Gaseous my comment certainly applies to our politics, but it goes well beyond that. We have reached a place where unless a person thinks, acts, or believes as we think they should, they are somehow the enemy. Yes, Amsdorf there are times when men and nations have to act to protect themselves and those who can't; we do have legitimate enemies. We live in free country though, and I have the right to disagree with you, and would defend your right to believe whatever you want to believe. Whether I'm right or not is usually not the issue. It is my willingness to allow you to believe what you want whether I like it or not.
Moment of Sadness Today
- Thread starter Amsdorf
- Start date
Of course you have every right to disagree with me and on silly stuff such as this conversation, there is absolutely no "right" or "wrong" as one of our esteemed moderators rightly pointed out.
I do however reject the notion that there is never a time when we must assert that some are right and some are wrong.
This is not one of those times debating if it is "wrong" to do what you want to do with your spent brass.
I do however reject the notion that there is never a time when we must assert that some are right and some are wrong.
This is not one of those times debating if it is "wrong" to do what you want to do with your spent brass.
Well, K-Mac, our behavior such as you describe started in 1776. If you didn't like the way the revolution was headed, you were in for a tough time. Lots of folks left. Same way at the time of the Civil War. When has it been different?
There have also been plenty of times when people did not necessarily feel the way they were supposed to be feeling, like during wartime. There was no general animosity against the Germans before WWII, as best as I can tell. Of course, Americans really aren't that great at hating other people. That is, people in other countries. We save our fear and hatred for our fellow citizens. We aren't pure enough in any sense of the word, nor are we exceptional. That's not to say we aren't different.
There is both a lot of group-think and wildly independent thinking here (including on this forum), although independent thinking carries considerable risk (including on this forum). It is a rich mixture. But one way to get a good crop is to use lots of manure.
There have also been plenty of times when people did not necessarily feel the way they were supposed to be feeling, like during wartime. There was no general animosity against the Germans before WWII, as best as I can tell. Of course, Americans really aren't that great at hating other people. That is, people in other countries. We save our fear and hatred for our fellow citizens. We aren't pure enough in any sense of the word, nor are we exceptional. That's not to say we aren't different.
There is both a lot of group-think and wildly independent thinking here (including on this forum), although independent thinking carries considerable risk (including on this forum). It is a rich mixture. But one way to get a good crop is to use lots of manure.
zincwarrior
New member
Agreed. In our neighborhood we're on "generation three" or the new wave of kids growing up. I would never let them touch a firearm, and would have gone off if a neighbor had done so for my kids. I'm not a spring chicken and never remember anyone who weren't active family friends that would have done such.
zincwarrior
New member
If you were a nighbor of mine and let them play with a rifle without getting permission from me or the wife, the best option for you is that we would have words at about 90 decibels.
Most likely I would call the police on you.
zincwarrior
New member
Exactly.
gaseousclay
New member
I wasn't saying you condemned citizens today. I was just pointing out that there are those that still cling to old prejudices in the gun community with regard to those countries. for example, there are some that refuse to buy a Miroku made firearm because they're made in Japan. I have nothing against this company and I think they make quality guns. If US made guns are your thing then great, but I don't think I should be criticized for owning a Miroku made Winchester 94.
Likewise, I could make the same argument about sunglasses (or any product for that matter). Luxoticca in Italy practically owns every major sunglasses brand in the world, from Oakley, Ray-Ban and Mosley Tribes to Maui Jim, Ralph Lauren, Coach and Brooks Brothers. A lot of these sunglasses are by American companies but they're owned and manufactured by an Italian company. Italy as you remember was a fascist country between the first and second world war. now, if I were to show economic patriotism I wouldn't buy any of these brands. But then again, most product on the shelves are made overseas, including the clothes we wear as well as consumer electronics. sorry for the tangent but you get the idea
dieselbeef
New member
dang..idk..id have just handed it to em and let em check it out. i dont think id have even give it a thought to be honest...but everyone we know is on a cattle ranch or shoots already so i guess its diff here.
id have handed it to em and let em play with it..
id have handed it to em and let em play with it..
Sorry, I don't see the harm in letting a kid hold a piece of machined wood and metal. I would have showed them how to check that it was unloaded then let them hold it.
Any further proceedings or escalation from there would be up to their parents. Wouldn't be the first time I've been yelled at, cussed at, or shot at.
What would you expect the police to do?
Their is no law against letting a child hold a knife, snake, gun, drill, circular saw, etc.
If I got the call I would be telling you to keep your kid in your own yard if you didn't like what he was doing over at the neighbor's.
Any further proceedings or escalation from there would be up to their parents. Wouldn't be the first time I've been yelled at, cussed at, or shot at.
zincwarrior said:
What would you expect the police to do?
Their is no law against letting a child hold a knife, snake, gun, drill, circular saw, etc.
If I got the call I would be telling you to keep your kid in your own yard if you didn't like what he was doing over at the neighbor's.
Amsdorf, you did the right thing. And, this is nothing to be sad about!
I was that little boy once upon a time. Came from a family that wasn't exactly anti-gun, but mom and dad never had any guns. Well, my neighbor was an avid hunter and when he was cleaning his guns, or shooting moccasins down by the lake I was curious and he would show me his rifles - might have even let me handle one once.
Now, I am a gun owner, shooter, occasional hunter - not necessarily because of my neighbor (I was always interested in guns); but I still fondly remember my neighbor, Mr. Downing, who would take time to let me look at his guns and even take time out to show me a few things about archery.
I was that little boy once upon a time. Came from a family that wasn't exactly anti-gun, but mom and dad never had any guns. Well, my neighbor was an avid hunter and when he was cleaning his guns, or shooting moccasins down by the lake I was curious and he would show me his rifles - might have even let me handle one once.
Now, I am a gun owner, shooter, occasional hunter - not necessarily because of my neighbor (I was always interested in guns); but I still fondly remember my neighbor, Mr. Downing, who would take time to let me look at his guns and even take time out to show me a few things about archery.
zincwarrior
New member
I would not make that assumption.
Are you their parents? NO
Are you a relative? NO
Are you now the potential target of an investigation into why you're letting children play with firearms? YES.
The call would be "man waiving a gun around children."
The call might be "dead man formerly with gun around children," depending on the circumstances.
It sounds extreme - you betcha. I'm their parent and you (the hypothetic example, not you the poster) are now a potential threat.
You're making this sound like its no problem but I can think of all kinds of shades of bad resulting from it. The OP did the exact correct thing, and should do nothing else except with the express approval of the parent.
Ok, make up your mind what you're going to call in about. If you're not going to truthfully report that "my neighbor let my kid touch a gun in the neighbor's back yard" then you might as well make it interesting and claim he was also naked at the time (either your kid or the neighbor, whichever floats your boat). Then your neighbor can claim that the kid was trespassing and trying to steal the gun.
In that case there will be a half-assed investigation consisting of questioning everyone involved and trying to sort out all the lies and he-said she-saids. Between you claiming the neighbor was waving his gun around and the neighbor claiming that your kid either was trying to steal the gun or the kid ran to his house for protection because you were beating the kid, I'll probably end up issuing you both citations.
Depending on the circumstances, it could also well be "dead parent was threatening neighbor".
Your choice.
SerenityNetworks
New member
I'm not sure about that. History does have the tendency to repeat itself - even within a few generations.
NRA Life Member
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"There are some ideas so preposterous that only an intellectual will believe them." - Malcolm Muggeridge
zincwarrior
New member
Its an easy thing. Taken from a third party we have some guyw aving a rifle around and letting children play with it. You're going to get a hard look at, at least in my area. Especially when its the scared to death mom calling.
Unloaded rifle vs. parent saving his kid with armed one, nope, not really.
EDIT:Understand I'm not thinking like this is kindly Uncle Bob the Korean War vet showing the kids family heirlooms. I'm seeing a stranger waving a rifle around my kids (I assume young kids, vs. the teenage giants I have now).
Its all perspective.
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Go out on a few calls sometimes. Many departments have a "citizen's watch" program where they will let you do a ride along with your local PD or sheriff. It'll probably take about an hour into the shift before you figure out that there is no "easy thing". You'll learn pretty quickly what every cop knows - there are two sides to every story, and that the truth is somewhere in between.
Your call of a scared to death mom claiming that someone is waving a gun will definitely get some attention. Once the neighbor explains what happened and the kids tell their side of the story, i.e., he was cleaning the gun and they wanted to touch it, he wasn't waving the gun around, the mom never saw the gun, etc, then the most that will likely happen is that you will be told to keep your kids out of the neighbor's yard. Of course, you can make up any lies that make you feel better and the neighbor can too. In that case the outcome will depend on who is the better liar.
If you don't want your kids touching guns then you should try taking a little responsibility for their upbringing. 10 years old is plenty old enough for you to teach them not to touch a gun and to leave the area unless you are there, not to get in a car with a nice man with some candy, etc.
Not brain surgery or anything.
Too, doesn't just apply to guns.
Just a matter of common courtesy from one parent to another and knowing, rather then assuming our boundaries with other peoples children. And when there is any doubt as to those boundaries, be an adult and stop to find out boundaries first before proceeding. To overstep those boundaries is wrong whether done intentionally or not.
Maybe I let my kids do or get around things you don't let your kids partake in. If your kids are at my house and my kids or I are doing something that I'm in question of you allowing your kid to do, I'm the adult at my house and am responsible for finding out from you whether your kid is allowed to do so and so. As a parent, I don't feel that's to much to ask of a responsible neighbor.
When I was young, our family did a lot of bow shooting in the back yard. With seven kids, the chance of a neighbor kid being at our house 24/7 was pretty much the same as daylight coming in the morning in Ohio.
When shooting, there where many non-negotiable rules with severe consequences from management(dad and mom) but two where at the top of the list:
1).No shooting without adult supervision.
2)No friends shooting until mom or dad cleared it with the parents.
The instructions to us kids were, "don't even ask till permission was recv'd from parents . Period "!
I don't ever recall a parent not letting their kid shoot but do recall listening to conversations in which the called/informed parent appreciated the courtesy shown.
Too, doesn't just apply to guns.
Just a matter of common courtesy from one parent to another and knowing, rather then assuming our boundaries with other peoples children. And when there is any doubt as to those boundaries, be an adult and stop to find out boundaries first before proceeding. To overstep those boundaries is wrong whether done intentionally or not.
Maybe I let my kids do or get around things you don't let your kids partake in. If your kids are at my house and my kids or I are doing something that I'm in question of you allowing your kid to do, I'm the adult at my house and am responsible for finding out from you whether your kid is allowed to do so and so. As a parent, I don't feel that's to much to ask of a responsible neighbor.
When I was young, our family did a lot of bow shooting in the back yard. With seven kids, the chance of a neighbor kid being at our house 24/7 was pretty much the same as daylight coming in the morning in Ohio.
When shooting, there where many non-negotiable rules with severe consequences from management(dad and mom) but two where at the top of the list:
1).No shooting without adult supervision.
2)No friends shooting until mom or dad cleared it with the parents.
The instructions to us kids were, "don't even ask till permission was recv'd from parents . Period "!
I don't ever recall a parent not letting their kid shoot but do recall listening to conversations in which the called/informed parent appreciated the courtesy shown.
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zincwarrior
New member
There you go, thats what I'm really saying.
Edward429451
Moderator
Now hold on a minute, nowhere did I say that he should have let the kids handle the rifle without permission. I said I agreed he did the right thing because the parents weren't there. I said he should be neighborly and go talk to the parents instead of hiding in the closet, lol.
Perhaps you should go read my posts again if you're confused about my position.
FoghornLeghorn
New member
You have no idea. And therein lies the tragedy.