Rob Pincus
New member
Hey boys, I'm back from Turkey-Land.. Interesting thread, and I am glad that some of you have played the role that I will also choose.. Moderation. I don't think the issue is as clear cut as some would make it out to be.
This is a long one, so grab some popcorn:
While it is true that many influential people are hypocritical, it is also true that many less-influential people (ie- US) have the choice of looking at the glass as half-full or half-empty.
As for Mel's movies, the themes of independence, self-sufficiency, responsibility for one's actions and for one's safety, etc, are almost always exemplified in his movies. I, too , was offended by the anti-gun posters in LW4, but I also saw a whole bunch of scenes where a man used a gun to defend himself or others.
Stallone's infamous comments were not exactly taken out of context, but they were given a whole lot more attention than his subsequent public retraction of the statement about confiscating guns. While he was in Europe filming a movie his "bosses" for that film were commenting on a shooting back here in the states in front of a reporter and he was caught between a rock and a hard place as far as what to say. He agreed with a statement about confiscation under certain circumstances and did say something about it being "a zoo" over here. No, he did not specifiy the circumstances. He could've meant confiscation from school kids, heroin addicts, or middle aged White males... he didn't specifiy.. but he did later retract the statement as it was reported.
Meanwhile, he is an avid shooter and so is his brother. Sylvester has a range in his home and an extensive collection.
Schwarzeneggar hosted an shotgun tournament last year that benefited Ducks Unlimited. A schedule conflict kept me from attending, but I was told that he was very pro-gun with the press in attendance.. it got zero national exposure that I am aware of.
Tom Selleck, Eric Estrada, Robert Stack, Robert Urich have hosted events and shoot regularly. To hear Robert Stack talk about the good ole days in hollywood when Bogart and Sinatra used to have friends over to shoot skeet, etc... is awesome. Stack was a Good Medalist on the US Olympic Shooting team in his day.
Many Country Music entertainers (including Aaron Tippon, John Anderson, Tracey Bird, Alabama, The Mandrell Sisters, Sammy Kershaw, Razzy Bailey, Blake & Brian, Porter Wagoner, The Hager Twins, Skip Ewing, Sahne McAnally, Reba MacEntire, Wade Kimes, Jimmy C. Newman, Billy Joe Royal, Jeanie Seely, Dave Rowland, Crystal Gayle, Jim Ed Brown, Charlie Wlker, Linda Davis, The Wilkinson's Teri Clark) are shooters and appear at or host many events throughout the year to promote shooting and hunting.
Aaron Tippon put on a free concert two nights ago at The National Wild Turkey Federation's convention.
Chuck Yeager and Norman Shwarzkopf are regulars at many hunting and shooting related events.
Jeff Foxworthy is a regular on Realtree Camouflage's videos and television programs and is an avid hunter.
Last week, Dennis Miller did one of his notorious "Rants" on the death of accountability in the wake of the Lawsuits against the gun industry. While he has never been accused of being a pro-gun radical, he did plainly come down against the idea that guns are inherently evil or that anyone but people who use guns illegally should be held accountable.
Leslie Esterbrook (Police Academy Movies' tough girl) has her own series of "how-to" Shooting Videos and competes regularly at Shotgun events.
Several professional wrestlers (Including The Bossman, Mr. Perfect, and The Droz) have particpated in The Buckmaster Classic celebrity hunting tournament.
Professional sports personalities including Stoney Case, Jay Novecek, Jeff Ballard, Al Del Greco, Wade Boggs, Daryl Lamonica, Dave Butz and Charles Davis have all been involved in events that I have attended in the past year.
Marshall Teague (Roadhouse), Gary Chapman (Prime time Country), Robert Carridine (Coming Home), Lu Parker (Miss USA '94), Lane Smith (Louis & Clark), John Laughlin (The Rock), Dick Hardwich (Star Search), T.J. Klay (Western Flyer), Vincent Guastaferro (NYPD Blue), Ron Masak (Murder, She Wrote), Robert Miranda (The untouchables), Charles NApier (The Blues Brothers, Cable Guy, Silence of the Lambs), Johnny DiSanti (Batteries Not Included), Kimberlin Brown (The Bold & The Beautiful), Shari Moss (On Deadly Ground, Mad About You),Jess Walton (Young & Restless), Ken Hanes (Bold & Beautiful), Stephan Henneberry (Amercian Gladiators, "Tower"), and Bruce Channel (writer) may not be the most recognizable names in the industry, but most of them have instantly recognizable faces. They have all particpated in shooting events around the country.
Thomas Boggs was recently listed in George magazine's list of the 50 Most Influential People in Washignton and the bio included a note about his private duck hunts being a "rite of passage" for congressman who hunt. Patton-Boggs is THE lobbying firm in D.C., and it is also a successful nationwide law firm with offices in many major cities. They represented the Tobacco industry during its recent troubles. I had the privilege of hunting with Tom at his farm in Maryland last year and his collection of hunting stories and pictures would instill hope in even the most jaded anti-washingtonian. His sister is Cokie Roberts, famous journalist and talking head, another hunter and another person listed in the 50 Most Influential.
I can't begin to list the number of Congressman and Senators who are shooters, but check out the Congressional Sportsman's Caucus' website to see a list of that organizations members. http://www.house.gov/tanner/congress.htm
Ted Nugent has his own weekly hunting show and video series.
George Bush (Sr. & Jr.) and Ross Perot all bird hunt at the same lodge in central Texas and have been featured in various publications as hunters.
Terry Labonte, Dave Marcis, Dale Earnhardt, Richard Childress, Rick Mast and Ted Musgrave have all represented NASCAR at various shooting or hunting events.
Ted Turner and Jane Fonda have loosened their "elitist" attitude towards hunting and shooting recently.. inviting reporters to their private hunting ranches for interviews and giving them the option of talking about the hunting that goes on their. I don't think anyone has covered it yet in the national press though... go figure.
Harvey Keitel, Curt Gowdy, members of The Oak Ridge Boys, members of Aerosmith, Lou Ferigno, and Bo Derek (in addtion to many people previously mentioned) have all attended at least one trade show that I have been at in the past year.
Furthermore, the outdoor industry has created its own contemporary celebrities, with guys like Bill Jordan, Bill Ruger, Jackie Bushman, Buck McNeely, Gaston Glock and countless TV show hosts and businessmen that have recognizable names and/or faces that extend beyond just the shooting community.
So you see, there are a lot of famous people out there who are pro-gun. In fact, I'd like to see a list of celebrities who activiley participate in ANTI-GUN events. I'll bet the list isn't very impressive.
This post only involves people that I have been directly involved with through one event/organization or another, so there have got to be dozens more names out there. If someone can get a hold of a copy of a program from The Hollywood Celebrity Shoot (formerly The Charlton Heston Celebrity Shoot), they would find literally hundreds of actors and hollywood personalities not listed here. That event has been held for several years in Southern California and has enjoyed a phenominal attendance, given that it is a "local" event.
As I started to say, we, as gun owners and hunters, can look at the positive or the negative. Personally, I'll take the positive outlook when it comes to Hollywood. Until everyone who owns a gun on the silver screen is arrested and put in a concentration camp or until every plot line has a submissive populace or main character that is rewarded by being a sheeple, I'll keep watching characters, specifically "heroes", that act independently, take care of themselves and other less capable characters, using guns against the bad-guys and choose see them as a sign that guns are still as much a part of the American psyche and tradition as automobiles, good lookin' women and cheap beer.
When that changes, when the gun is equated with a swastika, when the "heroes" lay down their guns and everything works out okay, when TNN cancels all the hunting shows (instead of adding more every season), and when atheletes stop accepting invitations to participate in public hunts... that's when I'll consider joining the hollywood boycott and trashing all celebrities as hypocrites.
------------------
-Essayons
[This message has been edited by Rob (edited February 22, 1999).]
This is a long one, so grab some popcorn:
While it is true that many influential people are hypocritical, it is also true that many less-influential people (ie- US) have the choice of looking at the glass as half-full or half-empty.
As for Mel's movies, the themes of independence, self-sufficiency, responsibility for one's actions and for one's safety, etc, are almost always exemplified in his movies. I, too , was offended by the anti-gun posters in LW4, but I also saw a whole bunch of scenes where a man used a gun to defend himself or others.
Stallone's infamous comments were not exactly taken out of context, but they were given a whole lot more attention than his subsequent public retraction of the statement about confiscating guns. While he was in Europe filming a movie his "bosses" for that film were commenting on a shooting back here in the states in front of a reporter and he was caught between a rock and a hard place as far as what to say. He agreed with a statement about confiscation under certain circumstances and did say something about it being "a zoo" over here. No, he did not specifiy the circumstances. He could've meant confiscation from school kids, heroin addicts, or middle aged White males... he didn't specifiy.. but he did later retract the statement as it was reported.
Meanwhile, he is an avid shooter and so is his brother. Sylvester has a range in his home and an extensive collection.
Schwarzeneggar hosted an shotgun tournament last year that benefited Ducks Unlimited. A schedule conflict kept me from attending, but I was told that he was very pro-gun with the press in attendance.. it got zero national exposure that I am aware of.
Tom Selleck, Eric Estrada, Robert Stack, Robert Urich have hosted events and shoot regularly. To hear Robert Stack talk about the good ole days in hollywood when Bogart and Sinatra used to have friends over to shoot skeet, etc... is awesome. Stack was a Good Medalist on the US Olympic Shooting team in his day.
Many Country Music entertainers (including Aaron Tippon, John Anderson, Tracey Bird, Alabama, The Mandrell Sisters, Sammy Kershaw, Razzy Bailey, Blake & Brian, Porter Wagoner, The Hager Twins, Skip Ewing, Sahne McAnally, Reba MacEntire, Wade Kimes, Jimmy C. Newman, Billy Joe Royal, Jeanie Seely, Dave Rowland, Crystal Gayle, Jim Ed Brown, Charlie Wlker, Linda Davis, The Wilkinson's Teri Clark) are shooters and appear at or host many events throughout the year to promote shooting and hunting.
Aaron Tippon put on a free concert two nights ago at The National Wild Turkey Federation's convention.
Chuck Yeager and Norman Shwarzkopf are regulars at many hunting and shooting related events.
Jeff Foxworthy is a regular on Realtree Camouflage's videos and television programs and is an avid hunter.
Last week, Dennis Miller did one of his notorious "Rants" on the death of accountability in the wake of the Lawsuits against the gun industry. While he has never been accused of being a pro-gun radical, he did plainly come down against the idea that guns are inherently evil or that anyone but people who use guns illegally should be held accountable.
Leslie Esterbrook (Police Academy Movies' tough girl) has her own series of "how-to" Shooting Videos and competes regularly at Shotgun events.
Several professional wrestlers (Including The Bossman, Mr. Perfect, and The Droz) have particpated in The Buckmaster Classic celebrity hunting tournament.
Professional sports personalities including Stoney Case, Jay Novecek, Jeff Ballard, Al Del Greco, Wade Boggs, Daryl Lamonica, Dave Butz and Charles Davis have all been involved in events that I have attended in the past year.
Marshall Teague (Roadhouse), Gary Chapman (Prime time Country), Robert Carridine (Coming Home), Lu Parker (Miss USA '94), Lane Smith (Louis & Clark), John Laughlin (The Rock), Dick Hardwich (Star Search), T.J. Klay (Western Flyer), Vincent Guastaferro (NYPD Blue), Ron Masak (Murder, She Wrote), Robert Miranda (The untouchables), Charles NApier (The Blues Brothers, Cable Guy, Silence of the Lambs), Johnny DiSanti (Batteries Not Included), Kimberlin Brown (The Bold & The Beautiful), Shari Moss (On Deadly Ground, Mad About You),Jess Walton (Young & Restless), Ken Hanes (Bold & Beautiful), Stephan Henneberry (Amercian Gladiators, "Tower"), and Bruce Channel (writer) may not be the most recognizable names in the industry, but most of them have instantly recognizable faces. They have all particpated in shooting events around the country.
Thomas Boggs was recently listed in George magazine's list of the 50 Most Influential People in Washignton and the bio included a note about his private duck hunts being a "rite of passage" for congressman who hunt. Patton-Boggs is THE lobbying firm in D.C., and it is also a successful nationwide law firm with offices in many major cities. They represented the Tobacco industry during its recent troubles. I had the privilege of hunting with Tom at his farm in Maryland last year and his collection of hunting stories and pictures would instill hope in even the most jaded anti-washingtonian. His sister is Cokie Roberts, famous journalist and talking head, another hunter and another person listed in the 50 Most Influential.
I can't begin to list the number of Congressman and Senators who are shooters, but check out the Congressional Sportsman's Caucus' website to see a list of that organizations members. http://www.house.gov/tanner/congress.htm
Ted Nugent has his own weekly hunting show and video series.
George Bush (Sr. & Jr.) and Ross Perot all bird hunt at the same lodge in central Texas and have been featured in various publications as hunters.
Terry Labonte, Dave Marcis, Dale Earnhardt, Richard Childress, Rick Mast and Ted Musgrave have all represented NASCAR at various shooting or hunting events.
Ted Turner and Jane Fonda have loosened their "elitist" attitude towards hunting and shooting recently.. inviting reporters to their private hunting ranches for interviews and giving them the option of talking about the hunting that goes on their. I don't think anyone has covered it yet in the national press though... go figure.
Harvey Keitel, Curt Gowdy, members of The Oak Ridge Boys, members of Aerosmith, Lou Ferigno, and Bo Derek (in addtion to many people previously mentioned) have all attended at least one trade show that I have been at in the past year.
Furthermore, the outdoor industry has created its own contemporary celebrities, with guys like Bill Jordan, Bill Ruger, Jackie Bushman, Buck McNeely, Gaston Glock and countless TV show hosts and businessmen that have recognizable names and/or faces that extend beyond just the shooting community.
So you see, there are a lot of famous people out there who are pro-gun. In fact, I'd like to see a list of celebrities who activiley participate in ANTI-GUN events. I'll bet the list isn't very impressive.
This post only involves people that I have been directly involved with through one event/organization or another, so there have got to be dozens more names out there. If someone can get a hold of a copy of a program from The Hollywood Celebrity Shoot (formerly The Charlton Heston Celebrity Shoot), they would find literally hundreds of actors and hollywood personalities not listed here. That event has been held for several years in Southern California and has enjoyed a phenominal attendance, given that it is a "local" event.
As I started to say, we, as gun owners and hunters, can look at the positive or the negative. Personally, I'll take the positive outlook when it comes to Hollywood. Until everyone who owns a gun on the silver screen is arrested and put in a concentration camp or until every plot line has a submissive populace or main character that is rewarded by being a sheeple, I'll keep watching characters, specifically "heroes", that act independently, take care of themselves and other less capable characters, using guns against the bad-guys and choose see them as a sign that guns are still as much a part of the American psyche and tradition as automobiles, good lookin' women and cheap beer.
When that changes, when the gun is equated with a swastika, when the "heroes" lay down their guns and everything works out okay, when TNN cancels all the hunting shows (instead of adding more every season), and when atheletes stop accepting invitations to participate in public hunts... that's when I'll consider joining the hollywood boycott and trashing all celebrities as hypocrites.
------------------
-Essayons
[This message has been edited by Rob (edited February 22, 1999).]
