Modified triggers and self defense
- Thread starter Roland Thunder
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I read far too many "hair trigger" cases in lawschool to ever consider carrying a handgun with any sort of trigger modification. Ye olde "hair trigger" is deeply rooted in American law as a very bad thing, every lawer was probably forced to read about them at some point and they would be a very odd duck indeed not to use it against you.
If it looks bad, it is bad.
If it looks bad, it is bad.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
I'm not giving legal advice, but I am commenting on legal issues with respect to which training, education and experience in law and the way the legal system works is relevant.WVsig said:
Marty Hayes isn't giving legal advice here, either. Yet Marty is a lawyer, and head of the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network; he's also an expert defense witness for SD shootings. And Marty has recommended against very light triggers, too.
For that matter, while no lawyers are giving "legal advice" in the forum, have ANY (verifiable) lawyers said light triggers should pose no problem?
For that matter, while no lawyers are giving "legal advice" in the forum, have ANY (verifiable) lawyers said light triggers should pose no problem?
Spats McGee
Administrator
Not that I recall. We (the lawyers) all seem to agree that, at the very least, light triggers have the potential to significantly complicate a shooter's life. Naturally, if I've overlooked a contrary opinion from any of the lawyers out there, I gladly invite correction.MLeake said:
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Unfortunately, as we have said a zillion times, the DA, the judge and jury decide if you followed the laws. You don't make that final decision.
That's why - you need to be aware of such in your preparation. For the zillionth time.
You may think you followed the law and then you are convicted at worst case. Or even if not found guilty you have spend a fortune and are stressed out.
Why don't people don't get that point? It's rather easy.
That's why - you need to be aware of such in your preparation. For the zillionth time.
You may think you followed the law and then you are convicted at worst case. Or even if not found guilty you have spend a fortune and are stressed out.
Why don't people don't get that point? It's rather easy.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
The funny thing is that a lot of folks spend an awful lot of time and energy on the mechanical aspects -- are Speer Gold Dots better than Golden Sabers; should I buy a Kydex holster or a leather one; etc. -- all to prepare for a violent confrontation that is statistically very unlikely. But a lot of folks don't seem interested in bothering about preparation for the legal aftermath that is sure to follow any violent confrontation.Glenn E. Meyer said:
The mechanics are just more fun, I guess.
OldMarksman
Staff
I should think that the collective wisdom of the armorers, shooting instructors, human factors specialists, attorneys, and other experts that has been brought to bear on this subject by police departments throughout the country would mean something to those self proclaimed experts who have no direct access to such expertise.
Double action revolvers that cannot be cocked, semiautomatic pistols with long D/A only (or functionally equivalent) triggers with specified pull weights and S/A autos with safeties and certain minimum pull weights, were and are carried for good reason.
Lest someone who confuses slow fire group size on a bullseye target with combat shooting effectiveness contend that such firearms are not sufficiently effective, I have seen police shooters hit steel plates consistently very fast with their issue weapons--and some can hit those plates at fifty feet, shooting from the weak hand while holding the gun upside down.
Double action revolvers that cannot be cocked, semiautomatic pistols with long D/A only (or functionally equivalent) triggers with specified pull weights and S/A autos with safeties and certain minimum pull weights, were and are carried for good reason.
Lest someone who confuses slow fire group size on a bullseye target with combat shooting effectiveness contend that such firearms are not sufficiently effective, I have seen police shooters hit steel plates consistently very fast with their issue weapons--and some can hit those plates at fifty feet, shooting from the weak hand while holding the gun upside down.
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What is the standard for a "decent service trigger?" What exactly is a "service trigger," anyhow? What about the shooter having been in IDPA? Couldn't the proverbial "overzealous prosecutor" use that against you? What about the use of +p ammo? Same legal theory? What about taking courses from guys like Ayoob? Couldn't that be used against you? What about being a member of the NRA? I guess that prosecutor would jump all over that? What about the number of times you've visited shooting ranges? Couldn't that be used against you?
I'll take my chances with carrying a G26 with a 3.5# connector and polished innards. If I need some legal advice, I really do get it from real lawyers. Have a lot of friends who are Superior Court Judges and District Attorneys. They're always happy to give me advice on matters like this.
The fact is, if I have to use a firearm in a case of s.d. in my local jurisdiction, I really don't believe I'll have any legal problems, whether I shoot behind my back, aiming with a mirror, or have an 8oz trigger on my firearm. On-the-other-hand, if the same event happened in an urban area, then I'd have to employ the best lawyer I could find.
So far, so good. No s.d. events in my life. I carry daily. I don't look for trouble. However, "things" are getting worse and worse by the day. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see some kind of major general insurrection in response, for example, to an outcome in the Zimmerman case that's contrary to the folks who are threatening violence, riots, etc.
I would truly like to see any cases that hinged primarily on the use of a modified weapon in an otherwise legitimate case of s.d. If anybody could provide such information, I'd certainly appreciate it. I don't think such a case exists, but I've certainly been wrong before!
I'll take my chances with carrying a G26 with a 3.5# connector and polished innards. If I need some legal advice, I really do get it from real lawyers. Have a lot of friends who are Superior Court Judges and District Attorneys. They're always happy to give me advice on matters like this.
The fact is, if I have to use a firearm in a case of s.d. in my local jurisdiction, I really don't believe I'll have any legal problems, whether I shoot behind my back, aiming with a mirror, or have an 8oz trigger on my firearm. On-the-other-hand, if the same event happened in an urban area, then I'd have to employ the best lawyer I could find.
So far, so good. No s.d. events in my life. I carry daily. I don't look for trouble. However, "things" are getting worse and worse by the day. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see some kind of major general insurrection in response, for example, to an outcome in the Zimmerman case that's contrary to the folks who are threatening violence, riots, etc.
I would truly like to see any cases that hinged primarily on the use of a modified weapon in an otherwise legitimate case of s.d. If anybody could provide such information, I'd certainly appreciate it. I don't think such a case exists, but I've certainly been wrong before!
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Glenn E. Meyer
New member
You've missed the major points of the discussion.
Your use of perjorative term violates our rules and is not permissible.
Spouting off cliches and arguments that have been countered many times is not really useful.
Your use of perjorative term violates our rules and is not permissible.
Spouting off cliches and arguments that have been countered many times is not really useful.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
And now seems a good time to end this. For anyone who is interested, the subject has been discussed at length here and on other boards. Rehashing things yet again won't help.
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