Money woes, Sherrifs laid off, and armed citizen partols

[DMZX]

What is all the fuss about?

This is how Josephine County got to where they are:

In the past, counties were paid a percent of the timber receipts from timber sales on federal lands. This money was usually used for schools and roads. It was significant $$'s in counties where a there was lots of fed timber to be harvested.

Well, due to the Spotted Owl habitat court fights in the late 80's and early 90's, those fed dollars went away, as very few board feet of timber was being harvested due to court injunctions and such. Timber jobs dried up, mills closed, hard-times for those small towns in the PNW.

So, he Clinton Admin' came up with a Spotted Owl plan that included paying counties impacted by the loss of fed timber $$'s, funds straight out of the treasury to soften the impact. There was a sundown date when those $$'s would go away.

But, after the sundown date was reached, congress kept extending it in each fiscal years budget for a variety of political reasons.

Finally, it was taken out of the budget leaving many counties in the PNW with budget shortfalls. They had to make up the difference by shifting funds or asking the voters for additional revenues with bond measures.

Many voters said no to higher property taxes mostly due to the poor economy.

The county I live in floated two public safety bonds in May this year, both of which failed by a large majority. A big reason for that, and I suspect, this happened in Josephine County, was that the majority of people live in incorporated areas where they have municipal police forces. Those people are not willing to pay for additional deputies for the unincorporated parts of the county.

But, also, rural Oregonians are very independent and tend to mistrust government be it municipal/county/state/federal. They tend to take care of their own problems in there own way.

When I read the news article about armed citizen groups in Josephine County, I kind of shrugged thinking nothing really new, they are just better organized now. I think it only raised eyebrows of those who do not live in or know nothing about the people who live, in rural Oregon.

 

[fuhr52]

Government owns most of the timber land in rural Oregon and they don't pay property taxes thus no revenue. No logging on government land, no timber receipts. again no revenue. Not enough private land logging to make up the difference.

 

[NWPilgrim]

On another forum a poster says he lives in that county and is close friends with the sheriff. This is not new, the funds and cuts and watch program have been in ace for 2-3 years. There are a few former LEOs in the watch program and the sheriff assists them. These are not vigilantes, they are responsible citizens.

Due to the large federal land holdings the population is very dispersed. Even with the federal subsidy it took 70 min response. Now it is 3-4 hours or never. Most of the population is clustered in the city of Grants Pass which has its own pice force.

It is the county commissioners yammering for more money. The sheriff would like to be able to handle more prisoners in the jail but he is fine with the citizen help.

I guess some people can actually live responsibly on their own without authorities watching over them. Gun owners even. Imagine that.

 

[manta49]

I guess some people can actually live responsibly on their own without authorities watching over them. Gun owners even. Imagine that

How do these people investigate crimes rapes murders etc. If all they are doing is watching their neighbours properties and watching for suspicious behaviour and then ringing the police, do we not all do that anyway. The police get paid to do a job if someone wants to help outside the normal coperation people give to the police then join the police. The thought of some one taking it upon themselves to set themselves up as some neighbourhood watch would worry me. Who and what gives them the authority to question someone about anything. I know I would be telling them to mind their own business and where to go.

But, also, rural Oregonians are very independent and tend to mistrust government be it municipal/county/state/federal. They tend to take care of their own problems in there own way.

What ways do they deal with their own problems.

Manta49 talks the truth where "Neighbourhood Watch" provided their own equipment on patrol including hammers for the hands and Black & Decker drills for the knees. In some cases they were protecting the neighbourhood and in others protecting the rackets they were also running.

And if people think similar couldent happen in America they are kidding themselves.

 

[Ben Towe]

How do these people investigate crimes rapes murders etc. If all they are doing is watching their neighbours properties and watching for suspicious behaviour and then ringing the police, do we not all do that anyway. The police get paid to do a job if someone wants to help outside the normal coperation people give to the police then join the police. The thought of some one taking it upon themselves to set themselves up as some neighbourhood watch would worry me. Who and what gives them the authority to question someone about anything. I know I would be telling them to mind their own business and where to go.

Major crimes (rape, murder, etc.) in rural areas is generally handled by the state police or state bureau of investigation. Local authorities may assist, but rural police forces don't have the resources to investigate major crimes properly, even without major budget cuts.

If these groups are being backed by the sheriff, then they may have been deputized. Even if they aren't deputized then they could still act as agents of the police in some matters (take a statement on a minor crime, do checks on businesses and churches at night, do patrols...), they just wouldn't have arrest powers.

 

[Uncle Buck]

In 2012 the county had an estimated population of 82930, in 34373 households. Split evenly, 7.5 million comes out to $90.44 per person or $218.20 per household. Alternatively, $7.54 per person per month, or $18.19 per household per month. Basically, even a minimum wage worker is only giving up one hour of wages per month for police coverage. A pretty good deal, I think.

Outcast pretty much summed it up, only the property owners would pay. Maybe it would be different if it was a sales tax issue, but even when sales tax issues are on the ballot, lately they have mostly been voted down here in Missouri.

Here is a table I found online about property ownership in Josephine County Oregon: http://www.co.josephine.or.us/Page.asp?NavID=1610

In 2012 the county had an estimated population of 82930, in 34373 households. Split evenly, 7.5 million comes out to $90.44 per person or $218.20 per household. Alternatively, $7.54 per person per month, or $18.19 per household per month.

Not sure how to do the math, but divided something from the quote above to the link I provided should give you a rough idea of how many property owners are actually available to pay the taxes. (I think, I have a migraine from Hades and thinking hurts!) I can not find the actual number of property owners in Josephine County, and remember, not every property owner is taxed at the same rate.


The government, be it federal, state or local, acquiring property takes that property off of the tax roles. Even if it is only taxed at agricultural prices, it can be a significant drop in revenue.

I have seen neighborhood watch programs work really well and have read about ones that were disastrous. I wish these folk well and hope they work together and succeed.