Million Dollar Question for Pro-Gunners

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Patriot45

New member
Here is the million dollar question:

How do we as pro-gunners convince the anti-gunners (including the Old Media) that a) guns are not the source of all evil, and b) gun control laws do nothing but take a toll on law-abiding citizens considering the local criminal doesn't give a hoot about gun laws? It drives me crazy to see the anti-gunners in this country working diligently to get more gun legislation passed, when in reality, all they are effectively doing is limiting my rights to protect myself and my family. I always use the extreme example of: If the congress were to pass a law stating that you can't touch your guns on Sundays, folks like me would grumble, but would likely obey the law. When do you think the crimes would occur the most???
 
Million Dollar Question

One radio talkshow host put it this way, "Liberalism is a sickness that affects the brain." You can talk to liberals all day long, and all those who seem to think that gun control will solve America's violent crime and actually reduce crime, but they have been brain wash into thinking a certain way. They will listen to anyone who tries to persuade them on political issues as long as they start the argument with "research shows", even when there really is not such research or that the research really shows the opposite. I'm not sure there is a way to convince "anti-gunners" of anything. In my experience, which is limited, they have made up their minds. It also amazes me that most of the liberal anti-gunners also decry that everyone should be open minded, when they are the most closed-minded people I have ever met. Well, that's my two cents worth. Thanks.
J.
 
You are correct Sir!

Mr. John,

You are correct...particularly when talking about the close-mindedness of liberals. As you pointed out, they make statements like "research shows..." to back up their views. But woe to the person who accurately points out that "research shows guns save lives"...that doesn't fit their mold and they immediately reject it.

Patriot
 
Talking to Anti's and Liberals is like wrestling with pigs ; you just get all muddy, and the pigs like it. Regards 18DAI.
 
How do we win? That's really easy to explain... implementing it is much harder...

First off, re-educate the NRA. No more compromise on gun rights, no more catering to hunters. And no more statistical-based "talking points": they don't work, so we need to get away from them...

Then we have to train the "pro-gun" politicians to follow suit. No more talk about the Constitution, no more speaking from the standard "NRA script". Use emotion to appeal to the antis: when discussing CCW, mention how many people in the past year were the victims of violent crime in your state... and point out that any one of them could have used a gun to protect themselves (this really can't be argued). Do NOT bring up "guns save lives/reduce crime": that can be refuted. If discussing the AWB, point out how much fun it is to compete with such weapons, and how seldom they're used in crime (one of the ONLY ways statistics should be used)...

Seperate gun rights from the rest of the "conservative" standpoint as much as possible. Church going white Christian shooters are great. But we also need gay shooters, pagan shooters, black shooters... heck, embrace and endorse "Purple Vegan Shooters for Cthulu" if they're a possible gun-rights group!

The last step, I have no answer for implementation: get shooters involved and educated about the political situation! We ran into a problem here in WI during our last goobernor election: the (pro gun) incumbent Rep lost to the (anti-gun) Dem by like 4 points. The (pro-gun) Libertarian got like 10 points. Most of the votes for the Lib were gun owners: we slit our own throats on CCW, for the sake of a "third party" that is going nowhere fast...
 
How to win? Lose the attitude when it comes to the liberals. They aren't stupid, and you're not going to convince anyone of anything if you start out believing that. The positives of gun ownership is a sophisticated principle, not an obvious one.


BOTH sides glorify the importance of guns. Change the debate and make it about personal security - let guns be the end result of the discussion, not the beginning. Stop harping about the Second Amendment, and talk about the things that caused it to be written. Talk about the LA rights and the man getting pulled from his truck and beaten to death.


Take it out of Liberal/Conservative context. Being pro-gun does not have to be a Republican feature. If Democrats feel that gun issues aren't important to Republicans, it will stop being important to Democrats who vote opposite Reps on anything considered a "key issue". The situation will improve when it is no longer partisan in nature.
 
For the die hard gun grabbers the only way to 'change' their mind is to carve a new .45" diameter pathway through it.

Gun control isn't about safety or crime, it's about being able to victimize people without facing the natural consequences of it. The marxist left knows full well 'political power grows from the barrels of guns', their hero Mao said that.

Gun control has its roots in the old Jim Crow laws, which were enacted by the DEMOCRATS (gee, who'd have thought it?). Originally intended to suppress and make blacks easier to victimize, nothing much has changed, except the RAT party has broadened their intended victims to include everyone and not just blacks.
 
I can pound a nail through sheetrock all day, it won't make it work any better than tapping it in just enough to be flush!

The point is, we're dealing with soft-brained folk. Hammering harder just defeats the purpose and is counter-productive in the end. Just tap gently often enough so that it sinks in eventually.

The NRA is wonderful on the "big picture" issues of national importance and legislative importance, but woefully impotent in the local and statewide electorate. NRA money (my money) could be spent more wisely on the county/region area rather than on the state/national level! Spending more money in these parts to elect pro 2A candidates makes so much more sense! After all, by the time candidates for state or national offices are elected, the alliances run elsewhere! The NRA should spend more money grooming local candidates as they rise, instead of trying to change the minds of those already in high positiions. Those in high places already have their minds made up about certain issues (it's what got them there in the first place!) and are not readily perceptive to ideas of logic and law.

The NRA is just another Political Action Committee, looking out for themselves and their own longevity and importance, creating crisis when needed and appeasing when easier.

The right to self defense and the right to keep and bear arms is a simple concept! I think that the opposing factions agree on this concept, but neither side willing to concede their stance on the fact that agreement would eliminate the need for both! "Just disagee enough, win points, concede points, and be vocal enough so that we are both profitable!" Without the "Brady Campaign", how could the NRA ask for more money? If not for the NRA, who would the Brady folks elicit money to fight?

OK, my dander is up! I could go on and on and elaborate further and in more detail. Maybe a new thread if enough interest and prods.

By the way, I am a member of the NRA, and a registered Republican. It doesn't mean I agree with the way things are being done! The best way to see the big picture is to illuminate from within!
 
I don't think they really believe their own BS...
They believe the BS served up by their liberal leaders.

I think they believe that IF there were no guns at all, there would be no crime at all... an idealistic pipe-dream they harbor deep inside themselves.

They have somehow convinced themselves that they can ACTUALLY rid the world of guns!

They want to "wormtongue" the manufacturers out of business...
They believe that no criminal would "bootleg", and none would build, the evil guns in hidden "underground" machine shops...

Hell, "they" outlawed meth-labs and that worked really well... :barf:

Prohibition sure showed 'em what-for... :mad:

And nobody abuses drugs anymore either... :p

Prostitution no longer exists... :rolleyes:

Somebody please tell me that the liberals aren't really that stupid...
Nobody can be that stupid... can they?
Maybe they're just stubborn in the face of the facts...
Is there a Psychologist on the board who can "analyze" the liberal mind? :confused:

And, of course, "as any fool can plainly see"... Gun control works very well in Washington, DC and Boston, MA and Oakland, Kalifornica... :cool:
 
Quite the challenge!

It seems as if we've been fighting these Liberals for years with their anti-gun statements. "Research Shows" comments are very one sided. I live in Massachusetts, (Capitol of Liberalism). There are shootings by gangs and just plain bad guys in Boston all the time, and everytime you hear of them on the news (major networks controlled by the Left), the last comment by the "respected senior anchorman" is always; "Gun violence is out of control". It just feeds the fire of the anti-gun people. I believe that one simple statement could be made that would send the right message is; "The perpertrator who shot the victim was not a licensed gun owner". That never seems to get to the public? Thank God for the NRA and organizations like GOAL (Gun Owners Action League). Without groups like that, us law abiding citizens wouldn't stand a chance of keeping our gun rights.
 
Great, important topic!

QUESTION: How do we as pro-gunners convince the anti-gunners (including the Old Media) that a) guns are not the source of all evil, [etc.]

ANSWER: Roughly in order of importance: (1) Take a kid shooting or hunting, (2) Take a friend shooting, (3) Take a spouse/S.O. shooting, (4) Take a relative shooting, (5) Join NRA, (6) Join GOA, (7) Join SAF, (8) Join JPFO, (9) Staunchly defend (in a tactful way) pro-rights positions when the subject of conversation comes up with friends/family, (10) mail your GOA postcards to your congresscritters, (11) othwerwise snail mail or email or fax your federal and state congresscritters when important legislation is pending, either pro-freedom or anti-freedom, especially the federal critters, as that's where most of the really bad stuff originates, (12) If you're a bit of a wordsmith, write you local papers' editorial page dept from time to time, defending pro-freedom stances - you'll get published sooner or later, (13) participate in the group boycotts against anti-freedom companies, such as Conoco-Phillips and Ruger, (14) If you have a little extra money, give it to NRA/GOA/SAF/JPFO, (15) write media orgs (tv stations, newspapers, cable networks, etc.) to correct them when they make an anti-freedom error, biased story, etc., and (16) VOTE! (actually vote should be number 9 or 10 in importance)

If just one-TENTH of gun owners (8 million people) did just one-HALF of those things (your choice - pick any 8 folks!), on an ongoing basis, we would steamroll the anti-gunners like so many weeds.
 
That reminds me of the time my sister-in-law asked my brother when there black lab will stop being so hyper. His response was when he breaks his hip.
 
New bumper sticker: "Ted Kennedys car has killed more people than Dick Cheneys shotgun". On a more serious note, you will not change the mind of the media or the minds of your anti gun reps. What you can do is invite a liberal to the range. Plant a seed that people who own guns are not nuts, or criminals, but co-workers and people with families. Secondly, you must still try to get your voice heard. Write, e-mail, call and pester your reps. This may not appear to do any good, (look where I live), but if EVERY gun owner was to do it, the groundswell on the local level WOULD be noticed.
 
Labels, slogans, generalizations all put people on the defensive. If you start a dialog with "You Liberals are all ______" constructive communication dissolves before it even begins. You see them as evil, stupid, twisted, and they see you as the same way. Pro-gunners do have the benefit of being right (statistically proven), but when you can't even have a civilized dialog right does squat for you. Generalizing a whole group is ignorant, whether they do or you do. Anti-gunners usually aren't stupid, just misinformed. They key is to have a comfortable, safe, and unoffensive medium for communication.

I have changed the minds of dozens of my peers on gun-matters, but i've never been able to accomplish anything comming out swinging with offensive over-generalizations.
 
Personally, I think it is a waste of time and effort to try and "re-educate" hard core gun-grabbers. A better tactic would be to educate the non-committed of the middle. Doing that -- turning the undecided of the middle into pro-gun people, you marginalize the hard core gun grabbers.
 
How about the not so hard core gun grabbers?

The majority of anti-gun voters in the US do not have an overly strong or well thought out reason for being that way. It just seemed logical to them that gun violence and guns go together.

Sarah Brady would have no support if all the less than dedicated supporters changed their minds. Elections are won by the swing vote, and many, many people fall into that category when it comes to guns.
 
Liberal Thinking

It seems to me that most so called "Liberal" or "Progressive" thought patterns are the result of dissatisfaction with reality. Little to nothing positive has resulted from Liberal or Progressive thinking. The failing of the Liberal or Progressive thought patterns is that their solutions don't include the individuals with the problem as an integral part of the solution. This is why Liberal agendas have developed into nothing more than high stakes blame games and the Democratic party is floundering against the Bush Administration.
 
Gun control is a game that cannot be won by either side, only played. They will never say oh ok have all your gunrights back. If they're totally outlawed, they will never collect them all. People will make shotguns from gas pipe if needed etc..

Some if not most of the Libs know damn well the advantages of gun ownership but espousing it does not fit their real agenda. It's the fence sitters we have to work on. Education, take the kids shooting, etc..
 
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