More BATF BS!!!!

dern right oldphart.....

biggest joke in our country is our 'war' on drugs...

are we all blind or is this not just a repeat of prohibition?

legalize and tax the hell out of these drugs... if you are adicted then get help from the government...

too may folks on both sides of the fence on drugs rely on continueing this war for a paycheck.


One other point... Everybody assumes these guns were going to drug dealers in Mexico. What if they were ment for regular, honest Mexican citizens who just wanted to protect themselves from both the drug dealers and crooked government?
 
I don't see how any of you can justify those actions. Its criminals like her that cause the rest of us legitmate gun owners (and I'm a Federal LEO too) to suffer from needless over-regulation.
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Questioning the actions and motives of the ATF individuals in this instance does NOT mean that we are justifying the actions of the suspect. There are many cases were both parties are wrong, and this may be one of them? It's a naive oversimplification to cast every conflict as good vs. evil.

In this instance, you don't have to harken back to Waco and Ruby Ridge to find questionable words and actions by the Phoenix ATF office...it's the SAME INDIVIDUALS who masterminded the Cavalry Arms debacle, who are spamming the internet with politically charged, self serving press releases and videos spearheading new gun control legislation. Not years ago, but in the present tense.

This article reads more like a press release than a true news article. Here's another one from the anti-gun SF Chronicle, which goes beyond the single truck incident in Phoenix, includes all the political overtones that concern me:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/16/MNIA128E0D.DTL

To those who have applauded the Phoenix ATF office: Do you favor new restrictions requiring reporting of multiple rifle purchases? Restrictions on certain weapons like the FN 5.7, .50 Cal, AK pattern rifles? Do you favor abolition of gun shows, and private transfers? Forfeiture of property without explanation, charges, or trial?

Well, these are the agendas that Phoenix ATF agents Mangan, Newell, and Hoover are pushing. Take the time to read their press releases, watch their videos. You WILL see new legislation springing forth from all this "IRON RIVER" international smuggling hyperbole. That is the real issue here.

Take the blinders off.
 
I think very few people other than criminals owned them. I have no hard numbers on that (nobody has any numbers to refute my position either) but common sense tells me that FA weapons would not have been a choice for civilians then because of the cost and that impracticality for civilian use.
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Be careful how you use "common sense" as its tainted by pereceptions. The actual cost of an NFA weapon was and is not much different than most other weapons. It's only been since '68 and '86 that prices have skyrocketed for foreign and domestic fully automatic weapons, respectively.

You have to register them and possess a license to drive them. Also, your insurance will charge you more to own them. All rights in the COTUS are limited and none are absolute.
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You have to register and obtain a license to drive vehicles on public roads. Vehicles which will not be driven on public roads do not require registration nor do the drivers require licenses. So, to use your analogy, I should be free to own and operate a fully functional M2HB and (assuming local laws allow shooting) plink with it in my backyard without any interference or prior approval from the gov't as long as I don't fire it on the public areas.
 
There is a very basic point here that no one seems to have addressed. If I may, I'd like to lead the forum to it...biggest joke in our country is our 'war' on drugs...
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Off topic and I won't get into that debate as I think legalizing drugs is about as stupid as using them. I would start another thread on that.

Be careful how you use "common sense" as its tainted by pereceptions.
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Perhaps. I don't have hard numbers about civilian ownership of full auto weapons. But, neither do you as they didn't measure it. I have read that Thompson tried to market its subgun to farmers and they didn't do well. So, all I have to look at is the culture of hunting and self defense as I know it from my relatives and others I knew who lived then. From that I believe that very very few law abiding citizens owned FA weapons prior to the 1934 NFA. I think if they had been a lot of those owners there would have been a lot more protest against the law. I think the argument is spurious.

The actual cost of an NFA weapon was and is not much different than most other weapons.
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Much more expensive to shoot though.

So, to use your analogy, I should be free to own and operate a fully functional M2HB and (assuming local laws allow shooting) plink with it in my backyard without any interference or prior approval from the gov't as long as I don't fire it on the public areas.
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You can do all of that now except for the plinking part. However, comparing cars to guns is apples and oranges and we have a lot of threads about that and it is off topic.
 
While one can make "apples to oranges" comparisons, should the thread turn into a discussion about those things, then as TG has noted, it would be off topic. Just so you know.
 
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