Metal Beads where Barrel Connects to Receiver

P

PESCAHOLIC

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Hello all,

New to the forum and seeking advice from those with experience.

I have been hunting my whole life and own many weapons, but this our first Savage.

My daughter won a 7MM-08 Savage AXIS at a youth deer hunt a few years ago; it fits her perfectly and seems to be very smooth. In preparation for her upcoming hunt next week we were out at the range last week and I noticed the cartridges were becoming more and more difficult to remove from the receiver - even after allowing the gun to cool.

We came home and I cleaned the gun and we returned to the range today. She was using Fusion 120 grain the first time it hung up and we switched to Hornady Whitetail 140 grain today. After approx 25 rounds today (allowing time to cool) the cartridges began hanging up again in the receiver so I cleaned it briefly which helped a little. After another 15 rounds it was the same thing again - cartridge hanging in the receiver. So we shut it down.

As we were cleaning up at the range I noticed that a few primers had been knocked out of the cartridges and also noticed that many cartridges showed signs of gas passing through the primer, which I understand to mean that the load is too hot (too much powder), or that there is a problem with the weapon. Since it's factory ammo I don't suspect it is the ammo...but I've been wrong once before in my life!

Anyways, I came home and removed the stock to clean it again and see if I could find the problem. What I found were micro sized balls of steel as you'll see in the photos below. I know it's not lead because it is magnetic and I cannot smash it with pliers - looks like bead blast media.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/481541...posted-public/




https://www.flickr.com/photos/481541...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/481541...posted-public/[img]



Any ideas as to what is causing this issue?

Thank you in advance.

Rob
 
That's from the factory, it just didn't get cleaned prior to shipping. Just clean it out and don't worry about it. Its how they polish parts.
 
Thanks.

Makes sense, but I still have an issue with cartridges getting lodged in the receiver and pressure issues with factory ammo.

I suppose it's not impossible that a bead is hanging the cartridge up occasionally and possibly, also impeding a good seal which is creating the pressure issue.

Thoughts?
 
Blowing primers is SERIOUS and you need to find the problem ASAP. If you don't have the knowledge or experience, find someone who does before you or your Daughter gets a face full of debris or worse.
 
You say the rifle is actually a few years old--is this a new problem after years of normal use? That would be a bit odd--especially if you have manufacturing debris in it. It does sound like you're getting a consistent over-pressure--could be from anything but if it's "mild" factory maybe you're getting improper headspacing. Savages usually have pretty smooth actions--any notable resistance closing the bolt? You may want to cycle a cartridge (without firing) and compare COL's to see if there is any possible forcing of the bullet back into the case (if you haven't already tried that). I have seen debris imprint itself onto the wall of the chamber--check the spent cases and see if you have any odd deformations that occur in the same area--as well as measuring the over-all dimensions--looking for signs of unusual stretch or flow at the case head, shoulder, neck etc. (also the face of the case head as well as the bolt face might show other signs of improper headspacing). I agree with not firing the weapon until you are absolutely positive you have identified and remedied whatever is causing the over-pressure/improper ignition situation.

PS--your links don't seem to work--at least for me.
 
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Blown (not merely pierced) primers are serious overpressure -- 85,000+ psi to cause
the head/primer pocket to expand that much to drop the primer from the case.

Have a gunsmith check for constrictions/foreign material in the neck/throat area that
would prevent the case neck from easily expanding/releasing the bullet upon firing.


postscript: I know this may sound absolutely silly, but are you sure of ammunition/chambering/barrel match ?
 
Call Savage & tell them your new rifle is blowing primers with factory ammo. I'm sure this will get their quick attention & a return to the factory for a fix.

FWIW
 
micro beads huh. Been my and another guys experience when removing an Axis barrel (& its barrel nut) from the receiver , you'll find the micro beads lodged in the threads. I had a heck of a time unthreading the barrel nut from barrel due to these beads. Once I'd removed the barrel nut I then spent a fair amount of time removing those beads stuck in its threads.

Other guy I mentioned had rebarreled a couple of Axis rifles before me. When I told him of the bead problem I'd encountered, he chuckled and said, forgot to mention them to you. He thought they might be something Savage used to keep the barrel from loosening.
 
Great info - thanks for the feedback and warnings on the over pressure.

I respect your opinions and I am taking it to a gunsmith today.

The ammo does match the stamp on the barrel - I assume the receiver is correct, too.

After looking at some of the cartridges this morning I did see a similar mark on many of them so I assume there is an anomaly in the receiver that may explain many of the issues. I'm not qualified to deal with head spacing and chamber work but trust my gunsmith will be able to deal with the issue.

Stagpanther - we don't get to shoot as often as we'd like to, so while it is 2 years old it has less than 200 rounds through it.

Thanks again for the feedback; I'll follow-up when I have an answer.

Rob
 
Great info - thanks for the feedback and warnings on the over pressure.

I respect your opinions and I am taking it to a gunsmith today.

The ammo does match the stamp on the barrel - I assume the receiver is correct, too.

After looking at some of the cartridges this morning I did see a similar mark on many of them so I assume there is an anomaly in the receiver that may explain many of the issues. I'm not qualified to deal with head spacing and chamber work but trust my gunsmith will be able to deal with the issue.

Stagpanther - we don't get to shoot as often as we'd like to, so while it is 2 years old it has less than 200 rounds through it.

Thanks again for the feedback; I'll follow-up when I have an answer.

Rob
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Good luck. Hopefully something fairly simple. The advantage of sending it directly to Savage is that if there really is a problem with headspacing or chamber (very rare--but does happen) you might have an entirely new rifle sent to you--it's worth at least a call to them.
 
Update

The trip to Bolsa Gunsmithing was not good. When I called yesterday afternoon they said they would look at it right away and would make every effort to have it ready for next Wednesday unless it was catastrophic or a parts issue. When I arrived the story was a little different...

After using and referring them exclusively for 30 years, today was the 3rd (and final) time I've been made to feel like a dick while I'm there because I am not a gun expert. It didn't help that there were 5 people behind the counter and 1 guy on the phone...but all were too busy shooting the -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- while I sat there with my thumb in my ass. And when another customer walked in they went straight to him while I continued to enjoy my thumb.

After dropping it off and driving away, I decided I was done with them and returned to pick it up and called Savage instead.

Savage customer service was good. They are sending me a shipping label and will look at and probably repair the gun, even though it's out of warranty. They said that the blast material was probably a separate incident from the over pressure issue, which I can't argue about. They mentioned that the blasting occurs after the barrel is secured so there shouldn't be any media in the threads.

Meanwhile....and I know this will be surprise to most given what I've read about over pressure, but Savage said that the gun was still safe to shoot as long as nothing is lodged in the barrel.

However, I have no plans to shoot it and will be shipping it to Savage soon. Meanwhile, I need to find my daughter another gun for her hunt next week or put her on my .30-06

Thanks again for your feedback on the issue; I'll follow-up again when it's all resolved.

Rob
 
I'd not mess with it.

Send it to Savage... along with several of the cases with blown/dropped primers/expanded pockets.
Something is very wrong.

/Mike
 
Good news in that I found a gunsmith willing to make the effort to look at and possibly deal with the issue before her hunt. No guaranty of course that it can be remedied without substantial work, in which case it will end up going back to Savage. But at least someone qualified and experienced with Savage will make the effort and make sure it's safe.

Thanks again and I'll follow-up when I know more.
 
it just doesn't seem like an issue that would "arise" from a rifle you have previously used without issue. 200 rounds isn't a lot, but I don't see anyway this could not occur from the start, unless as others have said, there is something very wrong. If this isn't just something hat can be scraped off wih a firm copper brushing, then I don't know how this could get melded to your chamber 200 rounds later. I'm in the "call savage" camp, I would skip the gunsmith entirely since this may be an issue that Savage needs to address first-hand and not after someone went to work with a chamber polish. sounds like you probably have another option for your daughter, even if it makes her a little sad.......hell I can't do anything that makes my son sad either, nevermind, polish it and try again:)
 
If it worked before, as it appears from the description, I'm going to guess it's got a very rough barrel (my FP10 came like that) that takes a lot more cleaning effort with standard bore cleaners than most folks would be willing to make. It may then have finally built up enough copper fouling to raise the peak pressure substantially. This, in turn, may be expanding the metal enough to cause some of the blasting media to work its way through and out of the barrel threads.

In this case, the solution would be cleaning with a more sophisticated chemistry. Possibly some light firelapping later to smooth the bore a little would be in order. Search the forum for cleaning threads to get ideas about this, but my personal recommendation is to use KG-12 for a heavy copper deposit, followed by any bore cleaner that will turn blue in the presence of copper and brass, in order to discern when none is left. I use a small travel pump sprayer to pump two or three squirts down into the chamber and allow it to run down to the muzzle, then let it sit for 20 minutes. That removes a LOT of copper. It rarely needs to be repeated, but if your gun has copper fouling as heavy as the symptoms would require then you might need to repeat a couple of times.

As to the chip in the rear of the chamber, it appears to be too shallow to matter so long as the pressure isn't excessive. Once the bore is clear (assuming my guess is verified), check for the case marks again. If it still marks them, save the Savage return label and send it too them after the hunting season is over.
 
Meanwhile....and I know this will be surprise to most given what I've read about over pressure, but Savage said that the gun was still safe to shoot as long as nothing is lodged in the barrel.
Click to expand...
Savage (like Ruger) is usually pretty good about servicing their products--neither of them want malfunctioning weapons of their's out there in the wild. Are you sure that you got this advice from an actual engineer? When I call service centers I usually get a customer service lady who--while is very helpful or knowledgeable--I have a hard time believing she would pass this kind of advice on based on what you've said here without consulting an engineer. If they said it was safe to continue to use--what reasons did they give you to assure you of that given the signs of over-pressure? Getting debris into a chamber is pretty easy to do--especially if a cartridge picks it up prior to going into battery. Unless your barrel is loose--which is hard to imagine since the barrel nut is usually VERY tight is hard for me to imagine how manufacturing waste got in there after a few years of use and cleaning--however light and infrequent that may have been.
 
If it's blowing primers/expanding pockets as described with factory ammunition,
it is -- ipso facto -- "not safe to shoot."

Notwithstanding UncleNick's counsel to clean the H-E-Double[Copper]-Toothpicks
out of it, the rifle's talking to you as best it can.
 
Thank you, I respect your feedback and will not be firing.

Meeting with a gunsmith this afternoon and will follow-up again then.
 
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