Model 700 Complaint

M

mathman

New member
Don't get me wrong...I love my LTR...but I have a complaint that I don't hear much about. The only thing that bugs the heck out of me is the fact that when the gun is on "safe", the bolt can still be opened. This isn't much of a concern when "shooting", but it is a PITA when hunting.

Seems that this is a "pro" for the control feed design since it has the 3 position safety. Am I making something out of nothing or are there others who feel the same way?
 
I'm pretty certain that was a design change in the late 80's or early 90's. Not exactly sure of the time frame, but you used to not be able to open the action with the gun on safe. It is my understanding that was deemed a safety hazard since you couldn't unload the rifle without first taking the safety off.
 
They used to be the other way but people Killed themselves and others with them . The number one safety rule is muzzle control , and not everyone adheres to it. A lady in Montana managed to shoot and kill her young son by manipulating her rifle so that it was pointing at the camper that the lad was sleeping in While she was supposedly loading or unloading it . They got a big settlement from Remington , so they tried to make them a little more foolproof ! Only in America !
 
Although rare there are documented cases of Remingtons firing when the safety is moved to the fire position even if you are not touching the trigger. This has happened several times when people were unloading their rifles. Changing the safety was Remingtons answer to the lawsuits. Now it is possible to unload while the rifle is still on safe.

I'm not trying to run Remington down. I own one and have had had several in the past. Would buy another if I saw something I wanted. But the Remington safety and trigger issues are a concern to think about.

I prefer some type of 3 position safety, but it is not a deal breaker if I like the rifle otherwise.
 
Sorry, I don't get it - you do not want to be able to leave it on safe when unloading it?

it is a PITA when hunting.
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Can someone explain this to me? Not the PITA, I know what that means. But how would this be a PITA? I just don't get it....
 
Sure, I'll explain. :) I would like to have it on safe when unloading...but I would also like to have the option of locking the bolt. So, I guess you can say that I prefer some type of 3 position safety. It is a PITA to me that your bolt could be knocked open when going through thick brush and the like.

Thanks for the info about CRF...I thought all CRF had the 3 position safety. I know Winchester and Ruger does.
 
I wouldn't go so far as to call it a PITA, but with the new Remingtons the bolt doesn't lock down when on safe. The bolt has been known to open while carrying and dump the round out of your chamber.

As far as I know the newer Remingtons are the only rifle that does this. Most if not all other 2 position safety's lock the bolt down. The 3 positions are the best in theory because they allow you to lock the bolt down, and to unload while the gun is still on safe.

If you are anal about safe gun handling any will work. Even on the older rifles, if the gun were to fire when the safety is released there should be no injuries if proper muzzle control is observed.
 
If you are anal about safe gun handling any will work. Even on the older rifles, if the gun were to fire when the safety is released there should be no injuries if proper muzzle control is observed.
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Right...and this is exactly why I would prefer the two position safety to lock the bolt when on 'safe'. It's nice to have the 3 position safety, but like you said, if proper safety rules are followed, it doesn't matter.
 
Here's my take on it:

There you are hunting; as you approach the point where you want to be ready you chamber a round. A nice buck pops up and turns back to stare at you for perhaps 3 seconds. You have him dead to rights in a easy 50 yard shot. But by the time you realize that the safety's on, your buck is gone. You hear deer snorting loudly in the woods to warn their friends. You hunt the rest of the day and see nothing but tracks. That night in your sleeping bag you relive the experience in your dreams. For the rest of your life you have recurrent nightmares of a gun that won't go bang. In the morning your trigger finger aches from clenching it all night long. And it serves you right: You richly deserve this for buying a Remington 700 when could just as well have bought a Model 70 Winchester! :D Poor miserable wretch! When you come to your senses, trade up to a Winchester. And when you do, remember this: Use the safety in two positions only. You unload though the floorplate. The middle position on the safety is for field stripping to clean the bolt and firing pin. Get in the habit of using it full forward to fire and full rearward as safely locked only. Go thou swiftly and redeem thyself from this curse.;)
 
Pathfinder45,

I appreciate the response and although I know you meant to be somewhat humorous (which you were), I am very seriously going to do just that. I just need to decide whether to buy a new Winchester or a Ruger Hawkeye. I have heard good things about both...I like the Ruger even though I swore I would never buy another after having a rifle that would not shoot better than 4 MOA at 100 yards. The new Winchester Featherweight is also nice.

Decisions, decisions...
 
I don't like it either. I've had to sling my rifle to use both hands negotiating through brush, etc, only to find the bolt opened after un-slinging. I figure I'm smart enough to safely unload my rifle with or without a safety.

However, it was a decision made so we just have to deal with it. Or trade in on an older model.
 
There are reasons why the Winchester costs more.

It's because it is more. And what could be better than a new Winchester? Why, an old Winchester, of course. Mine is the Model 70 Classic Sporter; but my brother happened upon a late 40's model 70. That thing is a masterpiece. Get one like that and you'll never go back.
 
I've found my R-700 opened a few times and have even lost the chambered round. This is a PITA and I like the W-70, 3-position safety much more for this reason. Hit your back or some brush and you may not have a chambered round anymore. I haven't missed any game due to this but, it could happen.
 
Mine from the early 70s locks the bolt. personally, as for the thing accidentally firing when I take it off of safety to unload it, I just make certain that it is pointed at someone I really hate before I do so.
 
No free lunch

Both kinds have potential drawbacks.

OK, bolt opens when going through brush?
Pay more attention to your rifle handling.

Risk of firing when loading/unloading?
Same answer.

Oddly enough, one of the least liked things of the classic Model 70 design, for some folks is the safety. Apparently, some folks experienced the safety getting moved to the middle position (on safe) while working the bolt after firing, and lost game/got put at risk, because the rifle was on safe when they chambered the next round.

Now, I do not know how they might have done this, but enough seperate anecdotes exists that I don't find it difficult to believe that it could have happened to some folks, sometime. And the answer to this problem is the same as it is to the others ones. Pay more attention to your rifle handling.

Interestingly enough, I have never heard of a Mauser style wing safety getting knocked from off to on. However, I have personally seen people carry the gun with the safety on (middle position - wing straight up) and have it knocked off!
 
thick stuff

When I go through thick stuff, my rifle is in my hand(s). I can't imagine moving through cover w/ a rifle slung on my back or over my shoulder, the bbl snagging every limb and bramble in the county! If that is the case, I'm not surprised that people are getting their rifles unbolted and be unawares. On top of that, cover is where I find deer. As my late favorite Uncle said, "You won't kill a lot of deer that way" (no rifle available)

My sling is for open country, after dark, before light, dragging one out, etc. If I'm hunting, often times, especially in cover, I remove it. My rifle is in my hands and I keep track of its condition.
 
When I go through thick stuff, my rifle is in my hand(s). I can't imagine moving through cover w/ a rifle slung on my back or over my shoulder, the bbl snagging every limb and bramble in the county! If that is the case, I'm not surprised that people are getting their rifles unbolted and be unawares. On top of that, cover is where I find deer. As my late favorite Uncle said, "You won't kill a lot of deer that way" (no rifle available)

My sling is for open country, after dark, before light, dragging one out, etc. If I'm hunting, often times, especially in cover, I remove it. My rifle is in my hands and I keep track of its condition.
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Come hunt with me in Montana. You'll see why sometimes you have to use your hands to climb up out of river bottoms or brushy hillsides. You gotta get from point "A" to point "B" some way....
 
I like slings too......

......but I'd be leery about having my rifle slung over my shoulder and through the brush with a loaded chamber. Especially if it was one of your Remingtons. Like bamaranger said, carry the rifle. And if you need to sling it, do so with an empty chamber, full magazine, striker down, and safety off. That way it's ready to be cycled and fired in a hurry with no interference from the safety. Having the striker down will keep the bolt closed if your rifle is a cock-on opening rifle as is typical of most bolt action sporters.
 
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