.
Sometimes I think the best thing that could happen to this country is for an invisible dome to be magically dropped over the top of us. No contact at all with the outside world. Just for a decade or two...just long enough that we would be forced to once again produce, manufacter and maintain what we need. This country is rich in resources, both material and in people, and yet, as Wingman aluded to, we have allowed nearly all production to be outsourced and are in the process of outsourcing what is left of our internal blue collar jobs. It is incredible. But then, I guess all great nations have come and gone throughout history. Most of the time their demise comes from within. Why should we be any different?
Before you blast me for revealing a very isolationist attitude, let me add that the unrealistic "dream of the gaint dome" comes mostly from desperation, associated with the disappointment of what we, as Americans, have allowed to happen to ourselves, more than out of any grudge against other peoples.
But I am getting slightly off subject...less about the Illegal Alien Crisis, and more about the crisis of American thought and historical lack of foresight...
You say tomato...I say the security and future of the country. If companies go under, they go under. If the price of a tomato rises to $4.00 a piece, so be it. It may hurt, but at that point we can look around and see what we are really dealing with economically, rather than floating by on a false sense of economic security due to outsourced labor.
Sometimes I think the best thing that could happen to this country is for an invisible dome to be magically dropped over the top of us. No contact at all with the outside world. Just for a decade or two...just long enough that we would be forced to once again produce, manufacter and maintain what we need. This country is rich in resources, both material and in people, and yet, as Wingman aluded to, we have allowed nearly all production to be outsourced and are in the process of outsourcing what is left of our internal blue collar jobs. It is incredible. But then, I guess all great nations have come and gone throughout history. Most of the time their demise comes from within. Why should we be any different?
Before you blast me for revealing a very isolationist attitude, let me add that the unrealistic "dream of the gaint dome" comes mostly from desperation, associated with the disappointment of what we, as Americans, have allowed to happen to ourselves, more than out of any grudge against other peoples.
But I am getting slightly off subject...less about the Illegal Alien Crisis, and more about the crisis of American thought and historical lack of foresight...
Factor in the ancillary costs provided by public services--medical, education, welfare, crime, et al.--and you are not talking cheap tomatoes or cheap anything. That is a myth. The average family is paying, when you add in taxes, full pop for all the "cheap" benefits supposedly provided by illegal immigration. Another myth is that illegals are confined to only a few sectors of labor; that is less true all the time. Look at the future.
Stevemc1979
Inactive
Save money, Get averyone from all of the pro-gun boards, or anyone else who agrees with protecting our borders to volunteer. Saves money and good hunting practice.
Methinks maybe Shootingstudent ought to spend some time living close to the Mexican Border as some of us do. 
Maybe then he would not be as tolerant of these illegals coming into our country. Last year, the Border patrol in the Tucson sector arrested more than 600,000 illegal aliens during their attempts to get into the U.S. I shoot with some of the BP agents at the range where I shoot. I hear things that the liberal bleeding heart media don't tell the public. BP agents are now getting shot at from across the border, probably in an attempt to drive them from the area in order to allow drug smugglers to cross in relative safety. The BP agents cannot shoot back because the fire is coming from the Mexican side of the line. I'm talking full auto fire, not just occasional pot shots.
It's not just Hispanics sneaking across. something the media won't tell is there have been a few people of Arabic descent apprehended as well.
People living within a few miles of the border are constantly robbed, harassed by illegal crossers, and apparently have no rights to protection from out government. The fact of the matter is, there is so much of this crime that law enforcment just cannot handle it.
My BP buddy said that as many of these illegals that we catch, it's only a drop in the bucket, and we cannot stem the flow.
Paul B.
Maybe then he would not be as tolerant of these illegals coming into our country. Last year, the Border patrol in the Tucson sector arrested more than 600,000 illegal aliens during their attempts to get into the U.S. I shoot with some of the BP agents at the range where I shoot. I hear things that the liberal bleeding heart media don't tell the public. BP agents are now getting shot at from across the border, probably in an attempt to drive them from the area in order to allow drug smugglers to cross in relative safety. The BP agents cannot shoot back because the fire is coming from the Mexican side of the line. I'm talking full auto fire, not just occasional pot shots.It's not just Hispanics sneaking across. something the media won't tell is there have been a few people of Arabic descent apprehended as well.
People living within a few miles of the border are constantly robbed, harassed by illegal crossers, and apparently have no rights to protection from out government. The fact of the matter is, there is so much of this crime that law enforcment just cannot handle it.
My BP buddy said that as many of these illegals that we catch, it's only a drop in the bucket, and we cannot stem the flow.
Paul B.
shootinstudent
New member
Yeah, I grew up in rural california and I now live in Texas. I'm right here with you, seeing just what you do.
accordingtome
New member
As a Warehouse manager i would bemaking a ton of $$ if not for all the illegals that work here. Super cheap labor is a poison. I work with them, there my friends, but if i could call a number and have them dragged back to mexico i would do it in a second. No hard feelings ya know. But the law is the law. Once you have an open border .. think of everyone who will swarm this country.. from all the other countries.. hmm china, europe, africa.. man think of all the people in other countries that would love to come here and eat some of that goverment cash cow. its just sad. 