Mod 98

Jason_alex

Inactive
Hey guys,

Im new to the form and thought I would say "Hello"

My grand father just gave me a Mod 98 and I was hopping some one could help me find some more information on it such. Also where buy buys scopes scope mounts and finishing tips.

The only thing that I need to finish the rifle is sand down the stock as it is rough and has never been finished and mount a scope. I will post some pictures later tonight of the rifle.

Thanks,
Jason
 
What Model 98 is it? Which manufacturer? How original is it?

Some wartime 98s in unissued condition and papers can bring $1000+ from a collector.

It would be a shame to turn a collectible rifle into a $150 bubba job.
 
First of all, I'd like to say welcome to the forum.

That said... I assume your rifle is a Mauser Model 98, yes? If so, and if it's in its original military configuration, I strongly encourage you to STOP right where you are, take a deep breath, and think things over before you touch the rifle. So many Model 98s have been modified from their original configuration- "sporterized" in gun slang- that original unmolested examples have become quite valuable.

If the rifle is original and you want a cheap gun to take hunting, you should be able to sell it and raise more than enough money to buy a brand-new quality bolt rifle that will outshoot it.

If the rifle is original and you want a project gun to play around with, you should be able to sell it and raise more than enough money to buy a cheap already-sporterized M98 at a gun show and have plenty of leftover funds to get your project started.

That said, if the rifle is already modified, Brownell's sells all sorts of parts for M98s. Good luck!
 
Don't ****ing touch it. Sell it to someone who can appreciate a historical rifle before you go bubba it into another fudd's wet dream.


Make NO permanent modifications to historical firearms. So few exist in correct condition these days because dumb fudds take them and ruin them because they're too dumb and cheap to just buy a modern hunting rifle to go plop their ass down on a shooting bench once a year.

I want to throw a baby into a meat grinder every time I hear about people destroying the history of old rifles.



Please, take several in-focus photos of it and post them here. Those of us with C&R licenses would be more than happy to buy it off of you if it's historical but you just want something it can't be without damaging its value.
 
Sorry for not being clearer, it is not the full rifle, it is a aftermarket stock with a different barrel since about 1945 it is just the action and trigger guard. I do wish it was all original but it is not. I was not given to opportunity to have it original handing in a glass above my fireplace.

Here is the only photo i have of it nexted to the other mod 98 already as you guys call it "sporterized" AKA destroyed

Markings on top are byf right under it is has a 42.
 

Attachments

  • mod98 action.jpg
    mod98 action.jpg
    241.8 KB · Views: 181
Last edited:
Welcome J_A,

Tough crowd, huh!
Destroyed? I'd say you've got the makings for a fine 98 sporter that will give years of service.

You probably know that 'byf' was Mauser/Oberndorf's mid war assigned code for all of their military production and the '42' being the year of manufacture.

The main plant complex was located near the French/Swiss borders and just did not receive the heavy bombings due to the lack of other high priority targets in the area. As a result, Mauser was the largest of all 98k makers. The plant remained largely intact when the French moved in post war.

Carguy is right about Brownell's. You might find lower prices, but Brownell's is the best because they sell the best.

It was very thoughtful of your grandfather to pass it down to you. It will probably increase in value to you as you grow older.

I own a great big pile of guns including the display I put up for Vets at our local gun shows, but I would dump 'em all before I got rid of the J.C. Higgins bolt action shotgun I was given by my father. It means more to me than any dollar value.

Just a few thoughts on 'bubba'.

After the war ended, many thousands of returned vets found themselves without rifles to go hunting. Civilian production of both rifles and ammunition to a lesser extent was severely limited for years after the war ended and those being made represented a much bigger bite of the paycheck than today.

There were no barrels of Mausers, Springfields, and Enfields and it would be five years before they started to appear as surplus.

Returning G.I.'s no longer wanted to hunt with the guns they had left behind. Many had seen first hand the accuracy of the 98's.
It was only logical that many vets turned to gunsmiths for a practical way to have a bolt action sporterized.
Some of our legendary gunsmiths got their start building these 'bubba' rifles.

I agree that it is not practical or economical to sporterize a straight military rifle today. But cut 'bubba' some slack. He did win the war for us and earned the right to do as he pleased with his war trophy.

Now get to sanding, JT
 

Attachments

  • display 2010 4.jpg
    display 2010 4.jpg
    105.6 KB · Views: 71
The old 98 has been around for a long time. It is definately the most copied design in bolt action. After WWII, they were cheap and easy to come by. Many 1000's of them were sold here. Keep in mind that some of the finest custom rifles were built off of this action.

In todays market, it is cheaper to buy a new rifle than it is to customize an old Mauser. However if you want a custom rifle bulit then the 98 is still a great way to go.

You can usually find an old "bubba" 98 without having to pay a lot and depending what was done can determine just how much you would have to add to have a true custom. Aftermarket parts are still very easy to come by and relativly inexpensive.

Have your rifle checked over by a good smith to see if it sound.
 
Yea, what makes me sicker is the fact that my grand father had about 98 Mauser 98's and he dissembled all of them and decided to put barrel on with 5 rifling instead of 2 is what my grandpa said :(... then again he use to do work for the army and made hardness testers and automatic loading machines before the war and made several other creations for the US army for the war.

Any way what type of finish would you put on the stock a true-oil or polyurethane The local gunsmith has check it out and told me to put polyurethane on it but i checked on line and saw that mainly true-oil was used on stocks?

Would a Mauser action make a nice long range rifle or should i go with something else?

Could you guys help me ID a few other guns for the safe, there is one that is in completely ****e condition but it looks old. its a double barrel with caps and a push rod looks like its 3x older than the other older guns.
 
Last edited:
The 113 year old Mauser action has several limitations that more modern actions don't have.

  1. The metallurgy is archaic using a soft steel that has been surface hardened using a carburization process. Metallurgy when Paul Mauser designed the model 1898 was more art than science.
  2. The Mauser action is not particularly stiff with the huge thumb cut in the left side for stripper clip loading.
  3. The action length limits the length of cartridge that can be used.
  4. The magazine feed lips are machined into the receiver. While they work great for a 8x57 or 7x57 cartridge, they don't work so great for cartridges with other lengths or diameters.
  5. The Mauser action uses a stock mounted recoil lug that engages a lip on the lower front edge of the receiver.
  6. The lock time of the heavy steel firing pin is slow by modern standards.
  7. Good triggers are hard to find for a Mauser.

If you are going through the expense of building a good long range rifle, start with a Remington 700 action purchased cheap at a pawn shop.
 
True oil is linseed oil and not really waterproof. Use polyurethane which is waterproof.
The best deal for a target rifle is a 700 Rem or a Savage in .308.
 
How is the Rem 721, 300H&H for long range shooting?

It is as good as the load and the shooter are as long as the rifle is accurate. The .300 H&H used to hold a few long range records IIRC. As far as MV and Energy go it has been surpassed. However you have the makings of a fine elk rifle if you do own one.

I like that 98 sporter as well, I especially like the Schnabel forend on it. That stock should finish out nicely. Plus don't believe some of the bull being put out here.

The 113 year old Mauser action has several limitations that more modern actions don't have.

1. The metallurgy is archaic using a soft steel that has been surface hardened using a carburization process. Metallurgy when Paul Mauser designed the model 1898 was more art than science.

2. The Mauser action is not particularly stiff with the huge thumb cut in the left side for stripper clip loading.

3. The action length limits the length of cartridge that can be used.

4. The magazine feed lips are machined into the receiver. While they work great for a 8x57 or 7x57 cartridge, they don't work so great for cartridges with other lengths or diameters.

5. The Mauser action uses a stock mounted recoil lug that engages a lip on the lower front edge of the receiver.

6. The lock time of the heavy steel firing pin is slow by modern standards.

7. Good triggers are hard to find for a Mauser.

If you are going through the expense of building a good long range rifle, start with a Remington 700 action purchased cheap at a pawn shop.

1. Yes the heat treat is old school, but this can be fixed (if needed) by re-heat treating the action. Companies like Pac-Met and a few others can make the action suitable for todays high pressure cartridges. Besides not all M98 actions are 113 years old so not all actions have the same heat treat.

2. It is stiff enough to handle most magnum cartridges, I've seen several military actions built into .458 Lott and I'm sure that isn't the smallest. Again the action might have to re-heat treated but this can be done as stated above.

3 & 4. Any gunsmith worth his salt can easily fix both of these perceived problems. I've seen several old 1909 Mauser's made into rifles capable of shooting the H&H length cartridges. Plus if the action isn't an intermediate length it will generally feed and .30-06 based cartridge without modification. Several companies make different sized magazine boxes and followers because some many 98 Mauser's have been made into something else other than the 7 & 8X57.

5. Actually the recoil lug is part of the action, the front action screw, screws right into the center of it. What you are talking about is a cross bolt in the stock and they have been used with other rifles without integral recoil lugs as well. The cross bolt keeps the stock from cracking under recoil.

6. Yes they have a slow lock time, but it can be improved with aftermarket springs and firing pins. It will never have the speed of the M700 but it is more than adequate for most people.

7. Other than the M700 there are probably more triggers made out there for the M98 than any other rifle. Midway has two pages of triggers for the Mauser action, though not all are for the M98.

The only real big detraction from sporterizing old M98 Mauser actions is the cost. It is far cheaper to modify a M700 or newer action than an old M98. However none of those rifles ever have the class and style of a properly customized Mauser action.
 
Thanks guys,

Ill post some pics soon the stock is almost done and the bolts are going to be here this week!

Also found out it is a 270 rifle with 6 flutes 1 in 10" twist.
 
Well here are the pictures as promised, let me know what you think.
 

Attachments

  • 2011-06-13_22-00-22_788.jpg
    2011-06-13_22-00-22_788.jpg
    93.8 KB · Views: 85
  • 2011-06-13_22-00-28_199.jpg
    2011-06-13_22-00-28_199.jpg
    104.2 KB · Views: 74
  • 2011-06-13_22-00-42_804.jpg
    2011-06-13_22-00-42_804.jpg
    79.1 KB · Views: 81
1. Yes the heat treat is old school, but this can be fixed (if needed) by re-heat treating the action. Companies like Pac-Met and a few others can make the action suitable for todays high pressure cartridges. Besides not all M98 actions are 113 years old so not all actions have the same heat treat.

These old Mausers were made of plain low carbon steels. The WWII actions should have cleaner metal than the WWI era stuff, but no matter the heat treat or case hardening job, plain carbon steels are going to be around half the yeild and ultimate of a good modern alloy steel.

Reheating has its risks as actions can crack. Heat and quench is hard on a complicated part.

2. It is stiff enough to handle most magnum cartridges, I've seen several military actions built into .458 Lott and I'm sure that isn't the smallest. Again the action might have to re-heat treated but this can be done as stated above.

These actions were designed to take the bolt thrust of an 8mm cartridge plus a safety margin. Conversions to other cartridges eat into the safety margins of the action. Sometimes with hot loads, the thrust exceeds the structural margins of the action. This is an FN action in 264 Win Mag. A cartridge the 98 was never designed for. The powder charge and the additional thrust of a wider base caused issues for this action.

And what do you think the shooter said after "OH"? :mad:

CommericalFNMauserboltlugs264Win-1.jpg


CommericalFNMauserboltlugs2264Win.jpg


CommericalFNMauserrightboltlugs264W.jpg


CommericalFNMauserboltface264Win.jpg


Not all conversions are made with any analysis of the loadings or the capabilities of the action. Kind of wing and a prayer conversions.


6. Yes they have a slow lock time, but it can be improved with aftermarket springs and firing pins. It will never have the speed of the M700 but it is more than adequate for most people.

I used a M98 action as the basis for a target rifle. The lock time is not worse than the lock time for a M1a, Ar15. Was not a big bother for me. A titanimum firing pin will speed things up, a little.

7. Other than the M700 there are probably more triggers made out there for the M98 than any other rifle. Midway has two pages of triggers for the Mauser action, though not all are for the M98.

I have stoned some M98's to very acceptable 3 to 4 pound triggers. My target rifle has a fine Timney trigger.


The only real big detraction from sporterizing old M98 Mauser actions is the cost. It is far cheaper to modify a M700 or newer action than an old M98.

Agree, and you won't get your money out of the M98.

However none of those rifles ever have the class and style of a properly customized Mauser action.

Agree. And if you start with a FN Mauser Deluxe, you are 95 to 97% of the way there.

FN270.jpg

__________________
 
These old Mausers were made of plain low carbon steels. The WWII actions should have cleaner metal than the WWI era stuff, but no matter the heat treat or case hardening job, plain carbon steels are going to be around half the yeild and ultimate of a good modern alloy steel.

Reheating has its risks as actions can crack. Heat and quench is hard on a complicated part.


These actions were designed to take the bolt thrust of an 8mm cartridge plus a safety margin. Conversions to other cartridges eat into the safety margins of the action. Sometimes with hot loads, the thrust exceeds the structural margins of the action. This is an FN action in 264 Win Mag. A cartridge the 98 was never designed for. The powder charge and the additional thrust of a wider base caused issues for this action.

Not trying to get in a you know what contest here. However if gunsmiths like D'Arcy Echols or Saterlee Arms re-heat treat Mauser actions to a higher Rockwell number to build on who am I to argue. Plus heat treating companies like Pac-Met and Blanchards have a good reputation for doing this to the Mauser actions without warping or cracking it.

I found this over on AR:

from Darcy Echols:
"..While attending the School of trades in Denver, We were told that any 98 rebarreled to a modern caliber should be re-carborized .030 to .040 deep so the surface hardness was around 36-40 RW C. The bolt a few point higher 40-44. They converted more than just two or three. Later when I opened my own shop I built 2 rifles chambered for 270 Win. and fell into the mind set that I now refer to as "how can you re-heat an action if you don't have a clue as to what it's made from" One was a 1909 and one a Radom. I had the rifles back in my shop years later and both had been set back enough that I had to set back the barrels the required amount clean up the lug seats and then sent both actions in to be recarborized and have not had a problem since(REMEMBER SAME REAMERS, SAME GAGES, SAME RIFLE). Do you know of anybody that has a 270 that won't try to get 3100 fps with a 130gr bullet? Ray sure won't leave the 404 at original speeds. The number of rifles I have had in my shop for some sort of repair or restoration that have set back is long indeed. This list would include the hallowed 98 square bridge actions, vz-24, 1909, 1908, and one FN in the white straight from the factory that I failed to check with the rockwell tester. I chambered the FN to 300 Win mag and it set back .015 in less than 200 rounds. It has since been hardened and to my knowledge has not move to the rear at all.Take it for what it's worth.

I have every 98 that I now use annealed dead soft, do 90% of the machine work that is required. Then it is sent in to be re-carborized as described and then finished up. Some 98 actions are probably OK to use as is the 1935 being one of them. But why take the chance and why waste all those end mills on an action that is glass hard on the surface or have to eat the repair when it shows up back in your hands.

I did have two 1909 action destroyed to get an idea of the steel composition. The results were as predicted and I now use the 1909 for any project that requires a 98 in a standard length Magnum, no I don't use them for the 375 H&H or similar lenght round as the action just gets to sloppy for my taste. Russell Wilkin the shop manager at H&H (ever hear of them?)requires all bolt rifles built on the 98 actions to be re-hardened."


Here is another LINK to heat treating Masuer actions. I'm not saying that modern alloys aren't better. I'm just thinking if you have the money to do it, these old "war horses" are still serviceable actions.
 
Last edited:
To get back to the original question, I would highly recomend a one piece scope mount, I have Redfield and Leupold mounts on my Mausers, have a gunsmith with a jig drill and tap the 3 holes, usually costs around $10 per hole. I have several sporterized Mausers, and factory comercial Mausers, great action: strong, simple, and safe. You have the start of a great sporting rifle there, Look into Bold adjustable triggers, they are affordable and work great, I got mine on sale at Midway for $43.
 
First off what is the cartridge that the rifle is chambered in, and what will you mainly be using the rifle for? This will help with the scope choice, because the two you picked are used for different purposes. A scope that starts out at 6+ power and goes up from there isn't going to be a very good hunting scope, the 3-9 will make a much better hunting scope. The higher power scope will make a better target or varmint scope.

Personally I don't like either scope you picked. My rule of thumb is to spend a little more on glass to get your best bang for your buck. I'd look for something with a good warranty I'd look at the new Redfield Revolutions or the Vortex Diamondback or Viper line of scopes. Both of these brands come with a lifetime warranty that is no questions asked, and they aren't terribly expensive.

As far as bases and rings I like the Leupold dual dovetail one piece base and rings on the old Mausers.
 
Back
Top