Minimum caliber for elk under these conditions:

Shudder! I made a rifle hunt for deer last year with a 30-30 sporting an inexpensive scope. In practice I could get groups no tighter than 3-4 inches at 100 yards. I attempted a neck shot at 50-60 yards in a woodsy portion of forest chock full of waitaminute vines. I rushed the shot and wounded the deer. Stalked/drove the deer into another hunter who blasted away and apparently did not hit it. Deer disappeared for good. Hours later I lost the trail and went home very discouraged and pi**ed at myself for taking a shot I should have passed on. I am sure that the 30-30 cartridge (170 grain Remington) was up to the task but I was not. This bad experience led to my recent purchase of the Ruger 7x57 and the Leopold 3-9x40 for this year. I don't think I will be attempting any neck shots in the near future. Too many bad memories.

Geez. 300 yard shots on elk. I need to find a good range to practice. Local ranges only go to 100 yards. I don't think I would attempt anything beyond 200 yards with the 7x57 for the near future. My bowhunting eyeballs are calibrated to 25 yards. As an aside, my local buddies swear by the Remington 700 BDL in 30-06. But, my wife would kill me if I put another $700 into a rifle/scope any time soon. :)
 
Bottom Gun. On the 165 gr. Sierra BTHP for elk. In one word, DON'T! I loaded some of these up in a 30-06 for deer. A good hot load that was quite accurate. Anyway, I shot at a coyote at about 200 to 250 yards that was running up the canyonside. I hit him. As coyote hides were bringing as much as $100 or sometimes more, I climbed up that hillside to get the skin. What I found was a two piece coyote. I mean just that. The head and forequarters were about ten feet from the hindquarters. I decided then and there, that the bullet was too fragile for deer at top 30-06 velocities. I certainly would not use one on elk. A 165 gr. bullet I have had excellent results with in the .308 Win. is the 165 gr. Speer SPFB. The penetration I got on one Mule Deer at about 250 yards was excellent, hitting the animal in the chest front on, and ending up lodged against the left hind leg bone.
Even so, in .30 caliber, I think I would much prefer a strong 180 gr. bullet for elk.
I don't like boattail bullets either. They do have a tendency to shed their core much more rapidly than flat based bullets.
JMHO based on my experience.
Paul B.
 
Paul B:

Thanks for the info. I’ll pick up some 180 grainers instead of using these 165’s. I have time to work up a load before the season starts.

I’ve used the Sierra 165 BTHP on deer before and the bullets have always exited the animal, but I haven’t used them on anything larger. I load them in 30/06 at approx 2800 fps.
Since I have never recovered one, I don’t know if they shed the core or not but they may.
I like the boat tail because they’re easier to load and because they are supposedly easier on the barrel and retain a bit more energy downrange than the flat base.

I haven’t been bullet shopping in a while since I normally buy in quantity. I understand there are several good new bullets on the market now. Can someone recommend a good 180 gr for large animals?

Thanks!

Bottom Gun
 
If you like the 165 grain bullets you could use a Nosler Partition or Swift A Frame for Elk. They are both partitions but the swift is a tougher bullet and will usually retain more bullet mass.

Nosler or Swift 180's would work fine also. Just be sure if you go Nosler you have the Partition [with a lead tip] and NOT the Ballistic Tip [with plastic tip] for Elk.
 
Dogger,
if you were to make a habit of elk hunting, you'd probably want more rifle. For a one-off trip, unless you just want an excuse to get another rifle, your 7 x 57 should serve you quite well, using the heavier, premium bullets suggested by those with lots of experience with the cartridge. Remember, the old elephant hunters harvested LOTS of ivory using 6.5 and 7 mm rifles with the old, long, strongly constructed bullets.


Bottom Gun,
I must respectfully disagree with PaulB about the Sierra 165 BTHP in .30-06. I feel it is plenty for what you want to do. Would more be better? Perhaps, but if you can shoot the '06 well, you'll do much better with it, or even a .308, than with a .338 mag that romps you around so much you're nervous with it.

I've used the 165 BTHP extensively. I took it elk HUNTING, but never shot one with it. I use 58.0 gr IMR 4350 powder, a top load, for right at 2700 fps. I've killed quite a few deer, including one quite large West Texas white tail, with it. Largest animal I took with it was a large Western Colorado black bear. One shot, 150 yards, hit the near shoulder and angled to rear of the chest, where it stopped on the skin. The bullet separated, but at the far end of the trip, because lead and jacket were within two inches of each other.

The Sierra 180 Game King spitzer boat tail is a great bullet, too, but don't sell the 165 BTHP short.

Best regards,
RR

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---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
 
About those Elephants with 7x57 and 6.5's they used FMJ bullets at low velocity for brain shots at very close range. They weren't "hunting" either. They were just killing them for ivory.
 
Rocky Road,

I've had good results with the Sierra 165 BTHP myself, but only on deer, coyotes, etc. Never anything large like elk. I've never been able to recover a bullet. They've always exited, even on angling shots.

I'm loading them for 30/06 with 49.0 gr of IMR4064. I'm out of town right now and don't have my loading book here, but I believe that load gives me about 2600-2800 fps velocity according to Lyman. I'll have to run some through my new chronograph to see what the real velocity is. Might be surprised.
My Sako groups this load sub m.o.a. and the old Garand likes it as well.

I've avoided spitzer type bullets, preferring to use hollow points. I used to shoot an old star barreled Springfield which would badly deform any soft points in the magazine. This Sako does it also, but not so badly. Anyway, I didn't feel these mushroomed flat "points" on rounds in the magazine were very conducive to accuracy, so I switched to HP.
Another excellent HP for varmints is the .30 cal Speer 125 gr TNT. They are quite accurate and very explosive when they land. I was very pleased to discover my Garand does extremely well with these in front of 52 or 53 gr of IMR4064.

I'm going to look at some of the 180 gr slugs today. Guess it won't hurt to work up yet another load.

Thanks for your input, Guys!

Bottom Gun
 
I have shot elk in Idaho and Oregon using Nosler 150 gr. Partition bullets in a 30-06 with 53.5 gr IMR 4064. The old timers I have hunted with elk hunting use rifles ranging from .25-06 to .300 Weatherby. The large caliber option for elk seems to be a fad in the last 5 to 10 years. Bullet choice is more important than caliber, specifically construction. MWT
 
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