Jeff White
New member
I don't think we are going to settle this here, but lets not stop talking about it.
In other threads on this subject I've asked who among you who is so outspoken against SWAT had those same feelings 8 years ago? No one ever answered me. I'm just curious to know if you were as outraged about the excesses then, when most of the targets of this type of enforcement were the members of the drug subculture? Or was it after the '94 crime bill and the Waco raid that you realized the constitution was in danger? I don't mean this as a flame of anyone here, I just think that as a society we don't tend to think too much about that kind of thing, unless it's our ox about to be gored.
Of those concerned about the militarization of law enforcement, I ask you this....Have you ever attended a city council or county board law enforcement commitee meeting? If not, why not? Have you ever had an incident occur in your community that you were uncomfortable with and spoken to your councilman, board member, mayor, police chief or sheriff about it? Have you ever called any of these people to ask what strings come with grant money that hires new officers or buys additional equipment?
Law enforcement is one of the last truly local forms of governemnt. Laws are enforced by community standards. For example before a trip to Key West last year, a friend told me that there was a very lax attitude toward marijuana use there. I didn't truly believe him until I observed people openly smoking dope in the outdoor gardens of the bars in the middle of the afternoon. The small midwestern community that I police would be up in arms over that, but would absolutely throw a fit if a local hunter was arrested for felony UUW for having an uncased gun in the car. I don't know but that might land you in the pokey in Key West.
If you think your police department is too military, do something about it. Don't jump all over the officer on the street, ask your councilman or chief why the department needs 10 M14 rifles from DOD.
The members of your local police department are your employees. Their boss also works for you. In most cases the boss lives in the same community, shops in that same stores and will be responsive to the input they get from their employers (you).
Everyone in this forum on both sides cares about this issue. As an LEO, I will admit that there have been excesses and some agfencies develop an expensive unit and then feel compelled to get their money's worth from it.
I don't think any of the private citizens here would deny their employees (the LEOs) the tools and training to do their job professionally and safely. And I don't think any of the LEOs here are just itching to break down doors for the thrill of it.
Certain well publicized excesses are tarnishing every badge in the country. If changes need to be made, they need to be made at the top level, the policy makers. There are no rogue SWAT teams at the local level beating the Bill of Rights into the ground, unlike the portrayal in certain fantasy movies. There are good people (your employees and neighbors) who are trying to do a difficult job safely. Those of us who do wear a badge NEED your trust and confidence to do our job. We know going in that police work will not be the kind of job that you can make everyone happy at. People want to be free to do what they will, if that means frying their minds with drugs or driving 100 mph on the interstate. You employ us, to stop the excesses in that area and maintain order. And some of you will naturally be upset when we do.
Also try to remember that the great majority of search warrants are served by a detective and a couple of uniformed officers who knock on the door, wait for the answer and present the warrant, conduct their business and leave, without damaging the property. Of course these seldom rate more then a half inch of column in the police docket section of your local paper..
My point here is that if you want to see changes in these things, go to your elected representatives. I would bet anyone here that you stand a better chance of geeting a policy or procedure that you feel is illegal or unjust changed at your local PD with a well reasoned, thought out presentation to your mayor, chief or councilman then in any other branch of government.
In my mind the issue is one of trust. If you don't trust the employees you've hired to enforce the law with the power that you've given them, then either fire them or take the power away.
Jeff
In other threads on this subject I've asked who among you who is so outspoken against SWAT had those same feelings 8 years ago? No one ever answered me. I'm just curious to know if you were as outraged about the excesses then, when most of the targets of this type of enforcement were the members of the drug subculture? Or was it after the '94 crime bill and the Waco raid that you realized the constitution was in danger? I don't mean this as a flame of anyone here, I just think that as a society we don't tend to think too much about that kind of thing, unless it's our ox about to be gored.
Of those concerned about the militarization of law enforcement, I ask you this....Have you ever attended a city council or county board law enforcement commitee meeting? If not, why not? Have you ever had an incident occur in your community that you were uncomfortable with and spoken to your councilman, board member, mayor, police chief or sheriff about it? Have you ever called any of these people to ask what strings come with grant money that hires new officers or buys additional equipment?
Law enforcement is one of the last truly local forms of governemnt. Laws are enforced by community standards. For example before a trip to Key West last year, a friend told me that there was a very lax attitude toward marijuana use there. I didn't truly believe him until I observed people openly smoking dope in the outdoor gardens of the bars in the middle of the afternoon. The small midwestern community that I police would be up in arms over that, but would absolutely throw a fit if a local hunter was arrested for felony UUW for having an uncased gun in the car. I don't know but that might land you in the pokey in Key West.
If you think your police department is too military, do something about it. Don't jump all over the officer on the street, ask your councilman or chief why the department needs 10 M14 rifles from DOD.
The members of your local police department are your employees. Their boss also works for you. In most cases the boss lives in the same community, shops in that same stores and will be responsive to the input they get from their employers (you).
Everyone in this forum on both sides cares about this issue. As an LEO, I will admit that there have been excesses and some agfencies develop an expensive unit and then feel compelled to get their money's worth from it.
I don't think any of the private citizens here would deny their employees (the LEOs) the tools and training to do their job professionally and safely. And I don't think any of the LEOs here are just itching to break down doors for the thrill of it.
Certain well publicized excesses are tarnishing every badge in the country. If changes need to be made, they need to be made at the top level, the policy makers. There are no rogue SWAT teams at the local level beating the Bill of Rights into the ground, unlike the portrayal in certain fantasy movies. There are good people (your employees and neighbors) who are trying to do a difficult job safely. Those of us who do wear a badge NEED your trust and confidence to do our job. We know going in that police work will not be the kind of job that you can make everyone happy at. People want to be free to do what they will, if that means frying their minds with drugs or driving 100 mph on the interstate. You employ us, to stop the excesses in that area and maintain order. And some of you will naturally be upset when we do.
Also try to remember that the great majority of search warrants are served by a detective and a couple of uniformed officers who knock on the door, wait for the answer and present the warrant, conduct their business and leave, without damaging the property. Of course these seldom rate more then a half inch of column in the police docket section of your local paper..
My point here is that if you want to see changes in these things, go to your elected representatives. I would bet anyone here that you stand a better chance of geeting a policy or procedure that you feel is illegal or unjust changed at your local PD with a well reasoned, thought out presentation to your mayor, chief or councilman then in any other branch of government.
In my mind the issue is one of trust. If you don't trust the employees you've hired to enforce the law with the power that you've given them, then either fire them or take the power away.
Jeff
