More on the Steyr Scout...

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MAD DOG

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Rich Lucibella just sent me the bolt of his Scout for modifications that will hopefully allow it to fire ALL ammo, and be at least a little smoother on cocking once the spring is set up to the required tension.
Lots of polishing of internals, and a redo of the bolt handle itself to give greater length and leverage with a truncated cone type knob instead of the poorly finished, grotesque butter knife handle it sports now.

The problems stem from Steyr's pathetic fit and finish of the primarily cast parts of the bolt components, as well as the too short bolt handle. It is now clear that Steyr spent NO extra money on fit and finish of these critical components. Quite cheesy, really.
Shame on them.

The cast parts are mostly left in the "as cast" condition, and a lot of these areas are bearing surfaces. The porous, rough finish is a terrible bearing surface, and will require a lot of careful polishing to render them smooth enough to be considered adequate. The porous finish of the stainless steel parts is also a great way to encourage galling and corrosion. Not what you want in your ultimate "utility rifle" for reliability's sake anyway...
All of the little pits on the parts are already full of red oxides, and this ain't good.
I have recommended hard chroming the parts after they are polished to render the surfaces hard and abrasion resistant, while increasing their corrosion resistance.

If you doubt me, take apart your Scout bolt, and look at the components with a loupe. You will see what I mean.

It would appear that the en masse solution is for the bolt components to be electro polished and hardchromed, and the bolt handles to be modified or replaced with a longer knob as I am doing for Rich.
Don't bet on Steyr picking up the ball on this, they won't even admit that there is a problem with their little Vundergunn.

Perhaps I will start a Scout refurbishing side business...
 
Thanks for the interesting info, Mad Dog.
Its the first serious criticism I have seen on the Steyer Scout. Its good to keep in mind, along with potential solutions.
I am not sure what the problem is with firing all ammo. Do I remember some posts about getting ignition failures with some brands of ammo? Does it just need more spring tension? Is this easy to correct?
I am much interested in the Steyer Scout, because it is a new idea, which doesn't happen very often in the world of rifles. I have withheld judgement so far, as I have never been able to handle and shoot one of these yet.
Little technical problems can be fixed if they are recognized and admitted. I'd like to experience how the scout hefts and points.
 
Conceptually, the rifle is really neat. It is Steyr's shoddy execution of the concept that is so poor.

"Little" technical difficulties like failure to fire and galling of critical parts are not little problems. They are BIG problems that should have been addressed BEFORE the product went to market, and failing that, they should be addressed by the manufacturuer once they are found.

Unfortunately, the expense of doing the required mods is considerable, and very time consuming if done on an individual basis.
The best answer is to do the "en masse" solution that I presented above, but that would require Steyr or a well funded aftermarket manufacturer to really get behind the fix.
 
How dare you criticize the Steyr Scout! It costs big bucks, has a great mystique, and has been promoted by the greatest gun guru the world has ever known. How dare you!

How, with all this going for it, can you even consider suggesting that the Scout is not absolute perfection?

Why, pretty soon someone might suggest that there are dozens of rifles, as cheap as $75, that will do the same job. You might even get people to thinking that the whole "scout rifle" idea is hyped up nonsense by an egoistical gunzine guru. Why, some folks might even figure out that any old '98 Mauser or Lee-Enfield would be more rugged and more reliable, and lots cheaper. Some people might even want to look at something like the Remington Model 7 if they want a new gun. But I am appalled that you could even think the Steyr Scout could have defects.

Jim
 
Here we go again. Scout envy. If you are happy with your $75 rifle and it has all the features of the Steyr then I am happy for you. Man I am really stupid for buying the $2000 piece of crap. I could have bought 26.666666666 Mausers or Enfields. You guys are so brilliant. Where were you when I needed you? I think I'm getting the hang of things.....If you can't afford an expensive rifle make sure you criticize it. Hey I just remembered my old model 94 that I got for $50 dollars that will do what a mauser or enfield will do at only two-thirds the cost. Whoooppppeeeee!!!!!! Now I'm smart too.
 
I don't think that's it's entirely a question of affording it or not being able to afford it that determines the quality of this rifle. I've always been a great fan of the Cooper, and tended to agree with his pistol commentary. I came very close to ordering a scout when they first came out. (Money is no object for me). When I first encountered one I must admit I was more than a little disappointed. What turned me off most was the flimsy construction of the integral bi-pod. I mean I was embarassed for the Colonel. I thought to myself, if I was the final arbiter of what gets released in my name, this rifle would not be it. The concept is great, but it can't successfully be all things to all people, and not look like it was designed by a committee.
Granted, I've never fired one, so maybe some mystical experience occurs when you do.
I do know that if I took a Mauser action, attached a high quality .308 barrel, forward mounted scope, I'd have about 85% of the concept down with a time proven weapon.

I think my old Remington 788 in 308, with 18" barrel was years ahead of it's time.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What turned me off most was the flimsy construction of the integral bi-pod.[/quote]

I really don't understand why people are so fixated on the construction of the bi-pod. It wasn't designed to be a Parker-Hale but rather one that would be readily and instantaineously available for the, what... 3-5% of shooting situations where one could use a bi-pod.

@ 3-5% you don't need a heavily constructed weighty bi-pod. Other then that it make probably the best rifle rest I've ever seen.

------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited April 23, 2000).]
 
I have completed the mods on the Lucibella Bolt.
It is now longer and has much better ergonomics than it did previously.
It has been dehorned and reprofiled to allow for the lengthening and addition of the new bolt knob.
The truncated cone steel bolt knob is nice looking, and alows nearly 7/8" more usable leverage than the "Steyr Tactical Scout" bolt handle.

I also polished all of the internal bearing surfaces, which reduced drag considerably.
I believe that the bolt will function more smoothly now, even with the increased spring tension necessary for hard military primers.


[This message has been edited by MAD DOG (edited April 24, 2000).]
 
Hi, M16,

I don't think envy is the point. I could easily afford $2000 for a rifle (and I have bought a few for close to that), but I still think the Scout is a rifle looking for a reason for being. It sells mainly because of the catchy name (who doesn't want to think of himself as a "scout"?) and the gunzine hype.

This is not to say that one should not buy it if it takes one's fancy. It is to say, still, that $2000+ is a lot to spend on a rifle that does nothing that far cheaper rifles will not do as well or better. (And with fewer tears when they get dropped onto a rock.)

Jim
 
the problem with simply increasing the tension is that the original bolt handle and the short rotation of the bolt combine to make a heavier spring tension unbearably hard on the user.
The heavier spring makes throwing the bolt and chambering another round quickly and smoothly with the rifle in the firing position almost impossible with the original design.

Last week, Rich L. worked out what needed to be done, serious polishing and a redesign of the bolt handle to match the excellent handle on the Steyr Tactical rifles (basically the same bolt, with a different handle).

Thankfully, Mad Dog stepped up and volunteered (insisted?) to do the modifications in his typically excellent way.

We probably won't know if it works or not for several weeks, but as soon as we hear that it does, I'll be begging MD to fix mine!


------------------
-Essayons
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Uh, pardon my ignorance, but what's a "loupe"?[/quote]

Hehehe... ask ANY woman!
 
A "jeweler's loupe" is a small, powerful magnifier used by jewelers, gunsmiths, and prosective brides to ascertain surface quality, imperfections, and other such data during inspection of gems, parts, etc.
The focal length is very short due to their relatively high power and small lenses.

Mine is a nine power version, which used to be the columnating lens from a defunct rifle scope.
I buy old fubar scopes and binos at the fleamarket, and cannibalize them for the lenses. The eyepiece, objective, and columnating lens sets all make handy magnifiers around the shop, and cost a lot less than buying the spendy stuff sold to jewelers and hobbyists.
One set of binos will render four great magnifiers, and two cool prisms for the kids to play with. A scope of the el cheapo 3-9X type gives a marvelously nice and very cheap loupe, as well as a couple of nice magnifiers. This whole set gives you a lot of flexibility in parts inspection and other shop tasks. If one gets roached, it's no biggy, 'cause they were CHEAP!
the funny thing is, the cheap but excellent lenses from the scopes float around the shop for years with nary a problem, but a nice loupe by B&L seems to last about a week before some idiot manages to fill it with epoxy, drop it on a rock, or otherwise ruin it.
Go figure.
 
Oh, and another thing...
I didn't volunteer for this thankless job. As usual, I got roped into it by the fast talking, highly lubricious Lucibella.

The conversation started like this:
Rich: Hey Mad Dog, I finally figured out how to fix the Scout...
Mad Dog: Er, Let me guess... Replace the action with a model 70?
Rich: very funny, but No, it will need a longer bolt to begin with....

One moment I was giving him free advice on what his local gunsmith should do to the damned thing, and the next thing I know, it shows up here for ME to do the work. URRRGHH
That's how it seemed, anyway.
It is still unclear to me when I actually stated that I would do this, but it is a "fait accompli" nevertheless.
Talking to Rich always leaves me felling like I just bought a bridge, and will really like it when it is delivered.

A word of warning to all gunsmiths out there: NEVER talk to Rich about fixing badly designed guns unless you REALLY want to get involved in his latest obsessive compulsive nightmare.
biggrin.gif


OK. I had fun doing the job, once I got over the initial terror of perhaps ruining his only Scout Bolt just before he is supposed to go to Africa with it.
It finally dawned on me that if he couldn't take the Plasti-Scout Tuppergun, he would have to take the LURCR, which works now AND needs no further mods to continue working with all sorts of ammo, has controlled feed, real optics, low light capability, a durable stock, stainless steel construction, 3/8 minute accuracy...
I wonder if it is too late to get that bolt back from UPS... I might be doing him a favor if I lost it.
biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by MAD DOG (edited April 24, 2000).]
 
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