Method for Developing a Load?

B

baddarryl

New member
Hi all. What method or sequence do you use to dial in a load regardless of caliber? With pistol I don't care that much, but rifle is another thing. As there are a myriad of powders, bullets, cases, primers etc for every caliber how do you know where to begin?

The simplest I have figured is one rifle at a time! Lol! Then where? Thanks.
 
What calibers are you looking at?

Im currently working up a 30-06 load. my though process was this
picked a bullet weight, 150
picked a bullet, hornady 150g interlock bt
Picked a powder, already had varget so I figured I would try that first while researching other powders.
measure bullet seating and set it 0.010 off the lands.
took the starting load and worked up to max
backed off 2 grains and used the berger method for bullet seating depth testing
tested powder loads in 0.2g increments down from max to find a load that shot well
Load done. that combo is as good as it will get in that gun

I'm sure my method is over complicated by some standards, and simple by others, but it seems to work ok for me.
 
hounddawg said:
do some Googling on the cartridge you are working on. For most of the common one you can easily narrow it down to a bullet weight, a couple of go to powders, and info on preferred nodes.

I like Erik Cortinas method myself

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/long-range-load-development-at-100-yards.3814361/

and he has a lot of helpful videos also
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I steer clear of Jam. The idea of getting a bullet stuck in the barrel when in the field or at the range is a no go for me. It really just depends on what the OP is loading for and wants to do with it. Its a great technique, just not for me.

Heres the Berger article I referenced, they have a match (jam) and a hunting (no jam) formula
https://bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/
 
Shadow9mm said:
What calibers are you looking at?

Im currently working up a 30-06 load. my though process was this
picked a bullet weight, 150
picked a bullet, hornady 150g interlock bt
Picked a powder, already had varget so I figured I would try that first while researching other powders.
measure bullet seating and set it 0.010 off the lands.
took the starting load and worked up to max
backed off 2 grains and used the berger method for bullet seating depth testing
tested powder loads in 0.2g increments down from max to find a load that shot well
Load done. that combo is as good as it will get in that gun

I'm sure my method is over complicated by some standards, and simple by others, but it seems to work ok for me.
Click to expand...
Immediately 5.56 and .223. I'll be going for accuracy for NRA High Power and also just better plinking ammo. After that .30/06 for Garand and I may get a K31 this week so that as well.
 
1. Clean your brass if dirty
2. Separate your brass by head stamp. Win has the strongest head, Rem is ok, Fed is suppose to be the most consistent of the three. Norma is better than these. Lapua is the best. I once obtained a mix bag of these and the Lapua and Normas were exceptionally consistent. The last two might be great for the K31.
3. Prep your brass (optional with many steps). Group my bullets by weight and ogive to base length for the K31 (optional).
4. If I were going to shoot a .223 or 30-06 Garand (I don't own either), I'd search the web and find out what the best shooters are using and start from there. There is a reason that combination works. I tend to surf the web and rely on the book titled Petlaods. The tradit-onal Garand load he cites is 150gr sp using 57gr of 4350, Rem brass, 3.30" cartridge length. MV = 2813 fps. There is a GP11 recipe for the K31 on the web that uses Berger bullets. I have it stored away and can't reach it but you'll find it on the web. There's also a Swiss Rifle Club in CA that can help you.
5. I buy blemished bullets as a first choice. If not, go to #4
6. Primer choice depends on what's most available. For me, it's Winchester
7. OCR or Ladder Test. Buy a Lee collet die and Factory Crimp die. They come in a set. Make your test loads as stated above. I make a dummy load using an odd casing and seat the bullet until the lands start to rub off the felt pen ink..
8. Fine tune by seating depth. Have some nice competition dies. I own an RCBS Competition die set and Forster seating die myself. I have two seating depths eventually, one with the ogive just off the lands and another that just fits in the magazine.
9. For the K31, I'd use a concentricity gauge and mark the high spot.
 
There are about a blue million combinations. Don’t overthink it is the best advice I can think of. Me personally, I tend to gravitate to inexpensive projectiles that are accurate and offer at least some terminal ballistic capability. I stay away from match HPBT projectiles in case I decide to take an opportunity to harvest game. Or keep a mag in an AR for home defense.

After that, I lean toward at least mid-weight projectiles for most calibers, and prefer heavy for caliber weights. Think 180gn or better for .30-06.

Powder... whatever I can make work. I’m a creature of habit and simplicity, so I don’t seek out tons of different powders. If our hobby was stable and everything we need was always in stock, I would probably try to get by on as few powders as possible. That is not our reality, so I’ve used everything for .223 from exterminator, to 10x, to shooters world. I’ve never had a powder that was “inaccurate” or “not good enough.”

It’s really not terribly difficult to crank out ammo that is capable of better than moa accuracy so long as you and your rifle are capable. Once upon a time I stressed over achieving 1/2 minute accuracy, and have with some loads in some rifles. At the end of the day, I don’t compete and it isn’t that real.
 
Pick a bullet brand and weight for the purpose at hand. I like Hornady. Pick a rifle primer. I used to pick the most popular and recommended powder to start with. Almost always found a good load with the most recommended powder. Meticulous caseprep. I start out with Hornadys recommended overall length. Start with near recommended start charges. I only load 3 rounds at start charges and load 10 each from mid-range up.
Now the aggravating part. You'll spend hours shooting groups waiting on a barrel to cool and possibly cleaning the barrel. A trip to the range with all your equipment. Most ranges setting up a chronograph is chore and may be dangerous for your screens setting past the firing line. Shoot a group, wait for barrel to cool, shoot another and wait. I find starting loads to be anemic so usually only shoot one or two rounds. Then when I find good grouping I run out of the 10 rounds and wish I had more. Most always don't shoot all groups at near maximum or max. End up taking them home to pull down. Now that I've shot all ten of my best group time to go home. I then load more from 1/2 less to 1/2 grain more and back to the range. Pick the best load and back home. Measure the distance to the lands, load the best charge from 50 thou. off the lands, .40, 30, 20 thousandths off. Don't want basic loads that are close or jammed into the lands. Back to the ranfge and if one distance shows slight improvement that's my load. Sometimes a load is easy to find the sweet spot the first trip but usually takes more range trips.









en
 
Sequester a group of batch for your development.....about 100 new brass.

FL Size such that the shoulder is within 0.002” CBTD.

Set your OAL to max mag length, lands -0.020” or as long as you can get bearing surface to fully touch the neck.

Shoot a ladder of 10-15 increments: 1 shot per bullseye (load 3-5 sighters to get close first) Look for velocity changes shot to shot as well as impact changes. You are looking for several shots where the bullet hits the same spot with changes in charge weight. You are also looking what load delivers a min performance velocity. Last any trouble with pressure, primers, bolt lift....those are too hot.

Then shoot 3 shot OCW’s around your sweet spot to see groups. At this point, are you close or need more? You still need to run 1-2 ocw cycles to determine CBTO length....this can improve stringing or other target issues.

Then run 5 groups of 5 of your final load. POI same? Groups stable? You should be done.
 
I steer clear of Jam. The idea of getting a bullet stuck in the barrel when in the field or at the range is a no go for me. It really just depends on what the OP is loading for and wants to do with it. Its a great technique, just not for me.
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As do I. I start at .025 off for the charge development phase and only go to touch now when working on the seating depth. Nice you already found the Berger article. A lot of people really get surprised when they find a bullet that performs better with 50 or 75 thou jump. I have found that Nosler Custom Competitions like a .025 to .035 in every caliber I shoot them in from .22 to .30
 
When Frankfort arsenal developed the 7.62 NATO cartridge, they knew the 30-06 and its 1:10 twist was too fast for best accuracy. The NATO round shot the same bullets about 100 fps slower and its 1:12 twist shot them more accurate.
 
Ask others what is working for them. The internet is a great place to ask as are other local hunters. Be specific. For example if you're looking for a good load for 308 to use for deer, elk and black bear at ranges up to 300 yards ask what others are using.

It may take a while, but trends start showing up. If lots of people are getting good results with 168 gr brand "A" bullet using "X" amount of "Y" powder then chances are pretty good you'll get good results with that combo too.

I'd never advise blindly copying someone else's load data off the internet. I'd first confirm the data in a loading manual and would back off some and work from there.

Your final load may use a bit less or more powder and it may be tweaked slightly in other ways. But there is no reason to re-invent the wheel every time. You can learn from others research. Saves a lot of time and money.
 
Top ranked competitive shooters and their barrel makers have known for decades that the bullets need to be a few ten-thousandths inch larger in diameter than the barrel's groove diameter if best accuracy is the objective.

Most interesting example is the British commonwealth fullbore long-range competitive shooters using 7,62 NATO M80 ball ammo with .3070 inch diameter bullets shooting most accurate in barrels with .3065 inch groove diameters.

That parallels Western Cartridge Company 308 Winchester match ammo with. 3088" diameter 197 and 200 grain bullets so they are very accurate in Winchester 70 match rifles with barrels grooved .3085 inch.

Therefore, find out your barrel's groove diameter and get bullets bigger in diameter.
 
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Bart B. This question arises because I don't know. Does it follow then that if a bullet diameter is say .001" over the groove diameter that the case inside dimension should be at bore diameter?
 
burbank_jung said:
Bart B. This question arises because I don't know. Does it follow then that if a bullet diameter is say .001" over the groove diameter that the case inside dimension should be at bore diameter?
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No. Rifling is usually .004" deep

Case neck inside diameter should be about .001 inch smaller than the bullet's diameter. That's called a .001 inch interference fit.
 
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Lyman Manual

Lyman reloading manual has bolded "most accurate" loads and those powders are good places to start. Play with primers if you can..... Sometimes the difference is dramatic like in inches! Play with length. Prep your cases well. Play with sizing to get the best fit to your chamber. Work up to max loads. Best accuracy is usually close to 100% density without much if any compression and cases that fit closely to the chamber but still chamber without resistance.

I just full length resize so I know the ammo will chamber in different guns, pick one of the best powders listed as best accuracy because they are near optimum for performance and set my length so I know the ammo will feed through the gun correctly. Most of the time if you try to get the bullet so many thousandths off the lands you can't fit the ammo in the magazine anyways! Playing with the powder selection and charge is usually the quickest way to find a good load. You can drive yourself crazy and to the poor house testing different combinations. I say keep it simple.
 
What powder do I have?

Its it a known good one per caliber?

Hunting or Target shooting bullet? I go with .020 off lands to start with.

Then start low, work up in 1/2 grain increments (10 each)

Once I find a likely node, load up 25 and play with COAL.

Repeat and refine.
 
not sure if it was mentioned, but garands can be VERY ammo specific. I was reading in another area something along the lines no bullet lighter than 150 or heavier than 180, no powder faster than IMR3031 or slower than IMR4320. You can get around that with ported gas plugs or ones with extra volume, but follow the set recepies.

For 223/5.56, separate 223 and 5.56 brass. you will need to work up loads for them separately as case capacity for 5.56 can be smaller resulting in higher pressures.

For practice ammo I use mixed head stamp (brand not 223/5.56) with good results of right around 1-1.5moa with my budget AR.

For precision ammo, I sort by head stamp for brand, and really try to be spot on with my powder charge weights. Best my rifle with its $80 barrel will do is 3/4moa, but the velocities are a lot more consistent with the same brass and spot on powder loads.
 
Thanks everyone. I have a couple with Wylde chambers and on .223 so yes I have been sorting brass and separately bagging the fire formed brass from my bolt .223. That said I have Lee and Lyman manuals and unless I am missing something I only see loads for .223 and not 5.56. I also know that the majority of the difference between the two concerns Freebore and that is where the pressures vary.
 
Case capacity for the 5.56 brass can be smaller than 223 brass depending on the maker. thicker walls/base for higher rated pressure. The outside dimensions are identical, the inside may not be. This can result in higher pressure with the same powder load. The difference is not a lot, but it does effect things. I have noticed a 20-50fps difference with the same charge weights in .223 vs 5.56 brass (5.56 chamber, no pressure signs) depending on the head stamp. I separate because If I load them together my round will be all over the place, especially father out. Wylde is rated to shoot 223 and 5.56 safely, but I am sure you already know that. Just watch for pressure signs when working up a load as always.

Also, if working up practice loads for training, you can also work up a 223. and 5.56 casing side by side. If you see higher velocities from the 5.56 just back off the powder until they match. It wont be perfect, however with good handloads the extreme spread of the loads combined can be better than some factory ammo. PMC bronze that I chronoed had a ES of 144 for 10 shots for example
 
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