More BATF BS

BigFunWMU

New member
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2006/03/batf-jihad-against-custom-gunsmths.html

It appears that apparently to thumb their noses at the current Congressional inquiry into BATF abuses, BATF have launched and initiative aimed custom gunsmithing in America.

This sounds like a government agency that is much to well funded, has too much time, and is looking for things to do. How about we get congress to cut their funding to a level that will sustain proper operation, but can this fishing crap.
 
A6) Does the GCA control the sale of firearms parts? [Back]


No, except that frames or receivers of firearms are "firearms" as defined in the law and subject to the same controls as complete firearms. Silencer parts are also firearms under the GCA, as well as under the National Firearms Act (NFA). Certain machinegun parts, such as conversion parts or kits, are also subject to the NFA.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a6

(A7) Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? [Back]


With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a nonlicensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms.
However, a person is prohibited from making a semiautomatic assault weapon or assembling a nonsporting semiautomatic rifle or nonsporting shotgun from
imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be
approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a federal or state agency. [18 U. S. C. 922( o), (r), (v), and 923, 27 CFR 178.39, 178.40, 178.41 and 179.105]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a7

(I1) Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms? [Back]

Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer. [27 CFR 178.11]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#i1

27 CFR 178.11
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/...ccess.gpo.gov/cfr_2001/aprqtr/27cfr178.11.htm

Definition of a gunsmith:

(d) Gunsmith. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to
engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with
the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such a term shall
not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms or who
occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to
firearms;

Definition of Firearm Manufacturer

(a) Manufacturer of firearms. A person who
devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a
regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of
livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms
manufactured;



So based on all this stuff...

A gunsmith, who practices a trade of customizing arms, needs a license to be a gunsmith. However according to ATF regs, he is not a manufacturer of firearms, and would not need the license.

Also according to the ATF, the part of the gun that is classified and serial numbered is the FRAME. That is the only part that is regulated in transfer. Some combinations of parts hooked to the thing can create problems, but the frame is legally considered the firearm.

Based on that, even a gunsmith that would purchase a bare frame and build up a custom gun from there, would still just be a gunsmith.
 
Could swapping uppers on a AR-15 from 5.56mm to .50 BMg be construed as manufacturing?

Changing out the barrel on my p-229 from .357 to .40?

If so, than this is attrocious!

But before I get my knickers in a twist, I shall need a little bit more confirmation.
 
What about modifying my Saiga to pistol grip configuration? Adjusting the bolt weight on my Hi-Point? Changing trigger parts on my 10/22?

The BATF needs to get it's head straight (Like that would happen.:rolleyes: ) The "firearm" is the frame or reciever. Unless you are making a NEW reciever they need to go do something anatomically impossible.:mad:
 
Thats the kind of stuff they seem to be looking for now in gunsmith shops, and calling it manufacturing.

The other thing that would make sense for them to be after is kit guns. Things like a build-it-yourself AR-15 kit, as those are pretty popular these days. The reciever still must be registered, and is transfered as a gun.

If they are saying that building on a frame (registered as a firearm) is manufacturing a firearm; then that frame alone must not be a firearm. By that standard we should be able to order all the frames we want in the mail, and not have to do transfers for them. No paperwork would be required until we built them into a complete firearm.
 
Frankly, I don't know what to make of this story. It seems like it is from a credible source, but....

Nothing is posted on the NRA, GOA, or SAF web sites about it and I just spent about 20 minutes looking over the BATF's website, and found nothing in their "rules", "proposed rules" or March 2006 newsletter that would indicate that the definition of "manufacturing a firearm" has been changed in any way.

Anyone been able to verify this report?
 
Some of the details have changed, as the blog site has been updated.

Unfortunately, this new info only muddies the water even further.

BTW, no word yet from the NRA.
 
If you look at the web site of just about anyone who sells parts, they say that the frame is an FFL part. A gunsmith who purchases frames must do so from either another FFL, or be one himself. A gunsmith who receives frames, or weapons, from out-of-state customers, should also be an FFL, as this is the only way that a person can ship firearms interstate.

I'm not quite sure if the BATFE is attempting to streamline dealings with a Gunsmith, or if some beauracrat is pushing his/her own agenda.
 
Keep this stuff in mind if you ever feel like bitchin at me because under certain circs we collect (not charge, collect!) FET.

Keep this crap in mind when I make smarmy and bitter comments in threads that complain about gunshops or talk about how basement buddies can get stuff at 5% over cost, or when I rag on folks who intentionally or unintentionally break stupid laws that I am day to day responsible to comply with so me and my homies can get paid every week

WildburiedinpaperAlaska
 
OK... I just called the NRA-ILA, and the girl I spoke with had not heard anything about this case or about any BATF rule changes.

I don't know what that is worth however, because she didn't seem to truly grasp what I was explaining to her, and she transfered me to the voice mail of "the person who handles these things."

Maybe a few of us can contact the NRA & hopefully get to the bottom of what's going on here?
 
Posted over at TheHighRoad.org...

Dear Forum Members:

Please regard this as an unofficial notice, but I thought I could help clear up what’s going on.

The Firearms and Ammunition Excise Tax (FAET) is a tax imposed by Chapter 32 of the Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. 4181) on the sale of firearms and ammunition by manufacturers, producers, and importers. The present situation has arisen due to a possible misinterpretation of the term “manufactured” by the ATF. It has been difficult in the past for gunsmiths to determine exactly which services performed by gunsmiths were “manufacturing” and thus subject to FAET. Generally, gunsmiths are not subject to the FAET, unless the gunsmith has title to the firearm and his work materially changes the firearm so that a different taxable article results. See Rev. Rulings 58-586, 64-202 and 69-325.

Which specific acts (mounting a scope, re-stocking, checkering, engraving, etc.) count as “manufacturing” has been difficult to determine and inconsistently applied by ATF in the past.

To address this problem, on October 1, 2005, 26 U.S.C. Section 4182 was amended to also exempt any pistol, revolver, or firearm from FAET if it was manufactured, produced or imported by a person who manufactures, produces or imports less than an aggregate of 50 such articles during the calendar year. This allows gunsmiths to operate (for fewer than 50 guns per year) without worry that a particular act would be considered “manufacture” or not.

The 50 guns per year change, however, is not retroactive (despite our efforts to make it so). Recently gunsmiths have been aggressively investigated by ATF, and their back records examined for FAET compliance. This investigation is legal and proper, however, there is concern that ATF is again misinterpreting “manufacture” and including transactions under FAET that should properly be excluded.

Larry Crow, owner of Competitive Edge Gunworks and member of the American Pistolsmith Guild, is currently being charged as liable for taxes and penalties for the “manufacture” of firearms; Mr. Crow questions the validity of ATF’s determination that he manufactured the firearms. In meetings and discussions with the ATF and IRS beginning 24 January 2006, Mr. Crow has been unable to get a direct and consistent answer regarding both ATF and IRS policy.

The National Rifle Association is in contact with Mr. Crow and others in the gunsmithing community, and is actively exploring both regulatory and legal remedies for this situation. This situation is, however, one which may not lend itself to a quick or easy fix, as it involves statutes, regulatory rulings, and policy decisions at the intersection of two separate federal agencies.

I assure you that the National Rifle Association will make the most efficient use of its resources, with the goal of protecting the civil rights of Americans, as the Framers sought to protect those rights under the Constitution. We will provide updated information on our website as further significant details or activities become known.

Thank you for your continued support.

-Eric Swartz
Office of Legislative Counsel
National Rifle Association – Institute for Legislative Action
 
I met Larry Crow while I was at the hospital with the girlfriend last week... Seems the general gist of what they're doing is claiming that anything that increases the VALUE of the firearm is "manufacturing." They're also going after engravers, etc., etc.

He's stilll at it...
 
Rangemonroe and Crosshair - no, I don't think you fit either "gunsmith" or "manufacturer" under their rules. Both those mention "business, livelihood" and "profit" and specifically eliminates folks who "occasionally" do work on firearms.

I probably missing something, but I don't see anything new here or something to get worried about. Didn't we expect a better BATFE under Bush and the Republicans we elected to Congress? Did we get it?
 
At the same time, I don't think we would have gotten a better BATF under either Gore or Kerry...

Just remember, folks... vote for anyone but a republican, because they're eeeevil....

Now, back to the subject at hand...

I need to change the barrel on a target rifle. Doing so will increase its value. To protect myself, I'm gonna run down to the local F-troop office, and get a letter saying that I can do this. I suggest that ALL OF YOU do the same thing.

It's called activism. Activism isn't sitting on the internet bitching about kneejerk legislation. It's doing something.
 
To protect myself, I'm gonna run down to the local F-troop office, and get a letter saying that I can do this.
1) It's a federal agency, like the IRS: Good luck getting an Opinion Letter before the fact.
2) It's a federal agency, like the IRS: Good luck getting an Opinion Letter before the fact that binds them after the fact.
3) It's a federal agency, like the IRS: Go to three different offices; you may well get four differing opinions, none of which will be binding.

;)
Rich
 
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