Medium-sized .380 ACP pistols

K

kannonk

New member
I know I posted like "fan threads" for the .32 ACP because I find the idea of low recoil and accuracy appealing but because those are a bit harder to find, I decided to also make a list of medium-sized .380 ACP pistols. (I still prefer the idea of going with a .32 although I compiled this list in case I could test different brands in .380 at a range if they're easier to find than .32s. I could then hunt for the .32 in the brand that I want later.)

A medium-sized .380 may be for people who are recoil-sensitive (in a pocket pistol) or who may want more accuracy in a .380. By the way, if someone really did want to make a .32 ACP handgun more lethal, they could always choose the Lehigh ammumition made by Underwood: Underwood https://underwoodammo.com/shop/32-acp-50-grain-xtreme-cavitator/ It's also available in .380 ACP as well: Underwood https://underwoodammo.com/shop/380-acp-90-grain-xtreme-penetrator/

Here's a Youtube video to show a .32 ACP ballistics gel test with Underwood ammo: Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf-IF1emoJI And here's a video showing a .380 ACP ballistics gel test with Underwood ammo: Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw

(I personally prefer the idea of round full metal jacket or FMJ bullets for penetration in case someone is wearing heavy leather etc. Some people alter each in a magazine. Also, in my opinion, if flat-nosed .380 FMJ bullets can severely overpenetrate as stated in the second video, one way to go around this is to go down to a .32 ACP round nose FMJ.) :)

Browning 1911-380
Browning http://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/1911-380/current-production.html

Beretta Cheetah 84 FS or 85 FS (occasionally imported)
Beretta http://www.beretta.com/en/serie-80/

Walther PPK/S and PK380 (the PPK/S apparently has heavier recoil)
Walther http://www.waltherarms.com/handguns/ppk/ppk-ppks/
Walther http://www.waltherarms.com/handguns/pk380/

EEA Witness Pavona (actually a Tanfoglio)
EEA http://eaacorp.com/index.php/guns/handguns/witness-pavona-polymer-compact-by-tanfolgio-26

Grand Power P380
Grand Power http://www.grandpower.eu/kategoria-16-clanok-194-detail-p380-#ad-image-0

Bersa Thunder 380
Bersa https://bersa.eagleimportsinc.com/bersa/firearms/thunder-series

Llama Micromax (steel for those who want even less recoil)
Eagle Imports https://eagleimportsinc.com/llama/firearms/micromax

Tisas Fatih 13
Zenith Firearms https://zenithfirearms.com/product/fatih-13-black/

Armscor Baby Rock 380 (23.5 oz, similar to the Llama)
Armscor http://armscor.com/firearms/bbr-series/baby-rock-380/

Glock makes the model 42, Sig Sauer makes the P238, Kahr the CT380, Colt the .380 Mustang, Ruger the LC380 , Smith & Wesson the M&P Bodyguard 380, Remington the RM380, Cobra Enterprises the Patriot .380 (and CA + Freedom Series), Jimenez Arms J.A. 380 and Kimber the Micro 380 but these are all pretty much pocket pistols. I couldn't really find models for Heckler&Koch, Sarsilmaz or CZ (the 83 is on the "limited production" list). Taurus also makes some with the lasers on it if that tickles your fancy. lol Also Kel-Tec makes a pretty small and light model called the P-3AT and Seecamp makes the LWS .380 "premium pocket gun". And Bond Arms sells a .380 barrel for their Derringers. Accu-Tek makes 3 models (a bit similar in look to the Walther PPK).
 
I'm not especially "recoil sensitive" and my thinking is that if I'm going to carry a "medium" sized pistol for self-defense, it will be chambered in 9mm; not .380. When I do carry a .380 concealed it is as light-weight and compact as practical (mine is the Ruger LCP) and I agree with your choice of bullet configuration: hardball for optimum penetration and reliability.
 
The trouble is...

Many "medium" sized .380s are blow-backs. That means surprisingly harsh recoil for a little dickens like the .380; and quite the heavy recoil spring.

Those factors are important. Often the reason we're looking at a "medium sized .380" (instead of a small .380 or medium 9mm) is the user might be a bit recoil shy; or might have weaker hands (from his/her general disposition; or a previous injury or medical condition; or simple aging).

Now, true: the Beretta 86 at least has the tilt-up barrel, which pretty much eliminates any need to rack the slide when loading or unloading. But the recoil is still, well, snappy.

Modern locked-breech .380s are the way to go, IMO. Would include Colt Mustang, Kimber Micro, SIG P238, and Glock 42.

(If anyone could find one, the HK P7K3 was a delayed blowback with a great trigger and a manageable recoil spring; problem is that the delay is produced by an expensive hydraulic buffer which wears out, and for which there are no longer any replacements.)

There are a number of "small" locked-breech .380s these days; the locked breech does away with the need for heavy slides. The ones I listed are on the big side of small.
:)
 
IDK, I don't find my Bersa Thunder 380 Plus to be snappy in the least, and even fully loaded with 15+1 (Hornady XTP's) it still feels just as light as either my CZ 100 or Glock 19 when they're empty.
 
Many "medium" sized .380s are blow-backs. That means surprisingly harsh recoil for a little dickens like the .380; and quite the heavy recoil spring.
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Thats been my take on the small 380s. I just didn't like shooting them. I would rather have a small to medium 9mm.
 
I was surprised how harsh my Cheetah 85 was to shoot. A very easy gun to shoot accurately, though.

The P238 can be shot all day long with no discomfort. But it takes some practice to shoot well due to the very short sight radius.
 
My Beretta 84F is my go to 380, it get a lot of my CC duties and does not feel nearly as snappy as a pocket 380.
 
My Bersa Thunder definitely does have a little snap. It's a combination of the relatively light weight, straight blowback design, and thin grip. I definitely get a little bit of stinging hand if I'm shooting it for a long time. No big deal for a couple of magazines though.
 
My Colt Government Model is excellent. It fires from a locked breech, and is actually medium-sized and made of steel. The recoil is very easy.

I like my CZ83 a lot, too. The trigger is very good. It is accurate. I like shooting it. It feels good in my hand. They are great guns.

My Beretta 84 is nice to shoot, too. It doesn't feel quite as smooth as the CZ, but it's still a very nice gun.

I got a Russian commercial Makarov in the late 1980's and it is a brick. The trigger isn't as nice as the others, but it is accurate and has yet to malfunction. It is a very simple and sturdy machine. My grandchildren will probably be shooting it long after I'm gone.

The newest is a Sig P230. It sure feels good in my hand. It's light and well-balanced. I would have to say, though, that I am not as accurate with it as the others. It's really a bit too small for my very big hands, and the aluminum frame isn't as recoil-friendly as it could be.

I like my 380 "service pistols". They are fun to shoot and I certainly wouldn't feel unarmed carrying one.
 
Best value: Bersa Thunder

Best shooter: Sig P238

Best cool factor: Beretta Cheetah model 86 (or a model 85)
 
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Just my opinion... two cents...

if it really is medium-sized, rather than a pocket pistol, the recoil is still going to be moderate for most shooters even if it is blowback rather than locking breech.

If someone jusr can't abide recoil, a 32 magnum revolver is a good choice - they can just shoot 32 long if they have to. In 380 I would find an example of the aforementioned Colt Government Model. It is bigger than the Mustang or P238 - it is actually medium-sized. It's also steel and fires from a locked breech. My daughter dislikes recoil and has been cheerfully shooting it since she was nine years old.
 
The G42 is a pretty large 380 auto that makes a fine belt sized gun and good shooter at the range since it's so large.
 
Micro Desert Eagle. Ive got one. My Beretta 84 is a nice mid sized Hi-cap pistol.

The Micro Desert Eagle isn’t a bad gun. It was initially designed and sold by ZVI in the Czech Republic as the ‘Kevin’—a pistol too small to be legally imported into the country under U.S. law.
 
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The Sig P290rs in 380 acp is a very soft shooting pistol. The slide can be racked with minimal effort. It's a very good choice for the recoil sensitive or those who find it hard to rack the slide on a semiauto. The Walther PK380 is another choice but I don't have any experience with it.
 
"...it will be chambered in 9mm; not .380."
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I understand this is your personal choice but there's something I find puzzling about this. People say the FBI standard is 12 to 18 inches of penetration. Well, the Lehigh in .32 ACP did this in ballistics gel. The difference in bullet diameter is only about 1mm. The only thing I can think of is the difference in energy (or maybe also the size of the cavity). I assume that a 70 grain bullet and 115 grain bullet at the same velocity will have different energy levels but is it that different? I mean the statistics on fatality rates (I posted a link in one of my .32 ACP threads) wasn't that different between the .22 lr and 9mm.

"Many "medium" sized .380s are blow-backs. That means surprisingly harsh recoil for a little dickens like the .380; and quite the heavy recoil spring."
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I still have more to learn about handguns but is there anyone here who would know why larger caliber guns are still blowbacks?
"Modern locked-breech .380s are the way to go, IMO. Would include Colt Mustang, Kimber Micro, SIG P238, and Glock 42."
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I'm still learning so thanks for the info. But I thought the Browning 1911-380 has a locked breech.

"I was surprised how harsh my Cheetah 85 was to shoot."
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See, even if I have a lack of experience with real guns, I'm still surprised the .32 ACP isn't more popular (because of comments like this).
 
why larger caliber guns are still blowbacks?
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I guess the simple answer is: they're not.

In the olden days, blow-backs had a LOT of advantages, at least for manufacturers: simple design, therefore fewer parts, less hand-fitting, quicker assembly. All lead to lower cost.

And that's where the advantage to the consumer is: lower cost often translates to lower price. (In fact, there are even 9mm blow-backs, like the Hi-Point, if you don't mind a huge slide. Same primary advantage: low cost.) Simpler design can also mean more dependable: fewer parts to break.

These days, however, "modern" designs for the .380 and even .32 are typically locked-breech (or, for something like the Seecamp, delayed blowback).

Older designs persist for the reasons mentioned; primarily low cost. So my "simple answer" is not quite accurate; simple answers seldom are.
Browning 1911-380 has a locked breech.
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It does. My list was not meant to be exhaustive.
 
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Did he Lehigh also expand reliably? Penetration is fine with FMJ but most people are looking for penetration and expansion. The FBI standard also involves shooting through layers of denim among other things. Also I haven't shot a lot of these blowback pistols but the one I have shot is a Colt M1908 pocket hammerless, that little gun doesn't have recoil, not really. You can certainly tell a round fired but it barely moves in your hands, such a sweet shooter and sweet looking pistol.

And as for .32 vs .380 vs. 9mm bigger is generally better as long as you can handle it, but with guns like the LCP and Bodyguard around where it'll fire a .380 with good penetration and expansion with tame recoil I don't see the need for a .32 other than for fun.
 
Many "medium" sized .380s are blow-backs. That means surprisingly harsh recoil for a little dickens like the .380; and quite the heavy recoil spring.
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This was my initial thought as well. Almost all of the mid-sized .380 pistols are blowback operated and are going to have harsher recoil than similar-sized 9x19mm pistols that almost universally use a Browning short-recoil system (or some other locking barrel design).

There are a few .380 pistols that use a Browning short-recoil system, but most of them are modern compact designs (Ruger LCP & LC380, for example).

The OP indicates a desire for:

A medium-sized .380 may be for people who are recoil-sensitive (in a pocket pistol) or who may want more accuracy in a .380
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...but there are not many options that exist.

Because 9x19mm is so much more effective, recoil is typically lower in a locked-breech design (compared to typical blowback .380s), and ammo is less expensive, there isn't really any market demand for mid-sized .380 pistols (outside of markets where pistols chambered in "military" rounds like 9x19mm aren't allowed by law).


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