Microchip prohibited persons
- Thread starter dfwkid
- Start date
Spats McGee
Administrator
The Fourth Amendment comes to mind.
stinkeypete
New member
“What could possibly go wrong?”
I think that one of the problems with the question is the appearance that “a felon” is somehow “someone not like me.”
There are horrible sociopaths that commit premeditated acts that we all would abhor. What about finding a curious looking stone in a stream bed and putting it in your pocket?
If an unjust government had it out for you and it was an ancient artifact such as an arrow head, you might have committed a felony. There you are, lumped in with professional grave robbers and cultural artifact thieves. Now you have an electronic chip in you and your every motion might be tracked.
Marking people with special arm bands and tattoos went horribly wrong about 100 years ago; people have not changed, only technology and how many of us are crowded on to our planet. The guys that wrote our constitution and the people that have interpreted it for the past 250 years were pretty smart, and they were us.
It’s good to talk about this stuff.
In the end, simple solutions to complex social issues are always lacking.
I think that one of the problems with the question is the appearance that “a felon” is somehow “someone not like me.”
There are horrible sociopaths that commit premeditated acts that we all would abhor. What about finding a curious looking stone in a stream bed and putting it in your pocket?
If an unjust government had it out for you and it was an ancient artifact such as an arrow head, you might have committed a felony. There you are, lumped in with professional grave robbers and cultural artifact thieves. Now you have an electronic chip in you and your every motion might be tracked.
Marking people with special arm bands and tattoos went horribly wrong about 100 years ago; people have not changed, only technology and how many of us are crowded on to our planet. The guys that wrote our constitution and the people that have interpreted it for the past 250 years were pretty smart, and they were us.
It’s good to talk about this stuff.
In the end, simple solutions to complex social issues are always lacking.
buck460XVR
New member
I don't see how micro-chipping a felon would be any different than the system we have now when buying from a FFL. A background check is doing the same job as the chip. Felons aren't getting their firearms thru legal methods anyway. They are using straw purchases, buying FTF or just stealing the firearms they want. In any of those scenarios, a micro-chip is not going to stop them from obtaining them.
berettaprofessor
New member
I thought reposting what Pathfinder said was worthwhile. Because he's completely ethically and legally correct. Criminals are not the same as cattle. They have rights to their bodies. I'm about as pro-law enforcement as anyone, but microchipping anyone against their will is not law enforcement...it's subjugation.
Mark of the Beast, Scarlet Letter, a Yellow Star, or a pink triangle or a Konzentrationslager Nummer when a government forces people to wear, be tattooed or chipped, its just WRONG!
Conspiracy "theorists" have been saying that our babies have been "chipped" at the hospital (without our knowledge) when born, for decades now, pretty much since the chip was invented. they say the chips aren't being used YET, but they WILL be...
Most people think they are wackjobs...and they probably are, but what if....???
Some people fight like hell against immunizations....don't see them lining up to be chipped, either...
Convicted felons lose the lawful ability to exercise CERTAIN SPECIFIC rights, as defined in law. ONLY those rights defined in law. I'm fairly sure chipping them against their will would be a violation of some laws.
How is this different from an ankle bracelet monitor? for one thing, after the required legal restrictions end, the bracelet comes off. Would removing the chip be a (minor?) surgical procedure? would it be left in place and just "turned off" somehow? and if they did that, how would you know they actually did? things like that, and medical privacy laws make it seem like a really bad idea, at this point in our society's history.
This might change in the future, might be everyone wants and gets "implants" and the laws are changed to reflect this. Until then, I would say its a non-starter for a LOT of reasons.
Conspiracy "theorists" have been saying that our babies have been "chipped" at the hospital (without our knowledge) when born, for decades now, pretty much since the chip was invented. they say the chips aren't being used YET, but they WILL be...
Most people think they are wackjobs...and they probably are, but what if....???
Some people fight like hell against immunizations....don't see them lining up to be chipped, either...
Convicted felons lose the lawful ability to exercise CERTAIN SPECIFIC rights, as defined in law. ONLY those rights defined in law. I'm fairly sure chipping them against their will would be a violation of some laws.
How is this different from an ankle bracelet monitor? for one thing, after the required legal restrictions end, the bracelet comes off. Would removing the chip be a (minor?) surgical procedure? would it be left in place and just "turned off" somehow? and if they did that, how would you know they actually did? things like that, and medical privacy laws make it seem like a really bad idea, at this point in our society's history.
This might change in the future, might be everyone wants and gets "implants" and the laws are changed to reflect this. Until then, I would say its a non-starter for a LOT of reasons.
Dfariswheel
New member
There would be a number of Constitutional challenges even if it ever got to that point.
The 4th Amendment would prevent what amounts to an un-Constitutional search or seizure, the 5th Amendment on self-incrimination, (the Supreme Court long ago ruled that a criminal can't be prosecuted for failing to register an illegal gun) the 8th amendment on cruel and unusual punishment, and no doubt others can be strongly argued.
It may be Constitutional to REMOVE something like blood from a drunk driving suspect, but putting something IN ain't gonna fly.
At least not until the Progressive Left do a lot more preparation of the citizens.
The 4th Amendment would prevent what amounts to an un-Constitutional search or seizure, the 5th Amendment on self-incrimination, (the Supreme Court long ago ruled that a criminal can't be prosecuted for failing to register an illegal gun) the 8th amendment on cruel and unusual punishment, and no doubt others can be strongly argued.
It may be Constitutional to REMOVE something like blood from a drunk driving suspect, but putting something IN ain't gonna fly.
At least not until the Progressive Left do a lot more preparation of the citizens.
I think everyone pretty well nailed it, that no invasive system would ever fly for numerous reasons. Probably many more that haven't even been mentioned. That being said, facial rec sounds interesting. Between driver licenses and other various ids they've got most everyone somewhere, as someone else mentioned you just need to create the data base. Since most everyone has a smart phone you know what they say, "there's an app for that" and sure it may not be perfect but neither is the current system, or any government program for that matter.
NoSecondBest
New member
The OP would make Hitler proud. Why tattoo when you can chip? The fact that this has even been suggested I find disturbing.
Remember, once they start microchipping Felons in the name of "Public safety", then the next step is those who have committed misdemeanors and traffic violations. And those who enforce the law may end up microchipped as well, under the guise of "Officer safety". Welfare recipients, retirees, Alzheimer's patients, school children, gun owners, fisherman, employees, ALL will eventually be chipped, in the name of "Public" or "Personal" safety... get my point? It's a slippery slope I have ZERO interest in watching happen in the USA. Look what's happening in China with AI and facial recognition technology, social scoring, etc. Not good. Microchips for felons? No thanks. It's just wrong.
As it stands, Parolees and Probationer's report to their Probation Officers, who have their photos, tattoos, personal information on file and verify their employment, attendance at counseling, search their cell phones and apartments, monitor social media / contacts and screen them for drugs. Social security numbers, contacts, medical history, etc are ALL on file. The State even begins gathering and compiling all this data on children who are charged with minor offenses, often as young as 11 or 12. Cradle to grave, the Government is ALREADY tracking people with criminal offenses, often minor crimes from decades ago and others who are only suspected... microchips are not required. One would be shocked just how much information the State databases already hold on people. Ever buy a hunting or fishing license? Have a drivers license? File a tax return? Buy a car? Cross reference with a credit Buero report, social media profile, your online history, IP address etc. and there is ZERO need to microchip the population. They already have you figured out. Going truly "Off Grid" is just an illusion. Those days are long gone, for Felons or anyone.
As it stands, Parolees and Probationer's report to their Probation Officers, who have their photos, tattoos, personal information on file and verify their employment, attendance at counseling, search their cell phones and apartments, monitor social media / contacts and screen them for drugs. Social security numbers, contacts, medical history, etc are ALL on file. The State even begins gathering and compiling all this data on children who are charged with minor offenses, often as young as 11 or 12. Cradle to grave, the Government is ALREADY tracking people with criminal offenses, often minor crimes from decades ago and others who are only suspected... microchips are not required. One would be shocked just how much information the State databases already hold on people. Ever buy a hunting or fishing license? Have a drivers license? File a tax return? Buy a car? Cross reference with a credit Buero report, social media profile, your online history, IP address etc. and there is ZERO need to microchip the population. They already have you figured out. Going truly "Off Grid" is just an illusion. Those days are long gone, for Felons or anyone.
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Onward Allusion
New member
Chip, eh? Oh hell, why don't we just brand a big "X" on their foreheads? 
A couple of you guys make me glad I have guns.
A couple of you guys make me glad I have guns.Deja vu all over again......
This topic tends to remind me of the fact that I was forced into having to pee in a jar to keep my job.....not once, but twice.
Folks - the .gov can and will do whatever the hell they want to do & if you go against them, be ready to pay a stiff price.
This topic tends to remind me of the fact that I was forced into having to pee in a jar to keep my job.....not once, but twice.
Folks - the .gov can and will do whatever the hell they want to do & if you go against them, be ready to pay a stiff price.
dogtown tom
New member
Nonsense.
I think its a bit extreme, but its not complete nonsense.
Anytime you oppose the acts of the powers that be, there is a cost. It should be only time, and usually is money, but there's always a cost.
In some pretty rare cases, the cost can be blood, but we usually call those "revolutions".
The "Soapbox" first, always (and this includes legal challenges in courts), and the Ballot Box to closely follow. The Cartridge Box should always be the last resort, used only in gravest extreme.
dogtown tom
New member
Yes, NONSENSE. And you can fight city hall. Happens.Every.Day.
If you are unaware of your civil rights, repeat Jr HS.
"Government" can't do "anything they want", they have to abide by the Constitution, Federal law and the judiciary. Ever heard of "due process"? You should have.
That doesn't mean every government action is okey dokey. A police officer might pull you over without cause and perform an illegal search of your car or person.....that's clearly illegal and protected under the Constitution. If you contest the illegal search the courts (also the government) may find in your favor and the officer may lose his job. Thats why police officers are darn careful before initiating a traffic stop and beginning a search of the car or persons inside.
What a load of malarkey.
Your example of gas chambers is from Nazi Germany.......not a democracy, not a country with separation of powers and basically shows you don't understand how the US government works. Shame on you.
dogtown tom
New member
Unbelievable.
Small point of history, Germany WAS a democracy, and the Nazi were voted into power. After they were ELECTED, they used the power granted them in the democratic government to change the government so that they, and only they were in complete control.
A democracy CAN become totalitarian, without an armed revolution. Our system of checks and balances makes that difficult, but not, unfortunately, totally impossible.
What most people forget is that the first country the Nazi's conquered was their own.