Milsurp Bolt Guns

N

Nine the Ranger

New member
Are they worth it?

I mean The Mosin Nagants are pretty cheap to buy and feed, but what about the Arisakas and the Enfields?

How expensive are they? And how hard is it to find ammo for them?

Is the S.M.L.E really as accurate as I keep hearing?
 
I prefer the Yugo Mausers from what is out there now. Most people are used to the way they work (safety in particular) and ammo is easy to find for them.

I don't care for the safety on the Mosins nor the Arisakas, plus the Arisakas are much harder to find ammo for, no plinking ammo around for them since there is no surplus for those rounds.

I like the Enfields, can't speak to claims of accuracy. Still would take a Yugo Mauser over one in today's market. Also, the Yugo wins when it comes to cheap/available ammo.
 
My order of choice would be:

1903
1903a3
Swede
K-31
Swiss 1911
K98
Ariska
SMLE
Yugo
Mosin Nagant
French junk
:)
 
many of them are quite nice but they are very different animals from the modern bolt actions that we use today. they are not refined and streamlined. many times they were rugged and cranked out in the millions. other times they were very crudely made weapons made either by desperate nations trying to keep up with a war demand or by nations that just didn't have the time or inclination to refine their designs.

the mosin nagant is one of the crudest actions out there, hard to actuate, not great accuracy and tool marks that look like they were hammered out by hand. on the other hand they are very simple to take apart and clean and they are a rugged design. ammo is also everywhere and pretty cheap.

i own a pair of enfields they are great guns and I prefer them to any other milsurp out there. they have smoother actions than most and though they aren't tack drivers they still hold minute of man accuracy out to 600 meters which is better than some. 303 ammo is pretty easy to come by but not the cheapest, usually it's about the same as 30-06 as far as hunting ammo goes, I was lucky and got about 2400 rounds of good reloadable surplus and 400 rounds of premium hunting ammo for a fraction of what it would cost in stores so I rarely look at availability though it never seems to be an issue for most.

I have been looking to add an arisaka to my collection recently and have managed to get quite a bit of information from other members here at the C&R forums. here is a thread that should shine a little more light on the arisaka for you.

springfields can have very good accuracy or very bad depending on how much they were shot and if they were rebarreled at the ends of WWI and WWII. I have a 1912 made springfield that was rebarreled at the end of WWI and shoots about 2-4 inch groups with 1940-1970s surplus ammo, I have a 1943 springfield sniper that shoots sub MOA-2" with the same stuff.
 
Depends on what you are looking for...

I got a Greek M1903, which I had DGR rebuild. I was considering getting rid of it, until I moved to add a scope to mimic the USMC sniper variant. Something different than all the A4s out there, which is what I look for in regards to my collection.

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I found that there is a project to make a 10 round magazine for the Mosin Nagant, so I decided to go with another sniper styled weapon...

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Century reproduction of the PU sniper rifle. Very nice rifle, with a perfect barrel. I have stain on the way, being I want to clean the wood up.
 
All of the bolt actions used in the Great War and later can potentially be very accurate.
Only a very few of them will shoot as well as a Stevens 200 (or other low end modern rifle) does out of the box, with out tweaking them.

The Mausers, including the 1917, and the Springfield will have a better average accuracy. Well maybe the K-31 should be in that group as well.

AFAIK the Springfield is the most accurate after it has been tuned, using match ammo.

The Enfields will average paper plate accuracy at 100yds. A fair percentage will get to 2moa. If they are set up right and have a good barrel they can get sub-moa.
 
All of the bolt actions used in the Great War and later can potentially be very accurate.
Only a very few of them will shoot as well as a Stevens 200 (or other low end modern rifle) does out of the box, with out tweaking them.

The Mausers, including the 1917, and the Springfield will have a better average accuracy. Well maybe the K-31 should be in that group as well.

AFAIK the Springfield is the most accurate after it has been tuned, using match ammo.

The Enfields will average paper plate accuracy at 100yds. A fair percentage will get to 2moa. If they are set up right and have a good barrel they can get sub-moa.
 
Are they worth it?
Click to expand...

Yes. There are lots of good rifles out there.

If you can find one, a Swiss K-31 is a great shooter. Really accurate and well made. The straight pull bolt is really cool too.
 
Of the ones I have shot I would say the swedish mausers and the Swiss straight pulls are some of the most accurate if buying for shooters. My top choices of the rifles to collect and most likely to greatly increase in value over time I would say Axis and Allies WWI dated rifles, pre 1899 dated centerfire mausers, and any US military rifles.
 
I buy them for the history and the collection, not for shooting. When using the right ammunition-i.e. that they were designed for, and with a decent bore
they can be pretty accurate and they can benefit from careful adjustment of the screws, checking the bedding, etc. Some-the Lee Enfields, e.g.-have wide variations on bore size, careful measurement and slugging of the bore and matching the bullet to the bore can produce good accuracy. It's a good idea to remember the design philosophies of the various nations that adopted and produced them. The Mosin Nagant seens crude, but it was meant to be used by a mostly illiterate peasant army. It has been said of WWI that the Germans had the best hunting rifle, the British the best battle rifle, the US the best target rifle. French rifles have no safeties because the French felt they gave a false sense of security and the best safety was proper handling.
 
I've only fired one Enfield, a jungle carbine. Nobody liked shooting it in my group, and I thought the sights were poor. However it had pretty good accuracy, given the fact that we call kind of pointed it at the target and pulled the trigger to get it over with. It grouped nearly as well as the M1 rifle I was shooting, but not as well as the Krag that was being fired though...

Prices vary depending on condition and collectibility of course. All the milsurps used to be cheap. Some ridiculously so.

The Arisakas are not bad rifles. The 'last ditch' rifles seem to taint the impression people have of them. Very interesting, and extremely strong actions. The ammo isn't very common though.

Want something unusual? Find a USGI Mosin-Nagant 1891. Yes, they exist, US cartouched and everything. US troops carried them in the northern Russian expedition. Some were even sold through the DCM after their service life was over. US troops didn't favor them very much, they preferred the 1903s

I don't think you could go wrong with say, a K31

The ubiquitous and fairly reasonably priced 1903A3s are seemingly dried up, but they have the advantage of readily found ammunition
 
I absolutely love my nosing nagant. It is extremely accurate open sights and is a powerful, cheap round. I got 880 rounds for. 159.99 of military ball. I would hunt anything in north America with it with confidence as well. My father had a 1903 that killed many white tail deer. If you are intersted in military firearms, all the ones listed above are all great rifles. My personal favorite is my m1 garand.
 
Might be a dumb question, but is all 7.62x54R steel-cased?

I ask because I was watching Guns and Ammo TV, and there was a segment on Hornady's loads for milsurp rifles, I saw a steel cased round and assumed it was Russian.
 
The Enfields can be accurate, but unless its already been worked on by a pro it takes quite a bit of labor to get top accuracy from a run of the mill Enfield.

The No.5 carbine can be extremely accurate if you taylor a handload to the short barrel.
Muzzle blast with most standard .303 ammo is a bit harsh.

If you want top drawer accuracy the Swedish Mausers are hard to beat. I haven't owned a 96 but I've had the pleasure of putting many rounds through a couple of these over the years. I once owned a 1895 in 7mm and it was uncannily accurate, but I can't claim that all are from that single example.
I'd intended to offer to buy that rifle back from the guy I sold it to but was told last month that he had died unexpectedly and all his stuff had already been sold off by his survivors.

The 7mm is a great classic cartridge, hard to beat even these days.
 
Nine the ranger.... No. There is plenty of good quality brass cased ammo available for the mosin nagant. I have hundreds of bulgarian surplus thats brass cased but corrosive. PPU, Wolf Gold, S&B, and now Hornady make brass cased boxer primed ammo thats non corrosive and reloadable.

I have a 3-44 Remington made 1903 springfield that I put in a extremely nice birds eye maple stock. Drilled and tapped the reciever and mounted a one piece leupold base and topped it off with a Burris FFII scope. With my handloads its capable of sub-moa accuracy. I paid $100 for the rifle.

I have 3 mosin nagant's. One 91/30 made in 1929 with a hex reciever. Despite what some people say about the crudness of manufacture I dont see that on mosin's made pre or post wartime. I like shooting pumpkins with this rifle and my surplus 182gr bulgarian ammo because they literally explode when hit. Its a 3-4'' shooter @100yrds in a rest. I paid 69.99+tax and transfer.

I have a 91/59 thats well made with good rifling but dark bore. It has a beautiful laminated stock on it. It does have some chatter marks on it here and there because it was first built in 1942. Still a good shooter comperable to the 91/30 I own. That rifle cost me $169.00+tax.

The last one is a Hungarian M-44 made in 1953 and it is far and away the nicest mosin nagant Ive seen in person. Beautiful wood, nice bluing. All numbers match and the bore is pristine. I shot a huge doe several years back with it at a distance of just over 200yrds. I was using S&B 174gr. ammo that was loaded factory with sierra bullets. Even though they were match bullets I was astounded at the damage the bullet did. This rifle is also well made with no machining marks. I traded a AMT backup .380 for this rifle.

Point is there are very good examples of surplus rifles out there in various types of condition. Just because its a surplus rifle doesent mean its crappy made or shot out. Keep a keen eye out and you would be amazed at what you can find for not very much and in the case of my 1903 you can turn it into a supreme shooter for not very much at all.
 
I have a 91/30 I shoot long range that's heavily "re-done" that's sub-moa with handloads..BUT...it takes a ton of work (it's a fun DIY project) to get it there.

OTOH, the K-31 I bought for my younger son is a tack driver...outfitted it with a Bushy 10X tactical. That receiver steel was the toughest I've ever encountered- took a carbide bit to break through the case hardening on every hole for the mount... They're built like a Swiss watch, fantastic fit and finish, unlike the Mosin...

Other son got a M24/47 Mauser. Re-arsenaled, these things are like new.
After a few rounds at 100- sights were dead on- he ramped the sight to 600 meters and took aim at a large truck tire at that distance. Dead center hit with old milsurp ammo on the first try...

Fun stuff... get you some!
 
;)

Any of the Finish Mosin rifles are amazing shooters. Never found one that didn't shoot the way I received it. ;)

Cheers
..MJ..

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Bamashooter... Is your 3-44 Remington 03A3 a two groove barrel? The reason I ask is I have a Smith Corona with a 1944 Remington two groove barrel and it is a tack driver as well.

Just curious as some of the two grooves have excellent accuracy.
 
I have a remington 03A4 that was rebarreled with a two groove remington A3 barrel and it shoots holes touching at 33 yards with surplus ammo.
 
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