'Minutemen' to Patrol Arizona Border

Alvis

New member
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...4&u=/ap/20050221/ap_on_re_us/border_minutemen
WASHINGTON - Intent on securing the vulnerable Arizona border from illegal immigrant crossings, U.S. officials are bracing for what they call a potential new threat this spring: the Minutemen.

Nearly 500 volunteers have already joined the Minuteman Project, anointing themselves civilian border patrol agents determined to stop the immigration flow that routinely, and easily, seeps past federal authorities. They plan to patrol a 40-mile stretch of the southeast Arizona border throughout April when the tide of immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border peaks.

"I felt the only way to get something done was to do it yourself," said Jim Gilchrist, a retired accountant and decorated Vietnam War veteran who is helping recruit Minutemen across the country.

"We've been repeatedly accused of being people who are taking the law into our own hands," said Gilchrist, 56, of Aliso Viejo, Calif. "That is an outright bogus statement. We are going down there to assist law enforcement."

Officials concede the 370-mile Arizona border is the most porous stretch on the U.S.-Mexico line. Moreover, recent intelligence show that al-Qaida terrorists are likely to enter the country through the Mexico border, James Loy, the deputy secretary of the Homeland Security Department, said last week.

"Several al-Qaida leaders believe operatives can pay their way into the country through Mexico, and also believe illegal entry is more advantageous than legal entry for operational security reasons," Loy said in written testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Of the 1.1 million illegal immigrants caught by the U.S. Border Patrol last year, 51 percent crossed into the country at the Arizona border. The agency increased the number of agents in the Tucson sector, which has its largest staff, from 1,700 to 2,100 over the last 18 months.

But that number is going to grow to try to plug the remaining holes, said Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Robert C. Bonner. About 10,000 federal agents now patrol the 2,000-mile southern border, he said.

Officials fear the Minuteman patrols could cause more trouble than they prevent. At least some of the volunteers plan to arm themselves during the 24-hour desert patrols. Many are untrained and have little or no experience in confronting illegal border crossings.

"Any time there are firearms and you're out in the middle of no-man's land in difficult terrain, it's a dangerous setting," said Bonner, whose agency is keeping a close eye on the Minutemen plans.

"The Border Patrol does this every day, and they are qualified and very well-trained to handle the situation," he said. "Ordinary Americans are not. So there's a danger that not just illegal migrants might get hurt, but that American citizens might get hurt in this situation."

Civilian patrols are nothing new along the southern border, where crossing the international line is sometimes as easy as stepping over a few rusty strands of barbed wire. But they usually are limited to small, informal groups, leaving organizers to believe the Minuteman Project is the largest of its kind on the southern border.

It may also prove to be a magnet for what Glenn Spencer, president of the private American Border Patrol, described as camouflage-wearing, weapons-toting hard-liners who might get a little carried away with their assignments.

"How are they going to keep the nutcases out of there? They can't control that," said Spencer, whose 40-volunteer group, based in Hereford, Ariz., has used unmanned aerial vehicles and other high-tech equipment to track and report the number of border crossings for more than two years.

"There's a storm gathering here on the border, and there are conditions ripe for some difficulty," he said.

The border agents agree.

The Minutemen "clearly have every reason to be upset with the federal government for abandoning them," said National Border Patrol Council president T.J. Bonner, no relation to the commissioner.

But "if anything goes wrong, God forbid, someone does injure an agent, this government is going to be turning both barrels on them and come after them with a vengeance," he said.

Gilchrist said the Minutemen are under strict orders to merely identify and follow illegal border crossers and alert federal agents. They should not interact with the immigrants except to offer food, water or medical care. If there's a couple of "bad apples" who turn up in the group, Gilchrist said, they will face prosecution if they step outside the law.

Something dramatic needed to be done to curb the years of crime, property damage and trash dumping caused by the border crossings, Gilchrist said.

"Things are out of control" he said. "And they've been out of control for decades."

___

On the Net:

The Minuteman Project: http://www.minutemanproject.com/

U.S. Customs and Border Protection: http://www.cbp.gov/
 
They should not interact with the immigrants except to offer food, water or medical care.
the welfare starts here
But "if anything goes wrong, God forbid, someone does injure an agent, this government is going to be turning both barrels on them and come after them with a vengeance," he said.
i read this as "the federal government will not allow concerned citizens to interfere with illegal immigration into this county".
 
If I were king for a day or president........

I would start by using the National Guard to do just what these folks want to do. I think they mean well and many would do well but my thought is they are not trained are they? What is the chain of command? What do they do when they make contact? What legal rights do they have to make an arrest? I think they are trying to do well but I fear the problem(s) these well meaning American's could end up in.

I think the National Guard would work these gaps real well. They too would need the correct training for this duty and I could see it being a real positive service. :D
 
>>Great. Maybe we can get those patriots, the KKK, to help them. <<
This is unfair. Years of being ignored by the government have incensed these people to take action. If the government didn't want people to act, it should have done its job to begin with.
 
I hear you ebd10 - your right.......the government let things go for years and years.........I think at some point the system and the government have to get a grip or at least try to control the borders..... Just my .02..... :)
 
I would start by using the National Guard to do just what these folks want to do. I think they mean well and many would do well but my thought is they are not trained are they? What is the chain of command? What do they do when they make contact? What legal rights do they have to make an arrest? I think they are trying to do well but I fear the problem(s) these well meaning American's could end up in.

Many of us agree that the National Guard would be appropriate. Nothing would make the members of the MMP happier than to hear of their deployment. The MMP is trying to raise awareness of the issue and get more Americans to put pressure on the government to act.
As far as the other issues...such as making contact with the illegals, etc., if you go to the site, there is lengthy mission statement in which Gilchrist lays out the basic plan. The idea is for the volunteers to "spot" illegals crossing the border, and call it into the border control. They are not there to engage the illegals or attempt to stop them in any way.
Might there be problems that arise? Of course. We are dealing with many unknown variables: the illegals themselves; border agents, some of who may resent the MMP for being there; and any fringe groups who may attempt to participate in or obstruct the effort.
I have never known any citizen protest effort in American history that did not involve such variables. What if Martin Luther King had not organized protests against discrimination because of the fear that certain groups, such as the fringe elements of the Black Panthers, might attempt to take it up a notch? One can use the same line of questioning about the partisipants in the Boston Tea Party and any citizen actions since then. There is always a risk. The question you have to ask yourself is whether the issue is important enough to take a stand. Those at the MMP believe it is.

Great. Maybe we can get those patriots, the KKK, to help them
Ignorance comes in all colors. At this point, if one has bothered to look into the the Border issue at all, to simply dismiss the efforts of the MMP as KKK-like is pure ignorance...ironically, the same brand of ignorance that is the underlying force of the KKK and groups like it. While I disagree adamantly with supporters of the government's open door policy (which is what it really is at this point), even though I consider their viewpoint misguided, I respect their difference of opinion...right up until they throw out the race card. I am originally from the south, and know a little bit about racism, and believing in the Security of our Borders is NOT a racist issue.
 
> Years of being ignored by the government have incensed these people to take action. If the government didn't want people to act, it should have done its job to begin with.

Not my point. I wasn't arguing that nothing should be done. My point is that the Minutemen, Klan, Skinheads, Church-bombing deathmetal Neo-Nazis and other "thim bastids is comin ta git us" types are not exactly who I'd pick as a replacement for sworn LE officers, thanks. We saw enough of their "justice" in the South in the first part of the 20th century.

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Until the Minute Men actually do something along the lines of the KKK or Nazis, you'd be wise to give them the benefit of the doubt. They are doing what the government won't do, protect our country from an illegal invasion.
 
as a disinterested observer...

The inevitable result of the Feds' hands-off policy will be escalating civil strife. Right now it is just simmering, and there is still a reservoir of good will. That could change overnight, with one or two explosive events. I think D.C.'s complacency and arrogance is going to backfire bigtime.
 
Thanks

Thanks Charley..........

I was not aware they had a site...... I need to read up and see what it says.... I never understood the KKK comment........think someone is venting for something or some reason??? I understand what good intensions are.... and our government needs to be informed by all concerned citizens from all states not just border states.......

I would hope as we slowly see some of our troops return from the Middle East they (or some) could be deployed in conjunction with the US Border Patrol. I understand that in some cases the Mexican military or Mexican police members have even crossed into our country. It sounds like a real issue that has been soft handed way too long. I understand the Mexican government wants freedom on our south border yet the Mexican government has a south border that they patrol and capture people trying to gain entry into Mexico. A world rights organization reported that many captured on Mexico's south line are interned long periods of time. Often don't get food and water or shelter..... If that is true the Mexican government has a real double standard don't they? Seems like security should always start at home and not just the front door so to speak.... ;)
 
Not my point. I wasn't arguing that nothing should be done. My point is that the Minutemen, Klan, Skinheads, Church-bombing deathmetal Neo-Nazis and other "thim bastids is comin ta git us" types are not exactly who I'd pick as a replacement for sworn LE officers, thanks. We saw enough of their "justice" in the South in the first part of the 20th century.

This presumes that the only kind of fascism is the obvious, knuckle-dragging type. Forcing illegal immigration down the throats of the American citizen and taxpayer, with its obvious economic, social, and cultural impact, is just the mirror-image of skinheadism only in a button-down suit & tie form.
 
I put my border patrol time in whenever I'm out hunting. I have run into illegals on more than one occasion while out hunting. I just hit speed dial for the Border Patrol and give them the GPS coordinates. Usually takes them a bit so I keep my distance and point them out when they come.
 
This presumes that the only kind of fascism is the obvious, knuckle-dragging type. Forcing illegal immigration down the throats of the American citizen and taxpayer, with its obvious economic, social, and cultural impact, is just the mirror-image of skinheadism only in a button-down suit & tie form.

Again, just because I find A objectionable, doesn't mean I find B attractive. I do feel that something needs to be done. I don't feel that the Minutemen are the appropriate solution.

Unless, of course, this is some completely different group from the JBS-type Minutemen movement of the 60's and 70's, in which case I apologize to all concerned. But if it is the same group, then I stand by my remarks.

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This group has stated they will NOT make contact with illegals. They will record and report their location to the border patrol.
 
Mexican Military Border Crossing

There are documented cases of not only crossing the border, but engaging the Border Patrol with automatic weapons and even killing agents and still the Govies will do nothing to curb the tide. It is sad really, and all for votes. I hope while the minutemen are down there the Mexican Army tries that same **** and we nail then on our side of the border. It would definately for DC to think about what the hell is really going on down there.
 
Unless, of course, this is some completely different group from the JBS-type Minutemen movement of the 60's and 70's, in which case I apologize to all concerned. But if it is the same group, then I stand by my remarks.
I'm not familiar with the Minutemen movement of the 60's, 70's. The Minuteman Project is something that has been put together relatively recently, specific to the southern border. Go to their site; I think you may find it of interest. Personally, I would not be involved if I thought it was a kin to the Klan in any way, shape or form.
You have stated that you feel something needs to be done about the border; that you are just not sure about the MMP. What then can the average citizen do? We have written our representatives, voiced our opinions in polls, ect. The MMP is an attempt to do something proactive, in a non-violent manner. Will it work? Who knows. But at least we can say we are trying.
 
I know nothing of the MP group however because a group may be all white
does not make them the KKK, I understand we have been taught that by
the Media and public schools for 30 years but it is in fact silly. I take a wait
and see attitude. I do not think they will be effective, I lived along the border
and moved because of the problems, (it has grown much worse over the past
10 years) Our government, the mexican government and the wealthy on both
sides does not want it shut down.

Make no mistake the huge numbers that come are a burden on our schools,
medical system and all taxpayers foot the bill. The "only" people gaining is
the rich on both sides. It is a huge problem not because of color/race but
simply numbers it will in the end affect America forever. We cannot continue
to import people with such low level education and export jobs to third world
countries plus support wars all over the world to bring "freedom" to those
countries and come out a winner. At some point folks the straw will break
I perhaps wont see it however the younger one out there will. I find it sad
we have strayed so far from what America begin as.

Sorry for the rant. :(
 
Again, just because I find A objectionable, doesn't mean I find B attractive. I do feel that something needs to be done. I don't feel that the Minutemen are the appropriate solution.

Maybe they aren't but something has to be done to call attention to the problem. Situations like this one, when they get to this point, get ugly, no way around that. This is, in the end, a civil rights issue, the civil rights in question being those of the American citizen and taxpayer. If the Government in power wants to side against us, then civil "disobedience" will end up being what occurs. This wasn't precipitated by American citizens but rather by corrupt pols and greedy businesspeople.
 
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