MIM ?
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Microgunner
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Metal Injection Molding.
Microgunner
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da nada
Cheapshooter
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Go to post #4 on this link for a very detailed explanation, and pics: http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/t...aurus-international-mfg-inc-factory-tour.html
There is a lot of Taurus flavored "Kool-Aid" being drunk by the author of the post linked above, so take that with a grain of salt. I would question such phrases as "That part is now as strong or stronger than if it had been machined from a block of the same metal." and "The finished part...is now unbreakable..." and my favorite "MIM parts are superior in every way.". I am not opposed to MIM parts in guns, but lets not get carried away, MIM is a cost saving feature, not an enhancement.
Here's an old thread with a picture of a MIM trigger that broke....
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=427387&highlight=is+there+metallurgist
FWIW,
og
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=427387&highlight=is+there+metallurgist
FWIW,
og
"old thread"
Like other new techniques, MIM technology in guns took a while to mature, and some early MIM parts were made by companies specializing in MIM, not in guns. The results were mistakes in the methodology and the material leading to problems. And since nothing ever dies on the internet, some folks keep posting old pictures to promote some agenda of their own.
But the gun makers have gotten their acts together on MIM and today, IMHO, it is a perfectly good way to make complex parts with (usually) no subsequent machining required.
Saying that MIM allows the parts to be made cheaper, not better, implies that MIM parts are somehow worse than parts made by casting, forging or stamping. That is simply not true. Any engineer will select the method of production for what he wants a part to do. No one would suggest a polymer sear, or a plastic hammer. But no one would want to carry a rifle with a solid machined steel stock very far, no matter how strong it might be.
And if MIM parts are cheaper, so what? I wonder if the folks who cling to the idea of forged parts, hand filed to fit, would like to pay for that kind of production, or see guns restricted by price to only the very wealthiest. Unlike those folks, I am not a millionaire, "dot com" or any other kind, and I appreciate being able to buy guns at some reasonable price.
I have a Model 1899 S&W M&P, the first M&P model. If that gun were still being made today, like it was made 112 years ago, it would cost at least $2500, maybe $4000. Some folks who could afford it might like that since they would be among the wealthy elite who could own a gun. I am glad good quality guns are "cheap" enough to be affordable for the peasants, like me.
Jim
Like other new techniques, MIM technology in guns took a while to mature, and some early MIM parts were made by companies specializing in MIM, not in guns. The results were mistakes in the methodology and the material leading to problems. And since nothing ever dies on the internet, some folks keep posting old pictures to promote some agenda of their own.
But the gun makers have gotten their acts together on MIM and today, IMHO, it is a perfectly good way to make complex parts with (usually) no subsequent machining required.
Saying that MIM allows the parts to be made cheaper, not better, implies that MIM parts are somehow worse than parts made by casting, forging or stamping. That is simply not true. Any engineer will select the method of production for what he wants a part to do. No one would suggest a polymer sear, or a plastic hammer. But no one would want to carry a rifle with a solid machined steel stock very far, no matter how strong it might be.
And if MIM parts are cheaper, so what? I wonder if the folks who cling to the idea of forged parts, hand filed to fit, would like to pay for that kind of production, or see guns restricted by price to only the very wealthiest. Unlike those folks, I am not a millionaire, "dot com" or any other kind, and I appreciate being able to buy guns at some reasonable price.
I have a Model 1899 S&W M&P, the first M&P model. If that gun were still being made today, like it was made 112 years ago, it would cost at least $2500, maybe $4000. Some folks who could afford it might like that since they would be among the wealthy elite who could own a gun. I am glad good quality guns are "cheap" enough to be affordable for the peasants, like me.
Jim
Of course. But the question is whether MIM is INFERIOR; if it is as good as other methods of production, or better, then cost saving is fine, and I don't see anything wrong with it. Why do you want to pay more for something as good as a more expensive product if there is no difference?
But if MIM is inferior; if MIM parts are breaking all over the place, if police and armed citizens are dying in the streets by the thousands because their MIM guns break or fail; if companies are stopping its use amid tens of thousands of law suits, then MIM is bad.
But I don't see those things happening. As I said, some problems cropped up very early, but they seem to have been resolved.
Most guns are mass produced products. If you want expensive guns, you can buy English shotguns that are hand filed out of steel blocks, take years to make, and cost fifty times the salary of the average American. If nothing less will satisfy you, fine. I envy you being able to afford such a work of art. But if you want a reasonably well made gun that you might be able to afford, why complain about cost saving?
Jim
But if MIM is inferior; if MIM parts are breaking all over the place, if police and armed citizens are dying in the streets by the thousands because their MIM guns break or fail; if companies are stopping its use amid tens of thousands of law suits, then MIM is bad.
But I don't see those things happening. As I said, some problems cropped up very early, but they seem to have been resolved.
Most guns are mass produced products. If you want expensive guns, you can buy English shotguns that are hand filed out of steel blocks, take years to make, and cost fifty times the salary of the average American. If nothing less will satisfy you, fine. I envy you being able to afford such a work of art. But if you want a reasonably well made gun that you might be able to afford, why complain about cost saving?
Jim
A cost savings IS an enhancement. A cost savings in one area can translate into a product improvement in another area.
As James K says above, there is no downside (except one) to the use of MIM technology to make gun parts, as long as MIM technique is properly applied and it is used in an appropriate application. The various components in a weapon (or any machine) are sized according to the functional requirements, stiffness requirements, and strength requirements for that particular part.
Many parts in a handgun require a certain stiffness, but the stress in the part is low. Aluminum is a good choice for these parts, so is MIM steel. Other parts require high hardness and wear resistance, but again the stresses are low. Castings and MIM is a good choice for these applications. Other parts require a functional shape, but stiffness and wear resistance is not required, and polymer is a good choice for these parts. And then there are the highly stressed parts where static strength and fatigue strength are important, and high strength steel is used for these parts.
I said there was no downside to MIM except one... The one downside is that MIM is not fashionable. Their are bragging rights and pride-of-ownership that comes with owning a finely crafted weapon. There is nothing wrong with wanting to own an all-forged all-machined pistol. I enjoy shooting a Colt Python for this very reason. But to claim that any weapon which is not all-forged all-machined is somehow unworthy... that is just a sophisticated kind of mall-ninja-ism.
Im not sure that I agree that MIM is as good as anything else.. I have a very young step son who has toys made with MIM and more often than not they seem to break without any effort at all.
I also think in most guns MIM isnt saving all that much money what it does do is speed the production.
I also think in most guns MIM isnt saving all that much money what it does do is speed the production.
Cheapshooter
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No 'Kool-Aid", just a very good explanation of the MIM process. As far as my view of Taurus it is based on my personal experience with them, that of my Son, and friends who also own Taurus guns.
But this isn't a Taurus thread, it's an explanation of the MIM process.
Of course MIM manufactured parts are so inferior, and unreliable that BMW uses them for the rocker arms in their engines!. Also many other companies use the MIM process for turbo charger vanes, gears, gear shift levers, various brackets, and even brake parts.
Also, inconsequential parts for the aerospace industry such as engine turbines, the valve that controls the de-icing system, seat belt parts, and others are made by the MIM process.
It's a choice everyone cas make. Firearms produced in the fashion of 100 years ago (NON-MIM 1911), or the technology of the 21st century. I have several of each.
Im sure good MIM is used in lots of things but one would expect BWM and any airline parts to have a highly precise requirements and more than likely an inspection process that eliminates flawed parts...
I dont think most gun companies are doing x-rays on parts and probably dont have much in the way of QC on MIM... So if you get a company that does a good job on MIM then its no big deal on the other hand it could be hit in miss... But thats my dime I have no horse in this race other than I try to avoid MIM.
I dont think most gun companies are doing x-rays on parts and probably dont have much in the way of QC on MIM... So if you get a company that does a good job on MIM then its no big deal on the other hand it could be hit in miss... But thats my dime I have no horse in this race other than I try to avoid MIM.
Cheapshooter ,the metallurgist, me , is still here ! 
Thanks for the list .I never searched for all the possibilities of usage but IIRC the F-150 has piston rods of MIM.
There has been a huge change in materials and processes in the automotive world .It's made cars much safer than even 5 years ago .
Thanks for the list .I never searched for all the possibilities of usage but IIRC the F-150 has piston rods of MIM.
There has been a huge change in materials and processes in the automotive world .It's made cars much safer than even 5 years ago .
MIM is the progress of metallurgy. If car makers make rockerarms out of it, you can bet it will work just fine in a gun.....The internet feeds too many trolls with axes to grind.
Too bad all those horse whip makers went out of business when the new fangled "auto carrige" came along.....
Too bad all those horse whip makers went out of business when the new fangled "auto carrige" came along.....
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